[gui-talk] Voiceover
Mike Arrigo
n0oxy at charter.net
Sat Jul 25 23:55:52 UTC 2009
Hi. By the time you are ready to get your computer, mac o s 10.6 will
probably be out, there are many improvements to voice over in that
release. Am I saying that voice over is perfect? Not at all, there is
always room for improvement. I'd be curious in what way you think
voice over needs to be seasoned. You may want to check out my pod
casts on blind cool tech, many people have found them helpful. On the
windows side of things, I think serotek offers a great product, and
have suggested it to many people who choose to stay with windows.
On Jul 25, 2009, at 4:47 PM, albert griffith wrote:
> Ray, you've nearly mirrored my point of view relative to voiceover.
> I'm
> going to purchase a computer by year's end so I'm reviewing many
> operating
> systems
> With a real critical eye. The screen reader developed by Apple has my
> attention for obvious reasons. Since it's built in I'll save allot
> of cash
> over time if it will perform adequately. My chief concerns are
> availability
> and the accessibility of the programs I most often use. I consider
> myself
> quite tech savvy but I'm finding many of those with experience with
> the
> system are real tech oriented so their need for a clean out-of-box
> experience isn't as important to them. I'm open to any comparative
> appraisals of the two screen readers. If I had to go with an
> operating
> system and screen reader today I'd remove voiceover from my list of
> choices
> because I believe although without much evidence that it needs a
> little
> seasoning. I'm predicting it will work real well on my next machine
> which
> I'll probably buy in 2013 or 14 but I'm not so sure that I'm ready
> to stop
> my evaluations. I'm also considering hooking up with Serotek's mobile
> network. It not only works well with many programs but the price is
> right.
> Any articles you or anyone else could point me too will be
> appreciated. The
> information we gather as list members will help all of us. On one
> level I'm
> frustrated with the number of choices we have but I'm also grateful
> for
> them.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:24 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>
> Granted, Voice over is well worth serious consideration; but, Kevin,
> there's
>
> no need to get unpleasant about it. The NFB's perspective was
> written from
> a Windows users point of view because that's what most blind
> computer users
> are familiar with. Like it or not, this is so. I always hear Voice
> Over
> users say "You can't compare the Mac to Windows.". Fair enough.
> So, in
> that case, why not truly help us Windows users get to know Voice
> Over better
>
> instead of just criticizing us just because we do what it is human
> nature to
>
> do; compare one thing to another. I grant you that the Mac is worth
> serious
>
> consideration; and, If I wasn't still paying for this lap top, I would
> indeed very seriously look at Voice Over. Let me give you an
> example of how
>
> Voice Over users can be more helpful. In the NFB article, it is
> stated that
>
> when you press the space bar to check or uncheck items on a web
> page, Voice
> Over does not tell you whether an item is checked or unchecked. I
> believe
> this is true; however, there is another factor. The article then
> goes on to
>
> incorrectly state that there is no way without fumbling around, to
> determine
>
> whether an item is checked or not. As I understand it, there is a
> special
> Voice over key command which is used to check or uncheck items on
> web pages.
>
> When this key stroke is used, Voice over will tell you at once
> whether an
> item is checked or unchecked. Now, it's quite clear to me that the
> fellow
> reviewing Voice Over for the NFB did not know this fact. but, I ask
> you,
> why did not some voice over users help him with the trouble he was
> having?
> Why did the NFB not seek help from Voice Over users? Well, I think
> I can
> answer that one. He wanted to deal with Voice Over from the stand
> point of
> a strictly out of the box experience. IN other words, his logic was
> this.
> "Let me see what I can learn about Voice Over strictly from the help
> and
> what ever documentation I can access on my own.". Fair enough; but,
> let's
> think a bit. How many Windows users do you know who rely just on
> the built
> in help and what documentation they can read on their own? Well, I
> sure
> don't know too many myself. Most Windows users go to one another
> for help
> and we help each other. Why, therefore, did the NFB fellow not seek
> help in
>
> the same way from Mac users? A fair question I think. Frankly, I am
> perfectly willing to take a look at Voice over, not so much from the
> NFB
> stand point; nor from a Voice Over defense point of view. My look
> will be
> based a bit on both and I will be wanting to get very objective
> information.
>
> I don't think I can count on either the NFB or Voice Over devotees
> to be
> truly objective; and, therefore, the best strategy I can think of is
> to take
>
> the best of both and make your own decision.
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>
> "Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years
> abroad you
> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your
> own land"
> George Seferis
>
> Phone or Fax::
> +1 (985) 360-3614
> Cell:
> +1 (985) 791-2938
> e-mail:
> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Fjelsted" <kfjelsted at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>
>
> VoiceOver is absolutely awesome. A superb resource for reading details
> from a community perspective is http://www.lioncourt.com.
> I thhink that the exciting thing about VoiceOver is that the stars are
> aligned for us. 1) Apple is making record profits and is applying
> resources in support of VoiceOver access across there entire product
> line including mobile devices. The fact that the NFB technology center
> chooses to publish inaccuracies and propaganda
> which is so misleading must mean that the existing companies like
> Freedom Scientific are running scared and trying to rally resources to
> quash VoiceOver usage. When ever we see established organizations
> becoming defensive it is time to really dig under the covers and ask
> the reasons why. In my opinion every blind person who relies on
> accessibility technology for computers and mobile devices needs to
> look at VoiceOver as well as the other technologies and proactively
> push the envelope so that we can create momentum for transparency. My
> question is, why aren't all of the vendors emulating the approach of
> VoiceOver, which is to have built in accessibility to the device out
> of the box without charging extra? WHen I can pay $190 for a cell
> phone that has built in accessibility I find that amazing compared to
> spending money for a cell phone and then having to turn around and buy
> a 3rd party access solution that in many cases only works half baked.
> Not only do I get a cell phone for $190 but I get all the built in
> apps talking clock, calculator, maps, weather forecasting, text
> messaging, address book management, calendaring including syncing with
> other calendars. For years blind people have taken the position that
> touch screens are the enemy and that we can't use them. Yet the IPhone
> with VoiceOver is totally dependent on the touch screen. I do
> everything with the touch screen look at email, update my calendar,
> make phone calls,.... -Kevin Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 10:26 AM,
> tunecollector<tunecollector at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> This subject was discussed when Voiceover first came out but has
>> anyone
>> used
>> it more intensively since then? Is it ready for prime time? What
>> are its
>> drawbacks.
>>
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>
>
> --
> Kevin Fjelsted
> B Harris, Inc.
> http://www.bharrisinc.com
> kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted
> Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301
> Direct: 612.424.7332
>
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