[NAGDU] Uber Service Animal Self ID Program

Tue Apr 15 05:08:37 UTC 2025

I have access denials almost on the daily. I have had native white males
say they will blow up like a balloon if they transport me even after I
explain I have a service dog. I have had other drivers drive up see I have
a dog and cancel. Uber is so unorganized on their end if they call me and
ao call them immediately back no one knows what I am talking about. They
say they talk to the driver and deactivate them but ai have had numerous
same drivers deny me.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2025 at 10:42 PM slery via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Since you bring up leaving the law to lawmakers, why is there no
> repercussions for breaking the law? That is the real problem here and why
> it keeps being repeated. The drivers are not being penalized for breaking
> the law.
>
> If I steal a candy bar every day and all that happens is a slap to my
> hand, then, what is the incentive to stop? If instead of a slap I on the
> hand I had to sit in jail over night, then I would think twice about doing
> it again.
>
> These drivers need to spend the night in jail. They need to have their
> license revoked. As it stands, they cancel that ride and move on with their
> life while the blind person is stuck figuring out how to get to their
> destination, sometimes standing in the rain or snow, sometimes already
> locked out of a building because they came out to meet the car.
>
> Cindy
>
>
> On 4/10/2025 9:47 AM, Al Elia via NAGDU wrote:
>
> JAnine – do you have any suggestions as to how a private company is
> supposed to lawfully produce media that addresses cultural biases that
> other cultures ahve against people with disabilities? Keep in mind that our
> laws also protect against discrimination based on national origin, so
> companies would have to produce largely the same media in all languages,
> and not target drivers based on their background or language. Imagine how
> the community would react to companies messaging drivers that while they
> may have been brought up to believe that people with disabilities must be
> protected from themselves and always accompanied by a family member, the
> laws protect their right to live independently, and that sometimes they do
> that by using a helper animal called a service animal. Everyone would pile
> on the company for that messaging: Disability advocates and progressives
> would cry foul at the notion that the company was paying even lip-service
> to regressive ideas , while disability advocates and conservatives would
> berate the companies for coddling beliefes that go against the law.
>
> For better or worse, we delegate lawmaking to lawmakers. We then require
> people to comply with the law. One of the first things we learned in law
> school was that ignorance of the law is no excuse. That rule is one of the
> reasons why laws and regulations must be publicly available, so that no one
> can claim that they had no notice of a law they are accused of breaking.
> The rideshare companies are providing additional notice to drivers that
> they must not only comply with the law generally, but that they must
> specifically comply with the specific laws protecting our right to travel
> with a service animal. They are doing that in the languages that the
> drivers are most commonly using to ensure that the drivers cannot claim a
> lack of notice. There is no cultural issue I am aware of regarding
> obligations of contracts or violations of tcontractual terms. If a driver
> agreees to those terms, and then doesn’t so comply, they should swiftly be
> removed from the platforms, not be educated based on cultural differences
> before or after the fact.
>
> I suggest that the best way to address a cultures bias against people with
> disabilities is to take a hard stance against that bias. We don’t attempt
> to address other cultural biases with gentle education. We would not
> attempt to educate a white contractor who refused to hire or do business
> with non-white people by telling them that, notwithstanding the beliefs
> they may have regarding the work ethics or trustworthiness of non-white
> people, they can’t rfuse to hire or do business with them. In fact, if we
> did, we would ourselves be guilty of perpetuating those discriminatory
> beliefs. The same goes for cultural biases against us as people with
> disabilities.
>
> That said, if you have ideas for how to address cultural biases in a
> manner that does not discriminate based on national origin and does not
> perpetuate discrimination against us, I welcome discussion of those ideas.
>
> Yours,
>
> /Æ
>
>
>
> On 9 Apr 2025, at 16:39, Jenine Stanley wrote:
>
> That’s great that the notification is in different languages but that
> doesn’t address people’s culture. If people with disabilities are never
> seen and have no agency in their culture, how can we expect them to
> recognize the phrase “service animal”?
>
> I’ll say it again, not making excuses for denials. Just trying to give
> some advocacy ideas because the current scheme isn’t working as well as we
> thought or it should.
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2025, at 4:18 PM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Leslie thanks this is interesting.
>
> *From:* NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> *On Behalf Of *Leslie Hamric via
> NAGDU
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 9, 2025 4:05 PM
> *To:* nagdu at nfbnet.org
> *Cc:* Leslie Hamric <lhamric930 at comcast.net>; nagdu at nfbnet.org
> *Subject:* Re: [NAGDU] Uber Service Animal Self ID Program
>
> According to Brianna, the service animal notification has been translated
> into the 10 most spoken languages.
> Leslie Hamric
> Cello and Braille Music Teacher
>
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2025, at 12:33 PM, Jenine Stanley via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
>  The only thing I can add to this discussion is a question about
> potential training for drivers. Are we as “service animal” groups enlisting
> allies within the driver community of various ethnic groups, who speak
> various languages? Sometimes the message comes over better from someone in
> your peer group.
>
> Not to make excuses at all for denials but I had one recently like yours,
> Julie, in which the person had no idea what service animal meant, what
> guide dog meant, what Seeing eye Dog meant. I had to tell him I was blind
> and this was my helper dog before he understood. Then he was fine and we
> had a lovely trip but prior to that we were at a standstill.
>
> I’m wondering if we’re assuming too much and not factoring in our own
> cultural sensitivity when it comes to the training ride share companies
> provide.
>
> Otherwise, I’m incredibly frustrated on your behalf, Julie as I keep
> reading accounts of  denials like yours.
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2025, at 9:35 AM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Julie. I’m so frustrated on your behalf. The driver should get a
> notification that says “rider has a service animal.” If they hit cancel at
> that point, the app reminds them that it’s against the law and Uber’s
> policy to deny access. If they still hit cancel, then it’s supposed to
> trigger a streamlined complaint process available to you in the app or
> through a link in your email. If the drivers ignore the pop-up and just
> arrive and see you and then decide they don’t want to take you and cancel,
> I would think that the pop-up in your app about filing a complaint should
> still pop up. What was your experience? Were you easily able to file
> complaints either with the link in your email or the prompt in the app, or
> did you have to dig around  in the menus like we normally had to do and
> file a complaint that way? This of course assumes that people just have
> time to monitor what they’re getting in the app and file complaints
> somewhat contemporaneously, but I still wanted to ask what your experience
> was on that front.
>
> *From:* NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> *On Behalf Of *Julie A. Orozco
> via NAGDU
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 8, 2025 9:34 PM
> *To:* 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> *Cc:* Julie A. Orozco <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* [NAGDU] Uber Service Animal Self ID Program
>
> Good evening fellow guide dog users,
>
> I hope all of you are doing well. I am **finally** working my third guide
> dog, a male chocolate lab from The Seeing Eye, called Xavier. He’s a
> wonderful dog and a joy to work.
>
> Of course, working a dog brings about the inevitable Uber denials. I’ve
> gotten three so far, and we’ve only been home a couple of weeks. (Uber and
> Lyft are really terrible in the DC area.)
>
> For some reason, Sunday was just a bad day for me and Uber. I have self ID
> turned on, so drivers should be notified when they arrive that they are
> picking up someone with a service animal and that they are required by law
> to allow us in their car. At least, that was my understanding. But these
> drivers seem unable to understand the self ID notification. Either that, or
> they are not being notified properly.
>
> I had three drivers on Sunday going to and from a friend’s house. The
> first driver took me, only when I pointed to my eyes and told him I was
> blind and that my dog was working. (Sometimes, looking blind has its
> advantages.) He did not understand when I asked him if the app told him I
> was traveling with a service animal.
>
> The second driver, the one who was set to take me home, refused us access.
> He did not speak English, but even when my friend and I pulled out Google
> translate, he would not budge. He said no dogs in his car and even canceled
> the ride. I am not sure if he received the notification, but he seemed
> totally clueless about the whole service animal thing. I don’t think he was
> faking it either because if so, he wouldn’t have wanted to cancel the ride
> himself.
>
> The third driver didn’t want to take me at first either. I had to explain
> to him what my dog was for, and once I did, he got it. I asked him if he
> received the notification, and he said yes but that he didn’t get a chance
> to read it. He said he could just get passed it without reading it.
>
> So, my questions follow. Are drivers being notified and trained about
> their requirements under law to take service animal teams in their language
> of choice? Second, what does the notification system look like? I imagined
> something that would pop up and force them to read before proceeding with
> the trip. How are so many of my drivers seeming confused about me and my
> guide dog? Is this still happening to anyone else? Or do I live in the land
> of Uber access denials?
>
> I was hesitant about self ID, but I am happy with it because it doesn’t
> alert the drivers until they arrive. It’s like Uber telling them for me
> when I’m right there that the driver has to follow the law and take me with
> my service animal. But it’s not effective if drivers can just ignore the
> notifications.
>
> Apologies for the long email, and thank you for any perspective you can
> provide.
>
> Julie
>
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