[gui-talk] Multiple platforms and Operating Systems

Tue Jul 13 22:13:30 UTC 2010

Hi,

there are several programs out there that will do the marking up of
raw tech to printable forms, I'm not sure of a windows one off hand,
but google seems to have a reasonable amount of information on the
subject.  As for ms word it is probably possible somehow, but I've
usually gone for pdf since I was just going to print stuff anyway.

Trev

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:17:21PM -0500,  Rob Tabor wrote:
> Hi, Trevor, Steve and list.
> 
> How does one acquire a copy of Latex, is there a cost, and can docs
> you create via Latex be converted to MS-Word? And what kind of
> learning curve is involved in learning to use Latex? Thanks in
> advance.
> 
> Best regards
> Rob Tabor & White Cane Ra?l
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson"
> <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 11:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Multiple platforms and Operating Systems
> 
> 
> >Trev,
> >
> >I am not arguing with anything you are saying here.  In fact, a
> >good case can be made that a blind person will
> >have more control over formatting using a markup language than we
> >will have using Word.  Where it gets more
> >difficult is when one has to update documents produced by others
> >or work with others on the same document.  I
> >also think it gets trickier when the person producing a document
> >is a casual computer user and needs help from
> >co-workers.  For most of the documents I write at home in my
> >personal life, Word is overkill and its
> >complexity can make creating simple documents more difficult
> >rather than easier.  Being an old math person, I
> >want to learn LATEX at some point.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >Steve Jacobson
> >
> >On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:14:43 -0400, Trevor Saunders wrote:
> >
> >>Hi,
> >
> >>On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 10:50:20AM -0500, Steve Jacobson wrote:
> >>>Trevor and others,
> >>>
> >>>I thought it made sense to change the subject line.  This is
> >>>an interesting topic.
> >>>
> >>>to add to my previous post, we have occasionally experienced
> >>>formatting issues when converting from Open
> >>>Office to Microsoft Office formats that seems not to involve
> >>>accessibility in any way.  In one case, a
> >complex
> >>>single-page document in Open office converted to an Office
> >>>document having 16 pages.  My daughter was able
> >to
> >>>edit the document in Microsoft Word on a Windows machine
> >>>fairly quickly to restore the format, though.
> >
> >>I've only heard about this the other way, microsoft -> open office.
> >>What I meant was in the case that a complicated document doesn't
> >>appear properly in open office I believe it may be that while open
> >>office has a correct model of the document that it provides to the
> >>access api, but incorrectly renders the document.  I don't know if
> >>that is the case, and haven't put much energy into figuring it out,
> >>but think it may be true since I believe I remenber seeing something
> >>like the situation I just described.
> >
> >>>However, an additional point I'd like to make here about
> >>>mixing platforms is that I think there is great
> >value
> >>>in using the same software as one's co-workers or as is used
> >>>by other students particularly in high school
> >and
> >>>before.  Even though the ability to transfer documents is
> >>>pretty good, I feel strongly yet that using
> >>>Microsoft Word to create ODF documents when one's co-workers
> >>>are using Open Office, for example, is still
> >not
> >>>something that we should accept as an accessible solution to
> >>>the fact that Open Office is apparently still
> >not
> >>>very accessible under Windows.  Further, if a school uses a
> >>>MAC but does a good bit of work using Microsoft
> >>>Word for the MAC, serious consideration needs to be given to
> >>>whether a student should use a MAC where
> >>>Microsoft Word is not accessible or whether they are better
> >>>off with a Windows computer but can then use
> >>>Microsoft Office products.  Besides the fact that complex
> >>>documents may not convert, I find it very helpful
> >to
> >>>get information on how to do something from my co-workers,
> >>>even if they do it with the mouse.  It can help
> >me
> >>>zero in on what I need to do.  These are not simple questions,
> >>>unfortunately,, but the situation will get
> >>>better over time.
> >
> >>I'll agree  that we shouldn't accept another program as access.
> >>However as a general principal, not as a blind person I prefer to
> >>use the best tool even if it isn't the popular one.  SO if the
> >>alternative program is better even with the conversion required I
> >>would rather use that than the common tool.  For example personally I
> >>do all my document preperation with latex instead of any word
> >>processor.
> >
> >>Trev
> >
> >>>
> >>>Best regards,
> >>>
> >>>Steve Jacobson
> >>>
> >>>On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:48:58 -0400, Trevor Saunders wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hi,
> >>>
> >>>>Personally I use linux, but here are some comments on the compatability
> >>>>issue.
> >>>>open office produces files in the actual microsoft formats, the only
> >>>>microsoft format I haven't seen it support is the one for access, and
> >>>>when I needed that I found a different utility that could do that.  I
> >>>>have heard that openoffice sometimes has trouble formating things from
> >>>>word documents correctly, but have never personally seen this, and
> >>>>wonder if it is a formating issue that is correct in what the
> >>>>accessibility api sees.
> >>>>mp3 is a standard format, there are some patent issues I believe, but
> >>>>it is standardized and any OS should be ale to deal with it.
> >>>>networking is also all standardized protocols (tcp/ip dhcp
> >>>etc), so it >is no suprise
> >>>>that a mac can use the same network.
> >>>> given a choice I would probably use a networked printer, then you
> >>>>shouldn't have to worry about drivers, but hardware may be an issue.
> >>>
> >>>>Trev
> >>>
> >>>>On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 08:56:01AM -0500, Steve Jacobson wrote:
> >>>>> Rob,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> These are all good points.  I must say, though, that I was
> >>>surprised >> to find that my Daughter's MAC was
> >>>able to connect to our home network and copy files she
> >>>>> needed from the Windows computer she had been using and all
> >>>seemed to >> work.  She has e-mailed me files
> >from
> >>>her MAC prepared both in TextEdit and in Open
> >>>>> Office for me to print and they printed all right.  She had
> >>>to pick a >> format in Open Office that
> >emulated
> >>>Microsoft office or RTF, though, but  it worked.  She saved a
> >>>>> song for me in MP3 format on her MAC and put it on a jump
> >>>drive that >> I, in turn, put in my Windows
> >laptop
> >>>and copied the MP3 file to my computer.  The apple
> >>>>> system does use some extra files that are hidden on the
> >>>MAC, so I had >> to sort through what was there to
> >>>find the file I wanted.  In short, I would not ignore the
> >>>>> compatibility issue, but I have been surprised at what we
> >>>have been >> able to do.  However, I had a little
> >>>Dell printer that I was hoping she could use and there just
> >>>>> seems no way to get it to work.  In doing some searches, I
> >>>find that >> telling the MAC that the printer is
> >>>really a particular Lexmark printer mostly works.  Therefore,
> >>>>> hardware compatibility can still be an issue.  However, a
> >>>Samsung >> printer I have seems to work fine on
> >the
> >>>MAC or on Windows, although it sometimes needs to be
> >>>>> reset when changing from one computer to the other.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I say all of this only to make the point that some of what
> >>>I assumed >> would be an issue has been less of
> >one
> >>>than I had thought.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Steve
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:05:41 -0500,  Rob Tabor wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >Hello Laura and List.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >The OS compatibility dilemma is exactly what I tried to
> >>>address in a >> >recent
> >>>>> >posting, albeit not as artfully as Laura's observations
> >>>and >> >concerns. Having
> >>>>> >no direct experience in the Apple environment I am unable to respond
> >>>>> >directly to Laura's question. However, I have heard that the
> >>>>> >interoperability problem rears its two janice-like ugly
> >>>heads, >> >namely file
> >>>>> >sharing and network interface. The first problem it appears could be
> >>>>> >remedied by installing dual OS's which seems like an
> >>>inefficient way >> >to do
> >>>>> >your IT, or by making use of a web based collaboration
> >>>platform such >> >as
> >>>>> >Google Chrome, which may not yet be ready for prime time.
> >>>I suspect >> >the
> >>>>> >network interface problem is much more complicated but
> >>>I'll defer >> >judgment
> >>>>> >to the techies among us. Then, as mentioned by Mr. Foret,
> >>>Linix >> >based
> >>>>> >systems add a whole new layer of corporate and consumer choices.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >I mention these issues to encourage anyone who is entering
> >>>into the >> >personal
> >>>>> >IT arena for the first time or who contemplate changing to
> >>>a >> >different OS to
> >>>>> >consider these issues carefully and to take the choice
> >>>that meets >> >one's I.T
> >>>>> >needs 90 percent of the time.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >Best regards,
> >>>>> >Rob Tabor and White Cane Ra?l
> >>>>> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "qubit"
> >>><lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
> >>>>> >To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> >Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 6:55 PM
> >>>>> >Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Microsoft security essentials
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >> the only thing that a windowss groupie could say about
> >>>that is >> >> that Mac
> >>>>> >> doesn't get viruses because it is not yet popular enough
> >>>to have >> >> the bad
> >>>>> >> guys attacking it.  If it has a simple installation
> >>>protocol, then >> >> it is
> >>>>> >> all
> >>>>> >> the easier for bad stuff to quietly install itself in
> >>>there as >> >> well.
> >>>>> >> I don't know enough to say this is plausible, I'm only
> >>>speaking >> >> from
> >>>>> >> general
> >>>>> >> experience with unix and windows.
> >>>>> >> I'm concerned about interoperability between mac and pc.
> >>>I have >> >> an old
> >>>>> >> mac that I hardle ever use.  Virtually all of my
> >>>activity is on my >> >> windows
> >>>>> >> laptops.
> >>>>> >> I want to move to mac for some activities but worry I
> >>>won't be >> >> able to
> >>>>> >> exchange files between mac and pc without compatibility problems.
> >>>>> >> Has anyone else resolved this problem?
> >>>>> >> TIA
> >>>>> >> --le
> >>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Mike Arrigo"
> >>><n0oxy at charter.net>
> >>>>> >> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> >> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 6:27 PM
> >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Microsoft security essentials
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> I suppose what I am about to say could be considered a
> >>>shot at >> >> windows,
> >>>>> >> though that is not what I am intending here, indeed, if
> >>>someone is >> >> going
> >>>>> >> to
> >>>>> >> say something is better than something else, they should
> >>>provide >> >> reasons
> >>>>> >> for
> >>>>> >> it. So, I will provide a few reasons why I think the mac
> >>>operating >> >> system
> >>>>> >> is
> >>>>> >> better, aside from the fact that the screen reader is
> >>>built in of >> >> course.
> >>>>> >> The fact that it's much more difficult to get a virus on
> >>>the mac >> >> has
> >>>>> >> already
> >>>>> >> been covered, so let's look at a few other things,
> >>>particularly >> >> with
> >>>>> >> applications. As someone who works in tech support, I
> >>>get several >> >> calls
> >>>>> >> from
> >>>>> >> users attempting to install our software, and receive
> >>>errors that >> >> files
> >>>>> >> cannot register, or there are conflicts with different
> >>>versions of >> >> the
> >>>>> >> same
> >>>>> >> file on someone's system. The mac does not have these
> >>>problems. In >> >> most
> >>>>> >> cases, the application is simply copied to the
> >>>applications >> >> folder, and
> >>>>> >> when
> >>>>> >> it is run, it creates the preference files that it will
> >>>use. If >> >> you want
> >>>>> >> to
> >>>>> >> uninstall a program, simply delete it from the
> >>>applications >> >> folder, and go
> >>>>> >> to your library folder and delete the preference files.
> >>>No need to >> >> worry
> >>>>> >> about shared files, and no left over entries cluttering
> >>>up a >> >> registry.
> >>>>> >> Clearly, when it comes to applications, the mac
> >>>operating system >> >> has a
> >>>>> >> better approach
> >>>>> >> On Jul 11, 2010, at 12:40 PM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>> Well, of course, point taken.  Now, here's the funny
> >>>thing about >> >>> that.  I
> >>>>> >>> find myself now doing the very thing I said I would
> >>>never do. >> >>> Gives one
> >>>>> >>> pause for thought doesn't it?  Looks like you win one.
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> Sorry about that.
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> Sincerely,
> >>>>> >>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> E-Mail:
> >>>>> >>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
> >>>>> >>> Skype Name:
> >>>>> >>> barefootedray
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> On Jul 11, 2010, at 10:47 AM, David Andrews wrote:
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>> Why is it that Mac users almost always have to take a
> >>>shot at >> >>>> Windows?
> >>>>> >>>> If I want religion I will go to church.  If I want to
> >>>do some >> >>>> work I
> >>>>> >>>> will
> >>>>> >>>> use the computer/OS of my choice!
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>> Dave
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>> At 08:05 AM 7/10/2010, you wrote:
> >>>>> >>>>> Frankly, I'd have to agree with Mike.  IF you feel
> >>>you must >> >>>>> continue to
> >>>>> >>>>> run Windows, (for what ever strange reason), Just
> >>>couldn't >> >>>>> resist
> >>>>> >>>>> that...yes, Microsoft Security Essentials is indeed a
> >>>good >> >>>>> solution.
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>> >>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>>                       David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com
> >>>>> >>>> Follow me on Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> >>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
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