[gui-talk] Multiple platforms and Operating Systems
Steve Jacobson
steve.jacobson at visi.com
Tue Jul 13 16:44:46 UTC 2010
Trev,
I am not arguing with anything you are saying here. In fact, a good case can be made that a blind person will
have more control over formatting using a markup language than we will have using Word. Where it gets more
difficult is when one has to update documents produced by others or work with others on the same document. I
also think it gets trickier when the person producing a document is a casual computer user and needs help from
co-workers. For most of the documents I write at home in my personal life, Word is overkill and its
complexity can make creating simple documents more difficult rather than easier. Being an old math person, I
want to learn LATEX at some point.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:14:43 -0400, Trevor Saunders wrote:
>Hi,
>On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 10:50:20AM -0500, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>> Trevor and others,
>>
>> I thought it made sense to change the subject line. This is an interesting topic.
>>
>> to add to my previous post, we have occasionally experienced formatting issues when converting from Open
>> Office to Microsoft Office formats that seems not to involve accessibility in any way. In one case, a
complex
>> single-page document in Open office converted to an Office document having 16 pages. My daughter was able
to
>> edit the document in Microsoft Word on a Windows machine fairly quickly to restore the format, though.
>I've only heard about this the other way, microsoft -> open office.
>What I meant was in the case that a complicated document doesn't
>appear properly in open office I believe it may be that while open
>office has a correct model of the document that it provides to the
>access api, but incorrectly renders the document. I don't know if
>that is the case, and haven't put much energy into figuring it out,
>but think it may be true since I believe I remenber seeing something
>like the situation I just described.
>> However, an additional point I'd like to make here about mixing platforms is that I think there is great
value
>> in using the same software as one's co-workers or as is used by other students particularly in high school
and
>> before. Even though the ability to transfer documents is pretty good, I feel strongly yet that using
>> Microsoft Word to create ODF documents when one's co-workers are using Open Office, for example, is still
not
>> something that we should accept as an accessible solution to the fact that Open Office is apparently still
not
>> very accessible under Windows. Further, if a school uses a MAC but does a good bit of work using Microsoft
>> Word for the MAC, serious consideration needs to be given to whether a student should use a MAC where
>> Microsoft Word is not accessible or whether they are better off with a Windows computer but can then use
>> Microsoft Office products. Besides the fact that complex documents may not convert, I find it very helpful
to
>> get information on how to do something from my co-workers, even if they do it with the mouse. It can help
me
>> zero in on what I need to do. These are not simple questions, unfortunately,, but the situation will get
>> better over time.
>I'll agree that we shouldn't accept another program as access.
>However as a general principal, not as a blind person I prefer to
>use the best tool even if it isn't the popular one. SO if the
>alternative program is better even with the conversion required I
>would rather use that than the common tool. For example personally I
>do all my document preperation with latex instead of any word
>processor.
>Trev
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:48:58 -0400, Trevor Saunders wrote:
>>
>> >Hi,
>>
>> >Personally I use linux, but here are some comments on the compatability
>> >issue.
>> >open office produces files in the actual microsoft formats, the only
>> >microsoft format I haven't seen it support is the one for access, and
>> >when I needed that I found a different utility that could do that. I
>> >have heard that openoffice sometimes has trouble formating things from
>> >word documents correctly, but have never personally seen this, and
>> >wonder if it is a formating issue that is correct in what the
>> >accessibility api sees.
>> >mp3 is a standard format, there are some patent issues I believe, but
>> >it is standardized and any OS should be ale to deal with it.
>> >networking is also all standardized protocols (tcp/ip dhcp etc), so it is no suprise
>> >that a mac can use the same network.
>> > given a choice I would probably use a networked printer, then you
>> >shouldn't have to worry about drivers, but hardware may be an issue.
>>
>> >Trev
>>
>> >On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 08:56:01AM -0500, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>> >> Rob,
>> >>
>> >> These are all good points. I must say, though, that I was surprised to find that my Daughter's MAC was
>> able to connect to our home network and copy files she
>> >> needed from the Windows computer she had been using and all seemed to work. She has e-mailed me files
from
>> her MAC prepared both in TextEdit and in Open
>> >> Office for me to print and they printed all right. She had to pick a format in Open Office that
emulated
>> Microsoft office or RTF, though, but it worked. She saved a
>> >> song for me in MP3 format on her MAC and put it on a jump drive that I, in turn, put in my Windows
laptop
>> and copied the MP3 file to my computer. The apple
>> >> system does use some extra files that are hidden on the MAC, so I had to sort through what was there to
>> find the file I wanted. In short, I would not ignore the
>> >> compatibility issue, but I have been surprised at what we have been able to do. However, I had a little
>> Dell printer that I was hoping she could use and there just
>> >> seems no way to get it to work. In doing some searches, I find that telling the MAC that the printer is
>> really a particular Lexmark printer mostly works. Therefore,
>> >> hardware compatibility can still be an issue. However, a Samsung printer I have seems to work fine on
the
>> MAC or on Windows, although it sometimes needs to be
>> >> reset when changing from one computer to the other.
>> >>
>> >> I say all of this only to make the point that some of what I assumed would be an issue has been less of
one
>> than I had thought.
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:05:41 -0500, Rob Tabor wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Hello Laura and List.
>> >>
>> >> >The OS compatibility dilemma is exactly what I tried to address in a recent
>> >> >posting, albeit not as artfully as Laura's observations and concerns. Having
>> >> >no direct experience in the Apple environment I am unable to respond
>> >> >directly to Laura's question. However, I have heard that the
>> >> >interoperability problem rears its two janice-like ugly heads, namely file
>> >> >sharing and network interface. The first problem it appears could be
>> >> >remedied by installing dual OS's which seems like an inefficient way to do
>> >> >your IT, or by making use of a web based collaboration platform such as
>> >> >Google Chrome, which may not yet be ready for prime time. I suspect the
>> >> >network interface problem is much more complicated but I'll defer judgment
>> >> >to the techies among us. Then, as mentioned by Mr. Foret, Linix based
>> >> >systems add a whole new layer of corporate and consumer choices.
>> >>
>> >> >I mention these issues to encourage anyone who is entering into the personal
>> >> >IT arena for the first time or who contemplate changing to a different OS to
>> >> >consider these issues carefully and to take the choice that meets one's I.T
>> >> >needs 90 percent of the time.
>> >>
>> >> >Best regards,
>> >> >Rob Tabor and White Cane Ra?l
>> >> >----- Original Message -----
>> >> >From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>> >> >To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> >> >Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 6:55 PM
>> >> >Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Microsoft security essentials
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >> the only thing that a windowss groupie could say about that is that Mac
>> >> >> doesn't get viruses because it is not yet popular enough to have the bad
>> >> >> guys attacking it. If it has a simple installation protocol, then it is
>> >> >> all
>> >> >> the easier for bad stuff to quietly install itself in there as well.
>> >> >> I don't know enough to say this is plausible, I'm only speaking from
>> >> >> general
>> >> >> experience with unix and windows.
>> >> >> I'm concerned about interoperability between mac and pc. I have an old
>> >> >> mac that I hardle ever use. Virtually all of my activity is on my windows
>> >> >> laptops.
>> >> >> I want to move to mac for some activities but worry I won't be able to
>> >> >> exchange files between mac and pc without compatibility problems.
>> >> >> Has anyone else resolved this problem?
>> >> >> TIA
>> >> >> --le
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: "Mike Arrigo" <n0oxy at charter.net>
>> >> >> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 6:27 PM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Microsoft security essentials
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I suppose what I am about to say could be considered a shot at windows,
>> >> >> though that is not what I am intending here, indeed, if someone is going
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> say something is better than something else, they should provide reasons
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> it. So, I will provide a few reasons why I think the mac operating system
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> better, aside from the fact that the screen reader is built in of course.
>> >> >> The fact that it's much more difficult to get a virus on the mac has
>> >> >> already
>> >> >> been covered, so let's look at a few other things, particularly with
>> >> >> applications. As someone who works in tech support, I get several calls
>> >> >> from
>> >> >> users attempting to install our software, and receive errors that files
>> >> >> cannot register, or there are conflicts with different versions of the
>> >> >> same
>> >> >> file on someone's system. The mac does not have these problems. In most
>> >> >> cases, the application is simply copied to the applications folder, and
>> >> >> when
>> >> >> it is run, it creates the preference files that it will use. If you want
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> uninstall a program, simply delete it from the applications folder, and go
>> >> >> to your library folder and delete the preference files. No need to worry
>> >> >> about shared files, and no left over entries cluttering up a registry.
>> >> >> Clearly, when it comes to applications, the mac operating system has a
>> >> >> better approach
>> >> >> On Jul 11, 2010, at 12:40 PM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Well, of course, point taken. Now, here's the funny thing about that. I
>> >> >>> find myself now doing the very thing I said I would never do. Gives one
>> >> >>> pause for thought doesn't it? Looks like you win one.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sorry about that.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sincerely,
>> >> >>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> E-Mail:
>> >> >>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>> >> >>> Skype Name:
>> >> >>> barefootedray
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Jul 11, 2010, at 10:47 AM, David Andrews wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> Why is it that Mac users almost always have to take a shot at Windows?
>> >> >>>> If I want religion I will go to church. If I want to do some work I
>> >> >>>> will
>> >> >>>> use the computer/OS of my choice!
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Dave
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> At 08:05 AM 7/10/2010, you wrote:
>> >> >>>>> Frankly, I'd have to agree with Mike. IF you feel you must continue to
>> >> >>>>> run Windows, (for what ever strange reason), Just couldn't resist
>> >> >>>>> that...yes, Microsoft Security Essentials is indeed a good solution.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Sincerely,
>> >> >>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com
>> >> >>>> Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
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