[Reader-users] i dont get it

David Evans drevans at bellsouth.net
Fri Feb 22 20:21:01 CST 2008 

Dear Sir,

I don't currently have Curtis's Contact info.
You will have to contact him through the National HQ in Baltimore.
Sorry,

David Evans, NFBF
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "william lomas" <lomaswilliam at googlemail.com>
To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list" 
<reader-users at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it


> david please reply privately off list if you woudln't mind giving me
> the address fore mr. kirt chong
>
> On 22 Feb 2008, at 11:25, David Evans wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I do not know if it is available outside the U.S.
>> You will have to enquire with Curtis Chong and the National HQ in
>> Baltimore.
>> The biggest thing is to show that you do have the means to pay it
>> back and
>> that you pay your bills on time.
>> You can always look for grants too.
>> There are some foundations and organizations that give grants to
>> individuals.
>> I have gotten them before myself.
>>
>> David Evans, NFBF
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "william lomas" <lomaswilliam at googlemail.com>
>> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 5:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>>
>>
>>> hi is this loan available tot hose otuside USA?
>>>
>>> On 21 Feb 2008, at 04:11, David Evans wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>> l
>>>> There is something else that people are forgetting that was also
>>>> mentioned
>>>> when the New KNFB Reader -Mobile was introduced.
>>>> The NFB offers a 3% loan program for the purchase of technology and
>>>> has for
>>>> years.
>>>> The person that handles the program is Curtis Chong and the papers
>>>> to fil
>>>> out for the loan program can be had by contacting the National
>>>> Offices in
>>>> Baltimore.
>>>> They treat it like any other loan as a bank would do, but the loan
>>>> pay back
>>>> is only 3%.
>>>> The seed money came from some business men years ago with the
>>>> agreement that
>>>> the 3% would be used to make more loans.  How many other
>>>> organizations do
>>>> this?
>>>> They do make sure that you have the means to pay the loan back.  In
>>>> the
>>>> beginning the NFB made loans to number of blind people who never
>>>> paid their
>>>> loans back and took off with the equipment.
>>>> The NFB is not set up to reposes equipment when blind people default
>>>> and
>>>> don't pay their debts as they should.
>>>> Therefore, they now make sure that you have the means and history of
>>>> paying
>>>> your bills and loans.
>>>> Anyone can get the loan and you don't have to be a member of the
>>>> NFB.  I
>>>> have never seen the ACB offer anything like this?
>>>> The NFB stuck its neck out for the good of the Blind in funding the
>>>> R and D
>>>> work for machines that would read to us and the new KNFB Reader-
>>>> Mobile is
>>>> just the newest evolutions in this effort.
>>>> I have not seen the ACB spend money on such things.
>>>> All of you people who have been critazi ng the NFB and calling it
>>>> "money
>>>> grubbing" don't know your heads from your behinds.
>>>> Talk about ungrateful?
>>>> Without the money NFB invested in the research back in the 1970's
>>>> with
>>>> Doctor K, we would not have the flat bed scanner, OCR software and
>>>> allot of
>>>> other things.
>>>> The NFB is the only organization that has put its money where its
>>>> mouth is
>>>> and we have all benefited for it.
>>>> Just so you know.  I have many friends in the ACB and know that
>>>> there are
>>>> many good people in it as wellas the NFB.  But I know of nothing
>>>> they have
>>>> contributed as has the NFB.
>>>> I feel very thankful that I found the NFB and the great people in
>>>> it.
>>>> It may take me awhile, but I know that I will get a KNFB Reader
>>>> Mobile
>>>> someday as I see it as the "Swiss ARMY knife for the Blind".
>>>> I can not think of any other device that will do so much for so few.
>>>> Let's stop griping and figure out how we can get more things like
>>>> the KNFB
>>>> Reader-Mobile into the hands of Blind people.
>>>> The older KNFB Reader Classic will still do what it was designed to
>>>> do, so
>>>> why get upset.  It was what you wanted when you bought it.    That
>>>> has not
>>>> changed.  Use it and be happy.
>>>>
>>>> David Evans, NFBF
>>>> Nuclear/Aerospace Materials Engineer
>>>> Builder of the Lunar Rovers and the F-117-A Stealth Fighter
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Curtis Delzer" <curtis at calweb.com>
>>>> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>>>> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:38 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You can connect a keyboard to the phone and operate it much like
>>>>> you would
>>>>> a
>>>>> computer, e.g. get email, surf the web, on top of making and/ or
>>>>> receiving
>>>>> phone calls, even use skype with it? ... wow, and then, wow again,
>>>>> seems
>>>>> to
>>>>> me that the reader is becoming a device which can handle all your
>>>>> most
>>>>> used
>>>>> computers needs, for communication, especially. I don't yet
>>>>> envision
>>>>> burning
>>>>> CDs with it or writing complex audio like Sound Forge, but ... I am
>>>>> probably
>>>>> wrong or will be made wrong, in just a few short years, if not
>>>>> already. :)
>>>>> This is the beginning of 2008, only that! Talk about access, seems
>>>>> to me
>>>>> we're getting just about all the right kinds of access now, let
>>>>> alone in a
>>>>> year or three.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wish I had a couple thousand and a half hundred more dollars to
>>>>> do all
>>>>> this right now. Those who spent $3000 or so a couple years ago, I
>>>>> can
>>>>> understand somewhat the frustration a bit, but $500 for a complete
>>>>> upgrade
>>>>> of the software which recognizes, talks, handles the OS in the
>>>>> phone, and
>>>>> then, getting a first rate cell phone like the N82, for another
>>>>> $475 or so
>>>>> just is the opening salvo it seems to me in our assault in the
>>>>> access
>>>>> world
>>>>> of communications is truly phenomenal. These phones can only
>>>>> improve, and
>>>>> with more improvement, can only become less complex, more
>>>>> complexity
>>>>> under
>>>>> the hood, sure, but easier for the end user. The more the cell
>>>>> phones
>>>>> improve, the better the reader becomes, let alone becoming a better
>>>>> communications aid. Look at how much easier it is with this first
>>>>> major
>>>>> upgrading of the software, as far as the interface with the user is
>>>>> concerned, how much easier it is to direct the camera because fewer
>>>>> potential skewing, (look ma, no cords), and few batteries to change
>>>>> or
>>>>> charge, fewer pieces of hardware to handle, etc. etc.
>>>>> I bet in a couple years, there will be another device which does
>>>>> more, but
>>>>> there isn't much you can do except shrink the unit into a smaller
>>>>> device,
>>>>> which really isn't productive enough to justify a huge price
>>>>> increase, to
>>>>> probably a good bit of development of third party software will be
>>>>> the
>>>>> main
>>>>> issues for a few years, and the adoption of this software into a
>>>>> newer
>>>>> phone, is all, that'll probably happen. I submit that this handling
>>>>> of the
>>>>> reader by a cell phone is a major breakthrough, not just an
>>>>> innovation,
>>>>> but
>>>>> a major breakthrough. How many million cell phones are there, and
>>>>> then,
>>>>> how
>>>>> many classic readers are there? Do the math and realize that to
>>>>> have what
>>>>> we
>>>>> need in a device that is not specialized like the classic reader,
>>>>> is a
>>>>> major
>>>>> coups for KNFB. How many companies have taken the bull by the horns
>>>>> and
>>>>> gone
>>>>> ahead and developed this technology for us to enjoy, and why the
>>>>> hell
>>>>> shouldn't they profit from it? I don't mean exorbitantly profit,
>>>>> but
>>>>> decently? Any work you do for anyone you should be paid for it,
>>>>> especially
>>>>> when the work you do is specialized, and in a field which takes
>>>>> expertise
>>>>> to
>>>>> handle, and takes a bit of schooling for you to gain that
>>>>> expertise,
>>>>> decent
>>>>> compensation should be made to you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Curtis Delzer
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Evelyn Weckerly" <weckerly at i2k.com>
>>>>> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>>>>> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:24 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been purchasing high tech stuff for just about 20 years now. I
>>>>> have seen features added, but the price has always remained the
>>>>> same,
>>>>> or, in the case of screen readers, gone up somewhat. The KNFB
>>>>> Reader
>>>>> is the fist device I know of that has steadily gone down in price.
>>>>> Had I had any inkling that that would happen, I very well might
>>>>> have
>>>>> waited instead of buying one of the first ones almost two years
>>>>> ago.
>>>>> I have adjusted my insurance on the unit once and will have to do
>>>>> so
>>>>> again whether I upgrade or not. Buying new, you will have seen a
>>>>> price reduction of $400 this year. Last year the price was
>>>>> reduced by
>>>>> $1000. Pray, tell, complainers, can you name any other piece of
>>>>> adaptive technology for which that has happened? I'm not
>>>>> complaining
>>>>> about other good companies, but I think the complainers on this
>>>>> list
>>>>> need a history lesson so that they can put things into perspective.
>>>>> Sure, I can sit here and complain about what I spent almost two
>>>>> yers
>>>>> ago, but I was proud to be no. 13 to purchase. The development of
>>>>> adaptive tech is highly labor-intensive and requires people who are
>>>>> highly skilled and know what they are doing. I'm very thankful that
>>>>> people who purchase now for the first time will pay a little over
>>>>> half what we pioneers paid. So let's put things in perspective and
>>>>> get on with helping one another. I would be glad to correspond with
>>>>> anyone offlist who would like more details about my experience with
>>>>> all this stuff (smile). Thanks to all who read to the end of this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Evelyn
>>>>>
>>>>> At 12:09 PM 2/20/2008, you wrote:
>>>>>> In the interview I did for Blind Bargains, James Gashel said the
>>>>>> software,
>>>>>> other than the user interface, was basically rewritten to account
>>>>>> for the
>>>>>> difference in distance of taking a picture and the varied design
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> camera. Not to mention the Symbian operating system of the phone
>>>>>> compared
>>>>>> with that of the PDA. If you're upgrading your reader, you're not
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> paying for lots of R&D, your $500 is for the newer version of the
>>>>>> software
>>>>>> which has been reengineered. If you're a new user, you're paying
>>>>>> $1,595,
>>>>>> which is less than half of the original cost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't believe JAWS, the Braille Note, braille printers, and many
>>>>>> others
>>>>>> dropped their price by over half in two years, or even at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The cost of the phone gets you much more than just a reader. The
>>>>>> phone is
>>>>>> one of the most high-end on the market and many of us, myself
>>>>>> included,
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be using it in place of a PDA or dedicated notetaker.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J.J.
>>>>>> www.BlindBargains.com
>>>>>> Deals, news, and resources for the blind and visually impaired
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Vidya" <joshvidya at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>>>>>> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:00 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can understand Kurzweil's motives of profiteering, but not that
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> NFB's.
>>>>>>> For one time, one can willingly pay in the name of r&d expenses
>>>>>>> but not
>>>>>>> twice. It is not a new software, mind you, a tweaked one to
>>>>>>> suit a
>>>>>>> mobile
>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>>>>>>> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:04 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, no one must switch to the new reader.  There is an upgrade
>>>>>>>> offer
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> made, but there's no requirement to upgrade now.  Kurzweil
>>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> offer a discount, at all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Vidya" <joshvidya at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>>>>>>>> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:48 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NFB at least should pressurize Ray Kurzweil to give a cheaper
>>>>>>>> upgrade
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> KNFB mobile software to its initial buyers.
>>>>>>>> Why are the same people expected to pay twice for the R&D?
>>>>>>>> Or does NFB get some commission on each sale?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Keith and Tracy" <hear2c at mchsi.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>>>>>>>> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:06 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think one of the reasons they are jumping to a cell phoone is
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> PDA
>>>>>>>>> is no longer available from Fuji, which, I guess, is the maker
>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>> version KNFB used originally.  As for the hardware being tapped
>>>>>>>>> out,
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> it's a bit too much for consumers to chew.  I'm sure there is
>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> update the hardware wireing/chipsets or something to allow for
>>>>>>>>> expansion
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the software.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Another thing is that I think people were complainng on how
>>>>>>>>> bulky the
>>>>>>>>> classic reader is.  I personally don't think it's that bad, but
>>>>>>>>> whatever.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Keith
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user
>>>>>>>>> list"
>>>>>>>>> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 7:36 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is not my experience.  Some people can get someone else
>>>>>>>>>> to buy
>>>>>>>>>> access
>>>>>>>>>> equipment, and some people can't.  My employer bought the
>>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>>> I have at work.  I bought the one I have at home.  I bought my
>>>>>>>>>> KNFB
>>>>>>>>>> reader.  Plenty of other people I know also bought their
>>>>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>>>>> themselves, getting the money together one way or another.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But I'm with the guy who started this tread.  How can a cell
>>>>>>>>>> phone
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> better stronger faster than a PDA?  The PDA's not that old.
>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>> make sense to me.
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think it is a good deal easier for americans to obtain
>>>>>>>>>>> equipment.
>>>>>>>>>>> There access for employers and so on is a good deal better
>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>>>>> in the UK. If your blind over there you get braille displays
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> because you sort of want them. Over here we have to justify,
>>>>>>>>>>> justify,
>>>>>>>>>>> justify etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Best
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -James-
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4 Feb 2008, at 12:33, Keith and Tracy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you are mistaken about the  funding aspect.  The
>>>>>>>>>>>> deaf has
>>>>>>>>>>>> closed
>>>>>>>>>>>> captioning on TV shows and movies, which is madated by the
>>>>>>>>>>>> feds.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The tv and
>>>>>>>>>>>> movie studeios have lobbyists up the wazoo, telling congress
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> they don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> want to fund Descriptive video for shoes and movies.  If you
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> talking
>>>>>>>>>>>> aobut Lion's clubs, even Iraq has Lion's clubs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Keith
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "william lomas" <lomaswilliam at googlemail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user
>>>>>>>>>>>> list"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:28 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hi all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how have they maxed out the hardware of that PDA for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> classic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is ten times faster than an average mobile phone is much
>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>>> faster, and no one is going to fund you buying a phone to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OCR
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it if you want it for a job
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you guys are all blinded by technology it hillarious
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so what it is a mboile phone? big deal, 90 percent of us
>>>>>>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>> own them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you'll ahve to buy a new phone? oh it ok as you US guys get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>> phones, funding for this, funding for that, we get nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> UK
>>>>>>>>>>>>> i feel so sorry for those people who brought the classic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> example,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> were told it would work in their langauge i.e to read
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spanish
>>>>>>>>>>>>> french
>>>>>>>>>>>>> german, and are now told thanks for your money but we are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scrweing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> over, buy out new product now to get what you should have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> had int
>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>> old one it pathetic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reader-users mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________ NOD32 2846 (20080204) Information __________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Reader-users mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Reader-users mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Reader-users mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________ NOD32 2846 (20080204) Information __________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Reader-users mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Reader-users mailing list
>>>>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Reader-users mailing list
>>>>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Reader-users mailing list
>>>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Reader-users mailing list
>>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Reader-users mailing list
>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Reader-users mailing list
>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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