[gui-talk] Voiceover

Sat Jul 25 23:19:50 UTC 2009

Hi Ray,  I've yet to read the NFB article but I plan to soon.  We'll benefit
from all the access points it should illuminate. Do you know if Apple is
offering their screen reader as a demo anywhere?      

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:24 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover

Granted, Voice over is well worth serious consideration; but, Kevin, there's

no need to get unpleasant about it.  The NFB's perspective was written from 
a Windows users point of view because that's what most blind computer users 
are familiar with.  Like it or not, this is so.  I always hear Voice Over 
users say "You can't compare the Mac to Windows.".  Fair enough.  So, in 
that case, why not truly help us Windows users get to know Voice Over better

instead of just criticizing us just because we do what it is human nature to

do; compare one thing to another.  I grant you that the Mac is worth serious

consideration; and, If I wasn't still paying for this lap top, I would 
indeed very seriously look at Voice Over.  Let me give you an example of how

Voice Over users can be more helpful.  In the NFB article, it is stated that

when you press the space bar to check or uncheck items on a web page, Voice 
Over does not tell you whether an item is checked or unchecked.  I  believe 
this is true; however, there is another factor.  The article then goes on to

incorrectly state that there is no way without fumbling around, to determine

whether an item is checked or not.  As I understand it, there is a special 
Voice over key command which is used to check or uncheck items on web pages.

When this key stroke is used, Voice over will tell you at once whether an 
item is checked or unchecked.  Now, it's quite clear to me that the fellow 
reviewing Voice Over for the NFB did not know this fact.  but, I ask you, 
why did not some voice over users help him with the trouble he was having? 
Why did the NFB not seek help from Voice Over users?  Well, I think I can 
answer that one.  He wanted to deal with Voice Over from the stand point of 
a strictly out of the box experience.  IN other words, his logic was this. 
"Let me see what I can learn about Voice Over strictly from the help and 
what ever documentation I can access on my own.".  Fair enough; but, let's 
think a bit.  How many Windows users do you know who rely just on the built 
in help and what documentation they can read on their own?  Well, I sure 
don't know too many myself.  Most Windows users go to one another for help 
and we help each other.  Why, therefore, did the NFB fellow not seek help in

the same way from Mac users?  A fair question I think.  Frankly, I am 
perfectly willing to take a look at Voice over, not so much from the NFB 
stand point; nor from a Voice Over defense point of view.  My look will be 
based a bit on both and I will be wanting to get very objective information.

I don't think I can count on either the NFB or Voice Over devotees to be 
truly objective; and, therefore, the best strategy I can think of is to take

the best of both and make your own decision.

Sincerely,
The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray

"Old friend, what are you looking for?  After those many years abroad you 
come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your own land"
George Seferis

Phone or Fax::
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Fjelsted" <kfjelsted at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover

VoiceOver is absolutely awesome. A superb resource for reading details
from a community perspective is http://www.lioncourt.com.
I thhink that the exciting thing about VoiceOver is that the stars are
aligned for us. 1) Apple is making record profits and is applying
resources in support of  VoiceOver access across there entire product
line including mobile devices. The fact that the NFB technology center
chooses to publish inaccuracies and propaganda
which is so misleading must mean that the existing companies like
Freedom Scientific are running scared and trying to rally resources to
quash VoiceOver usage. When ever we see established organizations
becoming defensive it is time to really dig under the covers and ask
the reasons why. In my opinion every blind person who relies on
accessibility technology for computers and mobile devices needs to
look at VoiceOver as well as the other technologies and proactively
push the envelope so that we can create momentum for transparency. My
question is, why aren't  all of the vendors  emulating the approach of
VoiceOver, which is to have built in accessibility to the device out
of the box without charging extra? WHen I can pay $190 for a cell
phone that has built in accessibility I find that amazing compared to
spending money for a cell phone and then having to turn around and buy
a 3rd party access solution that in many cases only works half baked.
Not only do I get a cell phone for $190 but I get all the built in
apps talking clock, calculator, maps, weather forecasting, text
messaging, address book management, calendaring including syncing with
other calendars. For years blind people have taken the position that
touch screens are the enemy and that we can't use them. Yet the IPhone
with VoiceOver is totally dependent on the touch screen. I do
everything with the touch screen look at email, update my calendar,
make phone calls,....   -Kevin Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 10:26 AM,
tunecollector<tunecollector at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> This subject was discussed when Voiceover first came out but has anyone 
> used
> it more intensively since then? Is it ready for prime time? What are its
> drawbacks.
>
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-- 
Kevin Fjelsted
B Harris, Inc.
http://www.bharrisinc.com
kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted
Phone:   612.424.7333 EX. 301
Direct:  612.424.7332

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