[NAGDU] Uber Service Animal Self ID Program
slery
slerythema at gmail.com
Tue Apr 15 04:41:06 UTC 2025
Since you bring up leaving the law to lawmakers, why is there no
repercussions for breaking the law? That is the real problem here and
why it keeps being repeated. The drivers are not being penalized for
breaking the law.
If I steal a candy bar every day and all that happens is a slap to my
hand, then, what is the incentive to stop? If instead of a slap I on the
hand I had to sit in jail over night, then I would think twice about
doing it again.
These drivers need to spend the night in jail. They need to have their
license revoked. As it stands, they cancel that ride and move on with
their life while the blind person is stuck figuring out how to get to
their destination, sometimes standing in the rain or snow, sometimes
already locked out of a building because they came out to meet the car.
Cindy
On 4/10/2025 9:47 AM, Al Elia via NAGDU wrote:
>
> JAnine – do you have any suggestions as to how a private company is
> supposed to lawfully produce media that addresses cultural biases that
> other cultures ahve against people with disabilities? Keep in mind
> that our laws also protect against discrimination based on national
> origin, so companies would have to produce largely the same media in
> all languages, and not target drivers based on their background or
> language. Imagine how the community would react to companies messaging
> drivers that while they may have been brought up to believe that
> people with disabilities must be protected from themselves and always
> accompanied by a family member, the laws protect their right to live
> independently, and that sometimes they do that by using a helper
> animal called a service animal. Everyone would pile on the company for
> that messaging: Disability advocates and progressives would cry foul
> at the notion that the company was paying even lip-service to
> regressive ideas , while disability advocates and conservatives would
> berate the companies for coddling beliefes that go against the law.
>
> For better or worse, we delegate lawmaking to lawmakers. We then
> require people to comply with the law. One of the first things we
> learned in law school was that ignorance of the law is no excuse. That
> rule is one of the reasons why laws and regulations must be publicly
> available, so that no one can claim that they had no notice of a law
> they are accused of breaking. The rideshare companies are providing
> additional notice to drivers that they must not only comply with the
> law generally, but that they must specifically comply with the
> specific laws protecting our right to travel with a service animal.
> They are doing that in the languages that the drivers are most
> commonly using to ensure that the drivers cannot claim a lack of
> notice. There is no cultural issue I am aware of regarding obligations
> of contracts or violations of tcontractual terms. If a driver agreees
> to those terms, and then doesn’t so comply, they should swiftly be
> removed from the platforms, not be educated based on cultural
> differences before or after the fact.
>
> I suggest that the best way to address a cultures bias against people
> with disabilities is to take a hard stance against that bias. We don’t
> attempt to address other cultural biases with gentle education. We
> would not attempt to educate a white contractor who refused to hire or
> do business with non-white people by telling them that,
> notwithstanding the beliefs they may have regarding the work ethics or
> trustworthiness of non-white people, they can’t rfuse to hire or do
> business with them. In fact, if we did, we would ourselves be guilty
> of perpetuating those discriminatory beliefs. The same goes for
> cultural biases against us as people with disabilities.
>
> That said, if you have ideas for how to address cultural biases in a
> manner that does not discriminate based on national origin and does
> not perpetuate discrimination against us, I welcome discussion of
> those ideas.
>
> Yours,
>
> /Æ
>
>
>
>
> On 9 Apr 2025, at 16:39, Jenine Stanley wrote:
>
> That’s great that the notification is in different languages but
> that doesn’t address people’s culture. If people with disabilities
> are never seen and have no agency in their culture, how can we
> expect them to recognize the phrase “service animal”?
>
> I’ll say it again, not making excuses for denials. Just trying to
> give some advocacy ideas because the current scheme isn’t working
> as well as we thought or it should.
>
>
>> On Apr 9, 2025, at 4:18 PM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Leslie thanks this is interesting.
>> *From:*NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>*On Behalf Of*Leslie
>> Hamric via NAGDU
>> *Sent:*Wednesday, April 9, 2025 4:05 PM
>> *To:*nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> *Cc:*Leslie Hamric <lhamric930 at comcast.net>;nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> *Subject:*Re: [NAGDU] Uber Service Animal Self ID Program
>> According to Brianna, the service animal notification has been
>> translated into the 10 most spoken languages.
>> Leslie Hamric
>> Cello and Braille Music Teacher
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 9, 2025, at 12:33 PM, Jenine Stanley via NAGDU
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> The only thing I can add to this discussion is a question
>> about potential training for drivers. Are we as “service
>> animal” groups enlisting allies within the driver community
>> of various ethnic groups, who speak various languages?
>> Sometimes the message comes over better from someone in your
>> peer group.
>> Not to make excuses at all for denials but I had one recently
>> like yours, Julie, in which the person had no idea what
>> service animal meant, what guide dog meant, what Seeing eye
>> Dog meant. I had to tell him I was blind and this was my
>> helper dog before he understood. Then he was fine and we had
>> a lovely trip but prior to that we were at a standstill.
>> I’m wondering if we’re assuming too much and not factoring in
>> our own cultural sensitivity when it comes to the training
>> ride share companies provide.
>> Otherwise, I’m incredibly frustrated on your behalf, Julie as
>> I keep reading accounts of denials like yours.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 9, 2025, at 9:35 AM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi Julie. I’m so frustrated on your behalf. The driver
>> should get a notification that says “rider has a service
>> animal.” If they hit cancel at that point, the app
>> reminds them that it’s against the law and Uber’s policy
>> to deny access. If they still hit cancel, then it’s
>> supposed to trigger a streamlined complaint process
>> available to you in the app or through a link in your
>> email. If the drivers ignore the pop-up and just arrive
>> and see you and then decide they don’t want to take you
>> and cancel, I would think that the pop-up in your app
>> about filing a complaint should still pop up. What was
>> your experience? Were you easily able to file complaints
>> either with the link in your email or the prompt in the
>> app, or did you have to dig around in the menus like we
>> normally had to do and file a complaint that way? This of
>> course assumes that people just have time to monitor what
>> they’re getting in the app and file complaints somewhat
>> contemporaneously, but I still wanted to ask what your
>> experience was on that front.
>> *From:*NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>*On Behalf
>> Of*Julie A. Orozco via NAGDU
>> *Sent:*Tuesday, April 8, 2025 9:34 PM
>> *To:*'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> *Cc:*Julie A. Orozco <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>> *Subject:*[NAGDU] Uber Service Animal Self ID Program
>> Good evening fellow guide dog users,
>> I hope all of you are doing well. I am **finally**
>> working my third guide dog, a male chocolate lab from The
>> Seeing Eye, called Xavier. He’s a wonderful dog and a joy
>> to work.
>> Of course, working a dog brings about the inevitable Uber
>> denials. I’ve gotten three so far, and we’ve only been
>> home a couple of weeks. (Uber and Lyft are really
>> terrible in the DC area.)
>> For some reason, Sunday was just a bad day for me and
>> Uber. I have self ID turned on, so drivers should be
>> notified when they arrive that they are picking up
>> someone with a service animal and that they are required
>> by law to allow us in their car. At least, that was my
>> understanding. But these drivers seem unable to
>> understand the self ID notification. Either that, or they
>> are not being notified properly.
>> I had three drivers on Sunday going to and from a
>> friend’s house. The first driver took me, only when I
>> pointed to my eyes and told him I was blind and that my
>> dog was working. (Sometimes, looking blind has its
>> advantages.) He did not understand when I asked him if
>> the app told him I was traveling with a service animal.
>> The second driver, the one who was set to take me home,
>> refused us access. He did not speak English, but even
>> when my friend and I pulled out Google translate, he
>> would not budge. He said no dogs in his car and even
>> canceled the ride. I am not sure if he received the
>> notification, but he seemed totally clueless about the
>> whole service animal thing. I don’t think he was faking
>> it either because if so, he wouldn’t have wanted to
>> cancel the ride himself.
>> The third driver didn’t want to take me at first either.
>> I had to explain to him what my dog was for, and once I
>> did, he got it. I asked him if he received the
>> notification, and he said yes but that he didn’t get a
>> chance to read it. He said he could just get passed it
>> without reading it.
>> So, my questions follow. Are drivers being notified and
>> trained about their requirements under law to take
>> service animal teams in their language of choice? Second,
>> what does the notification system look like? I imagined
>> something that would pop up and force them to read before
>> proceeding with the trip. How are so many of my drivers
>> seeming confused about me and my guide dog? Is this still
>> happening to anyone else? Or do I live in the land of
>> Uber access denials?
>> I was hesitant about self ID, but I am happy with it
>> because it doesn’t alert the drivers until they arrive.
>> It’s like Uber telling them for me when I’m right there
>> that the driver has to follow the law and take me with my
>> service animal. But it’s not effective if drivers can
>> just ignore the notifications.
>> Apologies for the long email, and thank you for any
>> perspective you can provide.
>> Julie
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