[gui-talk] Voiceover

Mike Arrigo n0oxy at charter.net
Mon Jul 27 23:06:48 UTC 2009 

The mac does have that type of thing, but it's stored in preference  
files and other similar things. And, there scripts that run  
automatically every day, once a week, and once a month to handle the  
clean up work, though you really don't notice when they are run. I've  
had my mac for more than a year, have never had to reinstall the  
operating system, and it's running as fast as the day I got it. My pc  
is running quite fast, but that's only because I know how t maintain  
windows.
On Jul 26, 2009, at 8:27 PM, albert griffith wrote:

> I guess I know just enough about computers to be dangerous.   
> Example: it's
> difficult for me to imagine an operating system without a registry  
> or data
> base of stored information to keep it running which would need  
> cleaning out
> from time to time.  I believe you but I can't get my head around the
> concept.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk- 
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 6:15 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>
> Whether voice over is up to speed depends on what you want to do. If
> you're interest is email, browsing the web, music, word processing,
> audio editing, chatting on the net, then voice over is more than up to
> handling that. There are a couple other advantages that have not been
> mentioned yet in this discussion, so I will mention them here. You can
> update or reinstall your operating system completely without sighted
> help, the install is available with speech and braille if you have a
> braille display. For example, when the new operating system comes out
> in a couple of months, we will be able to install it totally without
> sighted help, and I plan on doing a pod cast on this. Another area I
> wanted to mention is backup and restore. In windows, you can usually
> back up your system, but so far I have not found a way to restore an
> entire system with speech. It would usually need to be scripted. On
> the mac, if you have an external hard drive, you can perform a full
> system backup, then actually boot from that external drive if you need
> to. You could then restore the contents of the external drive back to
> your internal, and have speech and or braille through the entire
> process. One other thing I will mention, and this is more about the
> mac in general than with voiceover, the design of the operating system
> in my view is far superior to windows. There is no registry to clean,
> and no need to defragment the hard drive.
> On Jul 26, 2009, at 2:10 PM, albert griffith wrote:
>
>> That the screen reader is built in to the operating system is a major
>> incentive for me to make the switch, however, I'd just as soon stick
>> with my
>> screen reader through another computer cycle if voiceover isn't
>> quite up to
>> speed.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-
>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
>> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 9:27 AM
>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>>
>> Another great advantage of having the screen reader built in is, it
>> allows developers to test for themselves the accessibility of their
>> applications.
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>>
>>> You need only walk in to a store selling the Mac and press command f
>>> 5 to
>>> turn on Voice Over and play with it for yourself.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>>
>>> "Old friend, what are you looking for?  After those many years
>>> abroad you
>>> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your
>>> own land"
>>> George Seferis
>>>
>>> Phone or Fax::
>>> +1 (985) 360-3614
>>> Cell:
>>> +1 (985) 791-2938
>>> e-mail:
>>> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>>> Skype Name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "albert griffith" <albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Ray,  I've yet to read the NFB article but I plan to soon.  We'll
>>> benefit
>>> from all the access points it should illuminate. Do you know if
>>> Apple is
>>> offering their screen reader as a demo anywhere?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-
>>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:24 PM
>>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>>>
>>> Granted, Voice over is well worth serious consideration; but, Kevin,
>>> there's
>>>
>>> no need to get unpleasant about it.  The NFB's perspective was
>>> written from
>>> a Windows users point of view because that's what most blind
>>> computer users
>>> are familiar with.  Like it or not, this is so.  I always hear Voice
>>> Over
>>> users say "You can't compare the Mac to Windows.".  Fair enough.
>>> So, in
>>> that case, why not truly help us Windows users get to know Voice
>>> Over better
>>>
>>> instead of just criticizing us just because we do what it is human
>>> nature to
>>>
>>> do; compare one thing to another.  I grant you that the Mac is worth
>>> serious
>>>
>>> consideration; and, If I wasn't still paying for this lap top, I
>>> would
>>> indeed very seriously look at Voice Over.  Let me give you an
>>> example of how
>>>
>>> Voice Over users can be more helpful.  In the NFB article, it is
>>> stated that
>>>
>>> when you press the space bar to check or uncheck items on a web
>>> page, Voice
>>> Over does not tell you whether an item is checked or unchecked.  I
>>> believe
>>> this is true; however, there is another factor.  The article then
>>> goes on to
>>>
>>> incorrectly state that there is no way without fumbling around, to
>>> determine
>>>
>>> whether an item is checked or not.  As I understand it, there is a
>>> special
>>> Voice over key command which is used to check or uncheck items on
>>> web pages.
>>>
>>> When this key stroke is used, Voice over will tell you at once
>>> whether an
>>> item is checked or unchecked.  Now, it's quite clear to me that the
>>> fellow
>>> reviewing Voice Over for the NFB did not know this fact.  but, I ask
>>> you,
>>> why did not some voice over users help him with the trouble he was
>>> having?
>>> Why did the NFB not seek help from Voice Over users?  Well, I think
>>> I can
>>> answer that one.  He wanted to deal with Voice Over from the stand
>>> point of
>>> a strictly out of the box experience.  IN other words, his logic was
>>> this.
>>> "Let me see what I can learn about Voice Over strictly from the help
>>> and
>>> what ever documentation I can access on my own.".  Fair enough; but,
>>> let's
>>> think a bit.  How many Windows users do you know who rely just on
>>> the built
>>> in help and what documentation they can read on their own?  Well, I
>>> sure
>>> don't know too many myself.  Most Windows users go to one another
>>> for help
>>> and we help each other.  Why, therefore, did the NFB fellow not seek
>>> help in
>>>
>>> the same way from Mac users?  A fair question I think.  Frankly, I  
>>> am
>>> perfectly willing to take a look at Voice over, not so much from the
>>> NFB
>>> stand point; nor from a Voice Over defense point of view.  My look
>>> will be
>>> based a bit on both and I will be wanting to get very objective
>>> information.
>>>
>>> I don't think I can count on either the NFB or Voice Over devotees
>>> to be
>>> truly objective; and, therefore, the best strategy I can think of is
>>> to take
>>>
>>> the best of both and make your own decision.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>>
>>> "Old friend, what are you looking for?  After those many years
>>> abroad you
>>> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your
>>> own land"
>>> George Seferis
>>>
>>> Phone or Fax::
>>> +1 (985) 360-3614
>>> Cell:
>>> +1 (985) 791-2938
>>> e-mail:
>>> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>>> Skype Name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Kevin Fjelsted" <kfjelsted at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>>>
>>>
>>> VoiceOver is absolutely awesome. A superb resource for reading
>>> details
>>> from a community perspective is http://www.lioncourt.com.
>>> I thhink that the exciting thing about VoiceOver is that the stars
>>> are
>>> aligned for us. 1) Apple is making record profits and is applying
>>> resources in support of  VoiceOver access across there entire  
>>> product
>>> line including mobile devices. The fact that the NFB technology
>>> center
>>> chooses to publish inaccuracies and propaganda
>>> which is so misleading must mean that the existing companies like
>>> Freedom Scientific are running scared and trying to rally resources
>>> to
>>> quash VoiceOver usage. When ever we see established organizations
>>> becoming defensive it is time to really dig under the covers and ask
>>> the reasons why. In my opinion every blind person who relies on
>>> accessibility technology for computers and mobile devices needs to
>>> look at VoiceOver as well as the other technologies and proactively
>>> push the envelope so that we can create momentum for transparency.  
>>> My
>>> question is, why aren't  all of the vendors  emulating the approach
>>> of
>>> VoiceOver, which is to have built in accessibility to the device out
>>> of the box without charging extra? WHen I can pay $190 for a cell
>>> phone that has built in accessibility I find that amazing compared  
>>> to
>>> spending money for a cell phone and then having to turn around and
>>> buy
>>> a 3rd party access solution that in many cases only works half  
>>> baked.
>>> Not only do I get a cell phone for $190 but I get all the built in
>>> apps talking clock, calculator, maps, weather forecasting, text
>>> messaging, address book management, calendaring including syncing
>>> with
>>> other calendars. For years blind people have taken the position that
>>> touch screens are the enemy and that we can't use them. Yet the
>>> IPhone
>>> with VoiceOver is totally dependent on the touch screen. I do
>>> everything with the touch screen look at email, update my calendar,
>>> make phone calls,....   -Kevin Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 10:26 AM,
>>> tunecollector<tunecollector at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> This subject was discussed when Voiceover first came out but has
>>>> anyone
>>>> used
>>>> it more intensively since then? Is it ready for prime time? What
>>>> are its
>>>> drawbacks.
>>>>
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>>> com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Kevin Fjelsted
>>> B Harris, Inc.
>>> http://www.bharrisinc.com
>>> kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted
>>> Phone:   612.424.7333 EX. 301
>>> Direct:  612.424.7332
>>>
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