[gui-talk] Multiple platforms and Operating Systems

Rob Tabor rob.tabor at sbcglobal.net
Tue Jul 13 17:17:21 UTC 2010 

Hi, Trevor, Steve and list.

How does one acquire a copy of Latex, is there a cost, and can docs you 
create via Latex be converted to MS-Word? And what kind of learning curve is 
involved in learning to use Latex? Thanks in advance.

Best regards
Rob Tabor & White Cane Raúl
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Multiple platforms and Operating Systems


> Trev,
>
> I am not arguing with anything you are saying here.  In fact, a good case 
> can be made that a blind person will
> have more control over formatting using a markup language than we will 
> have using Word.  Where it gets more
> difficult is when one has to update documents produced by others or work 
> with others on the same document.  I
> also think it gets trickier when the person producing a document is a 
> casual computer user and needs help from
> co-workers.  For most of the documents I write at home in my personal 
> life, Word is overkill and its
> complexity can make creating simple documents more difficult rather than 
> easier.  Being an old math person, I
> want to learn LATEX at some point.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:14:43 -0400, Trevor Saunders wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>
>>On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 10:50:20AM -0500, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>>> Trevor and others,
>>>
>>> I thought it made sense to change the subject line.  This is an 
>>> interesting topic.
>>>
>>> to add to my previous post, we have occasionally experienced formatting 
>>> issues when converting from Open
>>> Office to Microsoft Office formats that seems not to involve 
>>> accessibility in any way.  In one case, a
> complex
>>> single-page document in Open office converted to an Office  document 
>>> having 16 pages.  My daughter was able
> to
>>> edit the document in Microsoft Word on a Windows machine fairly quickly 
>>> to restore the format, though.
>
>>I've only heard about this the other way, microsoft -> open office.
>>What I meant was in the case that a complicated document doesn't
>>appear properly in open office I believe it may be that while open
>>office has a correct model of the document that it provides to the
>>access api, but incorrectly renders the document.  I don't know if
>>that is the case, and haven't put much energy into figuring it out,
>>but think it may be true since I believe I remenber seeing something
>>like the situation I just described.
>
>>> However, an additional point I'd like to make here about mixing 
>>> platforms is that I think there is great
> value
>>> in using the same software as one's co-workers or as is used by other 
>>> students particularly in high school
> and
>>> before.  Even though the ability to transfer documents is pretty good, I 
>>> feel strongly yet that using
>>> Microsoft Word to create ODF documents when one's co-workers are using 
>>> Open Office, for example, is still
> not
>>> something that we should accept as an accessible solution to the fact 
>>> that Open Office is apparently still
> not
>>> very accessible under Windows.  Further, if a school uses a MAC but does 
>>> a good bit of work using Microsoft
>>> Word for the MAC, serious consideration needs to be given to whether a 
>>> student should use a MAC where
>>> Microsoft Word is not accessible or whether they are better off with a 
>>> Windows computer but can then use
>>> Microsoft Office products.  Besides the fact that complex documents may 
>>> not convert, I find it very helpful
> to
>>> get information on how to do something from my co-workers, even if they 
>>> do it with the mouse.  It can help
> me
>>> zero in on what I need to do.  These are not simple questions, 
>>> unfortunately,, but the situation will get
>>> better over time.
>
>>I'll agree  that we shouldn't accept another program as access.
>>However as a general principal, not as a blind person I prefer to
>>use the best tool even if it isn't the popular one.  SO if the
>>alternative program is better even with the conversion required I
>>would rather use that than the common tool.  For example personally I
>>do all my document preperation with latex instead of any word
>>processor.
>
>>Trev
>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:48:58 -0400, Trevor Saunders wrote:
>>>
>>> >Hi,
>>>
>>> >Personally I use linux, but here are some comments on the compatability
>>> >issue.
>>> >open office produces files in the actual microsoft formats, the only
>>> >microsoft format I haven't seen it support is the one for access, and
>>> >when I needed that I found a different utility that could do that.  I
>>> >have heard that openoffice sometimes has trouble formating things from
>>> >word documents correctly, but have never personally seen this, and
>>> >wonder if it is a formating issue that is correct in what the
>>> >accessibility api sees.
>>> >mp3 is a standard format, there are some patent issues I believe, but
>>> >it is standardized and any OS should be ale to deal with it.
>>> >networking is also all standardized protocols (tcp/ip dhcp etc), so it 
>>> >is no suprise
>>> >that a mac can use the same network.
>>> > given a choice I would probably use a networked printer, then you
>>> >shouldn't have to worry about drivers, but hardware may be an issue.
>>>
>>> >Trev
>>>
>>> >On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 08:56:01AM -0500, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>>> >> Rob,
>>> >>
>>> >> These are all good points.  I must say, though, that I was surprised 
>>> >> to find that my Daughter's MAC was
>>> able to connect to our home network and copy files she
>>> >> needed from the Windows computer she had been using and all seemed to 
>>> >> work.  She has e-mailed me files
> from
>>> her MAC prepared both in TextEdit and in Open
>>> >> Office for me to print and they printed all right.  She had to pick a 
>>> >> format in Open Office that
> emulated
>>> Microsoft office or RTF, though, but  it worked.  She saved a
>>> >> song for me in MP3 format on her MAC and put it on a jump drive that 
>>> >> I, in turn, put in my Windows
> laptop
>>> and copied the MP3 file to my computer.  The apple
>>> >> system does use some extra files that are hidden on the MAC, so I had 
>>> >> to sort through what was there to
>>> find the file I wanted.  In short, I would not ignore the
>>> >> compatibility issue, but I have been surprised at what we have been 
>>> >> able to do.  However, I had a little
>>> Dell printer that I was hoping she could use and there just
>>> >> seems no way to get it to work.  In doing some searches, I find that 
>>> >> telling the MAC that the printer is
>>> really a particular Lexmark printer mostly works.  Therefore,
>>> >> hardware compatibility can still be an issue.  However, a Samsung 
>>> >> printer I have seems to work fine on
> the
>>> MAC or on Windows, although it sometimes needs to be
>>> >> reset when changing from one computer to the other.
>>> >>
>>> >> I say all of this only to make the point that some of what I assumed 
>>> >> would be an issue has been less of
> one
>>> than I had thought.
>>> >>
>>> >> Best regards,
>>> >>
>>> >> Steve
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:05:41 -0500,  Rob Tabor wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >Hello Laura and List.
>>> >>
>>> >> >The OS compatibility dilemma is exactly what I tried to address in a 
>>> >> >recent
>>> >> >posting, albeit not as artfully as Laura's observations and 
>>> >> >concerns. Having
>>> >> >no direct experience in the Apple environment I am unable to respond
>>> >> >directly to Laura's question. However, I have heard that the
>>> >> >interoperability problem rears its two janice-like ugly heads, 
>>> >> >namely file
>>> >> >sharing and network interface. The first problem it appears could be
>>> >> >remedied by installing dual OS's which seems like an inefficient way 
>>> >> >to do
>>> >> >your IT, or by making use of a web based collaboration platform such 
>>> >> >as
>>> >> >Google Chrome, which may not yet be ready for prime time. I suspect 
>>> >> >the
>>> >> >network interface problem is much more complicated but I'll defer 
>>> >> >judgment
>>> >> >to the techies among us. Then, as mentioned by Mr. Foret, Linix 
>>> >> >based
>>> >> >systems add a whole new layer of corporate and consumer choices.
>>> >>
>>> >> >I mention these issues to encourage anyone who is entering into the 
>>> >> >personal
>>> >> >IT arena for the first time or who contemplate changing to a 
>>> >> >different OS to
>>> >> >consider these issues carefully and to take the choice that meets 
>>> >> >one's I.T
>>> >> >needs 90 percent of the time.
>>> >>
>>> >> >Best regards,
>>> >> >Rob Tabor and White Cane Ra?l
>>> >> >----- Original Message ----- 
>>> >> >From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>>> >> >To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> >> >Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 6:55 PM
>>> >> >Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Microsoft security essentials
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> >> the only thing that a windowss groupie could say about that is 
>>> >> >> that Mac
>>> >> >> doesn't get viruses because it is not yet popular enough to have 
>>> >> >> the bad
>>> >> >> guys attacking it.  If it has a simple installation protocol, then 
>>> >> >> it is
>>> >> >> all
>>> >> >> the easier for bad stuff to quietly install itself in there as 
>>> >> >> well.
>>> >> >> I don't know enough to say this is plausible, I'm only speaking 
>>> >> >> from
>>> >> >> general
>>> >> >> experience with unix and windows.
>>> >> >> I'm concerned about interoperability between mac and pc.    I have 
>>> >> >> an old
>>> >> >> mac that I hardle ever use.  Virtually all of my activity is on my 
>>> >> >> windows
>>> >> >> laptops.
>>> >> >> I want to move to mac for some activities but worry I won't be 
>>> >> >> able to
>>> >> >> exchange files between mac and pc without compatibility problems.
>>> >> >> Has anyone else resolved this problem?
>>> >> >> TIA
>>> >> >> --le
>>> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> >> >> From: "Mike Arrigo" <n0oxy at charter.net>
>>> >> >> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 6:27 PM
>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Microsoft security essentials
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I suppose what I am about to say could be considered a shot at 
>>> >> >> windows,
>>> >> >> though that is not what I am intending here, indeed, if someone is 
>>> >> >> going
>>> >> >> to
>>> >> >> say something is better than something else, they should provide 
>>> >> >> reasons
>>> >> >> for
>>> >> >> it. So, I will provide a few reasons why I think the mac operating 
>>> >> >> system
>>> >> >> is
>>> >> >> better, aside from the fact that the screen reader is built in of 
>>> >> >> course.
>>> >> >> The fact that it's much more difficult to get a virus on the mac 
>>> >> >> has
>>> >> >> already
>>> >> >> been covered, so let's look at a few other things, particularly 
>>> >> >> with
>>> >> >> applications. As someone who works in tech support, I get several 
>>> >> >> calls
>>> >> >> from
>>> >> >> users attempting to install our software, and receive errors that 
>>> >> >> files
>>> >> >> cannot register, or there are conflicts with different versions of 
>>> >> >> the
>>> >> >> same
>>> >> >> file on someone's system. The mac does not have these problems. In 
>>> >> >> most
>>> >> >> cases, the application is simply copied to the applications 
>>> >> >> folder, and
>>> >> >> when
>>> >> >> it is run, it creates the preference files that it will use. If 
>>> >> >> you want
>>> >> >> to
>>> >> >> uninstall a program, simply delete it from the applications 
>>> >> >> folder, and go
>>> >> >> to your library folder and delete the preference files. No need to 
>>> >> >> worry
>>> >> >> about shared files, and no left over entries cluttering up a 
>>> >> >> registry.
>>> >> >> Clearly, when it comes to applications, the mac operating system 
>>> >> >> has a
>>> >> >> better approach
>>> >> >> On Jul 11, 2010, at 12:40 PM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>> Well, of course, point taken.  Now, here's the funny thing about 
>>> >> >>> that.  I
>>> >> >>> find myself now doing the very thing I said I would never do. 
>>> >> >>> Gives one
>>> >> >>> pause for thought doesn't it?  Looks like you win one.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Sorry about that.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Sincerely,
>>> >> >>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> E-Mail:
>>> >> >>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>> >> >>> Skype Name:
>>> >> >>> barefootedray
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> On Jul 11, 2010, at 10:47 AM, David Andrews wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>> Why is it that Mac users almost always have to take a shot at 
>>> >> >>>> Windows?
>>> >> >>>> If I want religion I will go to church.  If I want to do some 
>>> >> >>>> work I
>>> >> >>>> will
>>> >> >>>> use the computer/OS of my choice!
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> Dave
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> At 08:05 AM 7/10/2010, you wrote:
>>> >> >>>>> Frankly, I'd have to agree with Mike.  IF you feel you must 
>>> >> >>>>> continue to
>>> >> >>>>> run Windows, (for what ever strange reason), Just couldn't 
>>> >> >>>>> resist
>>> >> >>>>> that...yes, Microsoft Security Essentials is indeed a good 
>>> >> >>>>> solution.
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> Sincerely,
>>> >> >>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>                       David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com
>>> >> >>>> Follow me on Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>>> gui-talk mailing list
>>> >> >>>> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>> >> >>>> info for
>>> >> >>>> gui-talk:
>>> >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40comcast.net
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>> gui-talk mailing list
>>> >> >>> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> >> >>> for
>>> >> >>> gui-talk:
>>> >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/n0oxy%40charter.net
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> gui-talk mailing list
>>> >> >> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> >> >> for
>>> >> >> gui-talk:
>>> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> gui-talk mailing list
>>> >> >> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> >> >> for
>>> >> >> gui-talk:
>>> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> >_______________________________________________
>>> >> >gui-talk mailing list
>>> >> >gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> >> >for gui-talk:
>>> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> gui-talk mailing list
>>> >> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> >> gui-talk:
>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/trev.saunders%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> >_______________________________________________
>>> >gui-talk mailing list
>>> >gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> >gui-talk:
>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gui-talk mailing list
>>> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> gui-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/trev.saunders%40gmail.com
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>gui-talk mailing list
>>gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>gui-talk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gui-talk mailing list
> gui-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gui-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> gui-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/gui-talk_nfbnet.org/rob.tabor%40sbcglobal.net

More information about the GUI-Talk mailing list