[gui-talk] Voiceover

albert griffith albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net
Mon Jul 27 01:27:28 UTC 2009 

I guess I know just enough about computers to be dangerous.  Example: it's
difficult for me to imagine an operating system without a registry or data
base of stored information to keep it running which would need cleaning out
from time to time.  I believe you but I can't get my head around the
concept.  

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 6:15 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover

Whether voice over is up to speed depends on what you want to do. If  
you're interest is email, browsing the web, music, word processing,  
audio editing, chatting on the net, then voice over is more than up to  
handling that. There are a couple other advantages that have not been  
mentioned yet in this discussion, so I will mention them here. You can  
update or reinstall your operating system completely without sighted  
help, the install is available with speech and braille if you have a  
braille display. For example, when the new operating system comes out  
in a couple of months, we will be able to install it totally without  
sighted help, and I plan on doing a pod cast on this. Another area I  
wanted to mention is backup and restore. In windows, you can usually  
back up your system, but so far I have not found a way to restore an  
entire system with speech. It would usually need to be scripted. On  
the mac, if you have an external hard drive, you can perform a full  
system backup, then actually boot from that external drive if you need  
to. You could then restore the contents of the external drive back to  
your internal, and have speech and or braille through the entire  
process. One other thing I will mention, and this is more about the  
mac in general than with voiceover, the design of the operating system  
in my view is far superior to windows. There is no registry to clean,  
and no need to defragment the hard drive.
On Jul 26, 2009, at 2:10 PM, albert griffith wrote:

> That the screen reader is built in to the operating system is a major
> incentive for me to make the switch, however, I'd just as soon stick  
> with my
> screen reader through another computer cycle if voiceover isn't  
> quite up to
> speed.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk- 
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Arrigo
> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 9:27 AM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>
> Another great advantage of having the screen reader built in is, it
> allows developers to test for themselves the accessibility of their
> applications.
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>
>> You need only walk in to a store selling the Mac and press command f
>> 5 to
>> turn on Voice Over and play with it for yourself.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>
>> "Old friend, what are you looking for?  After those many years
>> abroad you
>> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your
>> own land"
>> George Seferis
>>
>> Phone or Fax::
>> +1 (985) 360-3614
>> Cell:
>> +1 (985) 791-2938
>> e-mail:
>> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>> Skype Name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "albert griffith" <albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>>
>>
>> Hi Ray,  I've yet to read the NFB article but I plan to soon.  We'll
>> benefit
>> from all the access points it should illuminate. Do you know if
>> Apple is
>> offering their screen reader as a demo anywhere?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-
>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:24 PM
>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>>
>> Granted, Voice over is well worth serious consideration; but, Kevin,
>> there's
>>
>> no need to get unpleasant about it.  The NFB's perspective was
>> written from
>> a Windows users point of view because that's what most blind
>> computer users
>> are familiar with.  Like it or not, this is so.  I always hear Voice
>> Over
>> users say "You can't compare the Mac to Windows.".  Fair enough.
>> So, in
>> that case, why not truly help us Windows users get to know Voice
>> Over better
>>
>> instead of just criticizing us just because we do what it is human
>> nature to
>>
>> do; compare one thing to another.  I grant you that the Mac is worth
>> serious
>>
>> consideration; and, If I wasn't still paying for this lap top, I  
>> would
>> indeed very seriously look at Voice Over.  Let me give you an
>> example of how
>>
>> Voice Over users can be more helpful.  In the NFB article, it is
>> stated that
>>
>> when you press the space bar to check or uncheck items on a web
>> page, Voice
>> Over does not tell you whether an item is checked or unchecked.  I
>> believe
>> this is true; however, there is another factor.  The article then
>> goes on to
>>
>> incorrectly state that there is no way without fumbling around, to
>> determine
>>
>> whether an item is checked or not.  As I understand it, there is a
>> special
>> Voice over key command which is used to check or uncheck items on
>> web pages.
>>
>> When this key stroke is used, Voice over will tell you at once
>> whether an
>> item is checked or unchecked.  Now, it's quite clear to me that the
>> fellow
>> reviewing Voice Over for the NFB did not know this fact.  but, I ask
>> you,
>> why did not some voice over users help him with the trouble he was
>> having?
>> Why did the NFB not seek help from Voice Over users?  Well, I think
>> I can
>> answer that one.  He wanted to deal with Voice Over from the stand
>> point of
>> a strictly out of the box experience.  IN other words, his logic was
>> this.
>> "Let me see what I can learn about Voice Over strictly from the help
>> and
>> what ever documentation I can access on my own.".  Fair enough; but,
>> let's
>> think a bit.  How many Windows users do you know who rely just on
>> the built
>> in help and what documentation they can read on their own?  Well, I
>> sure
>> don't know too many myself.  Most Windows users go to one another
>> for help
>> and we help each other.  Why, therefore, did the NFB fellow not seek
>> help in
>>
>> the same way from Mac users?  A fair question I think.  Frankly, I am
>> perfectly willing to take a look at Voice over, not so much from the
>> NFB
>> stand point; nor from a Voice Over defense point of view.  My look
>> will be
>> based a bit on both and I will be wanting to get very objective
>> information.
>>
>> I don't think I can count on either the NFB or Voice Over devotees
>> to be
>> truly objective; and, therefore, the best strategy I can think of is
>> to take
>>
>> the best of both and make your own decision.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>
>> "Old friend, what are you looking for?  After those many years
>> abroad you
>> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your
>> own land"
>> George Seferis
>>
>> Phone or Fax::
>> +1 (985) 360-3614
>> Cell:
>> +1 (985) 791-2938
>> e-mail:
>> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>> Skype Name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kevin Fjelsted" <kfjelsted at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>>
>>
>> VoiceOver is absolutely awesome. A superb resource for reading  
>> details
>> from a community perspective is http://www.lioncourt.com.
>> I thhink that the exciting thing about VoiceOver is that the stars  
>> are
>> aligned for us. 1) Apple is making record profits and is applying
>> resources in support of  VoiceOver access across there entire product
>> line including mobile devices. The fact that the NFB technology  
>> center
>> chooses to publish inaccuracies and propaganda
>> which is so misleading must mean that the existing companies like
>> Freedom Scientific are running scared and trying to rally resources  
>> to
>> quash VoiceOver usage. When ever we see established organizations
>> becoming defensive it is time to really dig under the covers and ask
>> the reasons why. In my opinion every blind person who relies on
>> accessibility technology for computers and mobile devices needs to
>> look at VoiceOver as well as the other technologies and proactively
>> push the envelope so that we can create momentum for transparency. My
>> question is, why aren't  all of the vendors  emulating the approach  
>> of
>> VoiceOver, which is to have built in accessibility to the device out
>> of the box without charging extra? WHen I can pay $190 for a cell
>> phone that has built in accessibility I find that amazing compared to
>> spending money for a cell phone and then having to turn around and  
>> buy
>> a 3rd party access solution that in many cases only works half baked.
>> Not only do I get a cell phone for $190 but I get all the built in
>> apps talking clock, calculator, maps, weather forecasting, text
>> messaging, address book management, calendaring including syncing  
>> with
>> other calendars. For years blind people have taken the position that
>> touch screens are the enemy and that we can't use them. Yet the  
>> IPhone
>> with VoiceOver is totally dependent on the touch screen. I do
>> everything with the touch screen look at email, update my calendar,
>> make phone calls,....   -Kevin Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 10:26 AM,
>> tunecollector<tunecollector at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> This subject was discussed when Voiceover first came out but has
>>> anyone
>>> used
>>> it more intensively since then? Is it ready for prime time? What
>>> are its
>>> drawbacks.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Kevin Fjelsted
>> B Harris, Inc.
>> http://www.bharrisinc.com
>> kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted
>> Phone:   612.424.7333 EX. 301
>> Direct:  612.424.7332
>>
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