[gui-talk] Voiceover
Mike Arrigo
n0oxy at charter.net
Sat Jul 25 23:48:16 UTC 2009
That was the big mistake of this article, the concept seemed to be,
windows does it this way, and if the mac does it differently, it's a
problem. There are several similarities between the mac and windows,
but expecting the mac to work the exact same way is a recipe for
frustration. In my pod casts on blindcooltech, I try my best to make
comparisons when they're appropriate, but also remind the listener
that it's not windows, and therefore will not behave the same.
On Jul 25, 2009, at 2:24 PM, Ray Foret jr wrote:
> Granted, Voice over is well worth serious consideration; but, Kevin,
> there's
> no need to get unpleasant about it. The NFB's perspective was
> written from
> a Windows users point of view because that's what most blind
> computer users
> are familiar with. Like it or not, this is so. I always hear Voice
> Over
> users say "You can't compare the Mac to Windows.". Fair enough.
> So, in
> that case, why not truly help us Windows users get to know Voice
> Over better
> instead of just criticizing us just because we do what it is human
> nature to
> do; compare one thing to another. I grant you that the Mac is worth
> serious
> consideration; and, If I wasn't still paying for this lap top, I would
> indeed very seriously look at Voice Over. Let me give you an
> example of how
> Voice Over users can be more helpful. In the NFB article, it is
> stated that
> when you press the space bar to check or uncheck items on a web
> page, Voice
> Over does not tell you whether an item is checked or unchecked. I
> believe
> this is true; however, there is another factor. The article then
> goes on to
> incorrectly state that there is no way without fumbling around, to
> determine
> whether an item is checked or not. As I understand it, there is a
> special
> Voice over key command which is used to check or uncheck items on
> web pages.
> When this key stroke is used, Voice over will tell you at once
> whether an
> item is checked or unchecked. Now, it's quite clear to me that the
> fellow
> reviewing Voice Over for the NFB did not know this fact. but, I ask
> you,
> why did not some voice over users help him with the trouble he was
> having?
> Why did the NFB not seek help from Voice Over users? Well, I think
> I can
> answer that one. He wanted to deal with Voice Over from the stand
> point of
> a strictly out of the box experience. IN other words, his logic was
> this.
> "Let me see what I can learn about Voice Over strictly from the help
> and
> what ever documentation I can access on my own.". Fair enough; but,
> let's
> think a bit. How many Windows users do you know who rely just on
> the built
> in help and what documentation they can read on their own? Well, I
> sure
> don't know too many myself. Most Windows users go to one another
> for help
> and we help each other. Why, therefore, did the NFB fellow not seek
> help in
> the same way from Mac users? A fair question I think. Frankly, I am
> perfectly willing to take a look at Voice over, not so much from the
> NFB
> stand point; nor from a Voice Over defense point of view. My look
> will be
> based a bit on both and I will be wanting to get very objective
> information.
> I don't think I can count on either the NFB or Voice Over devotees
> to be
> truly objective; and, therefore, the best strategy I can think of is
> to take
> the best of both and make your own decision.
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>
> "Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years
> abroad you
> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your
> own land"
> George Seferis
>
> Phone or Fax::
> +1 (985) 360-3614
> Cell:
> +1 (985) 791-2938
> e-mail:
> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Fjelsted" <kfjelsted at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>
>
> VoiceOver is absolutely awesome. A superb resource for reading details
> from a community perspective is http://www.lioncourt.com.
> I thhink that the exciting thing about VoiceOver is that the stars are
> aligned for us. 1) Apple is making record profits and is applying
> resources in support of VoiceOver access across there entire product
> line including mobile devices. The fact that the NFB technology center
> chooses to publish inaccuracies and propaganda
> which is so misleading must mean that the existing companies like
> Freedom Scientific are running scared and trying to rally resources to
> quash VoiceOver usage. When ever we see established organizations
> becoming defensive it is time to really dig under the covers and ask
> the reasons why. In my opinion every blind person who relies on
> accessibility technology for computers and mobile devices needs to
> look at VoiceOver as well as the other technologies and proactively
> push the envelope so that we can create momentum for transparency. My
> question is, why aren't all of the vendors emulating the approach of
> VoiceOver, which is to have built in accessibility to the device out
> of the box without charging extra? WHen I can pay $190 for a cell
> phone that has built in accessibility I find that amazing compared to
> spending money for a cell phone and then having to turn around and buy
> a 3rd party access solution that in many cases only works half baked.
> Not only do I get a cell phone for $190 but I get all the built in
> apps talking clock, calculator, maps, weather forecasting, text
> messaging, address book management, calendaring including syncing with
> other calendars. For years blind people have taken the position that
> touch screens are the enemy and that we can't use them. Yet the IPhone
> with VoiceOver is totally dependent on the touch screen. I do
> everything with the touch screen look at email, update my calendar,
> make phone calls,.... -Kevin Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 10:26 AM,
> tunecollector<tunecollector at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> This subject was discussed when Voiceover first came out but has
>> anyone
>> used
>> it more intensively since then? Is it ready for prime time? What
>> are its
>> drawbacks.
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Kevin Fjelsted
> B Harris, Inc.
> http://www.bharrisinc.com
> kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted
> Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301
> Direct: 612.424.7332
>
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