[Reader-users] i dont get it

David Evans drevans at bellsouth.net
Wed Feb 20 22:11:23 CST 2008 

Dear All,
l
There is something else that people are forgetting that was also mentioned 
when the New KNFB Reader -Mobile was introduced.
The NFB offers a 3% loan program for the purchase of technology and has for 
years.
The person that handles the program is Curtis Chong and the papers to fil 
out for the loan program can be had by contacting the National Offices in 
Baltimore.
They treat it like any other loan as a bank would do, but the loan pay back 
is only 3%.
The seed money came from some business men years ago with the agreement that 
the 3% would be used to make more loans.  How many other organizations do 
this?
They do make sure that you have the means to pay the loan back.  In the 
beginning the NFB made loans to number of blind people who never paid their 
loans back and took off with the equipment.
The NFB is not set up to reposes equipment when blind people default and 
don't pay their debts as they should.
Therefore, they now make sure that you have the means and history of paying 
your bills and loans.
Anyone can get the loan and you don't have to be a member of the NFB.  I 
have never seen the ACB offer anything like this?
The NFB stuck its neck out for the good of the Blind in funding the R and D 
work for machines that would read to us and the new KNFB Reader-Mobile is 
just the newest evolutions in this effort.
I have not seen the ACB spend money on such things.
All of you people who have been critazi ng the NFB and calling it "money 
grubbing" don't know your heads from your behinds.
Talk about ungrateful?
Without the money NFB invested in the research back in the 1970's with 
Doctor K, we would not have the flat bed scanner, OCR software and allot of 
other things.
The NFB is the only organization that has put its money where its mouth is 
and we have all benefited for it.
Just so you know.  I have many friends in the ACB and know that there are 
many good people in it as wellas the NFB.  But I know of nothing they have 
contributed as has the NFB.
I feel very thankful that I found the NFB and the great people in it.
It may take me awhile, but I know that I will get a KNFB Reader Mobile 
someday as I see it as the "Swiss ARMY knife for the Blind".
I can not think of any other device that will do so much for so few.
Let's stop griping and figure out how we can get more things like the KNFB 
Reader-Mobile into the hands of Blind people.
The older KNFB Reader Classic will still do what it was designed to do, so 
why get upset.  It was what you wanted when you bought it.    That has not 
changed.  Use it and be happy.

David Evans, NFBF
Nuclear/Aerospace Materials Engineer
Builder of the Lunar Rovers and the F-117-A Stealth Fighter

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Curtis Delzer" <curtis at calweb.com>
To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list" 
<reader-users at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it


> You can connect a keyboard to the phone and operate it much like you would 
> a
> computer, e.g. get email, surf the web, on top of making and/ or receiving
> phone calls, even use skype with it? ... wow, and then, wow again, seems 
> to
> me that the reader is becoming a device which can handle all your most 
> used
> computers needs, for communication, especially. I don't yet envision 
> burning
> CDs with it or writing complex audio like Sound Forge, but ... I am 
> probably
> wrong or will be made wrong, in just a few short years, if not already. :)
> This is the beginning of 2008, only that! Talk about access, seems to me
> we're getting just about all the right kinds of access now, let alone in a
> year or three.
>
> I wish I had a couple thousand and a half hundred more dollars to do all
> this right now. Those who spent $3000 or so a couple years ago, I can
> understand somewhat the frustration a bit, but $500 for a complete upgrade
> of the software which recognizes, talks, handles the OS in the phone, and
> then, getting a first rate cell phone like the N82, for another $475 or so
> just is the opening salvo it seems to me in our assault in the access 
> world
> of communications is truly phenomenal. These phones can only improve, and
> with more improvement, can only become less complex, more  complexity 
> under
> the hood, sure, but easier for the end user. The more the cell phones
> improve, the better the reader becomes, let alone becoming a better
> communications aid. Look at how much easier it is with this first major
> upgrading of the software, as far as the interface with the user is
> concerned, how much easier it is to direct the camera because fewer
> potential skewing, (look ma, no cords), and few batteries to change or
> charge, fewer pieces of hardware to handle, etc. etc.
> I bet in a couple years, there will be another device which does more, but
> there isn't much you can do except shrink the unit into a smaller device,
> which really isn't productive enough to justify a huge price increase, to
> probably a good bit of development of third party software will be the 
> main
> issues for a few years, and the adoption of this software into a newer
> phone, is all, that'll probably happen. I submit that this handling of the
> reader by a cell phone is a major breakthrough, not just an innovation, 
> but
> a major breakthrough. How many million cell phones are there, and then, 
> how
> many classic readers are there? Do the math and realize that to have what 
> we
> need in a device that is not specialized like the classic reader, is a 
> major
> coups for KNFB. How many companies have taken the bull by the horns and 
> gone
> ahead and developed this technology for us to enjoy, and why the hell
> shouldn't they profit from it? I don't mean exorbitantly profit, but
> decently? Any work you do for anyone you should be paid for it, especially
> when the work you do is specialized, and in a field which takes expertise 
> to
> handle, and takes a bit of schooling for you to gain that expertise, 
> decent
> compensation should be made to you.
>
>
>
>
> Curtis Delzer
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Evelyn Weckerly" <weckerly at i2k.com>
> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been purchasing high tech stuff for just about 20 years now. I
> have seen features added, but the price has always remained the same,
> or, in the case of screen readers, gone up somewhat. The KNFB Reader
> is the fist device I know of that has steadily gone down in price.
> Had I had any inkling that that would happen, I very well might have
> waited instead of buying one of the first ones almost two years ago.
> I have adjusted my insurance on the unit once and will have to do so
> again whether I upgrade or not. Buying new, you will have seen a
> price reduction of $400 this year. Last year the price was reduced by
> $1000. Pray, tell, complainers, can you name any other piece of
> adaptive technology for which that has happened? I'm not complaining
> about other good companies, but I think the complainers on this list
> need a history lesson so that they can put things into perspective.
> Sure, I can sit here and complain about what I spent almost two yers
> ago, but I was proud to be no. 13 to purchase. The development of
> adaptive tech is highly labor-intensive and requires people who are
> highly skilled and know what they are doing. I'm very thankful that
> people who purchase now for the first time will pay a little over
> half what we pioneers paid. So let's put things in perspective and
> get on with helping one another. I would be glad to correspond with
> anyone offlist who would like more details about my experience with
> all this stuff (smile). Thanks to all who read to the end of this.
>
> Regards,
>
> Evelyn
>
> At 12:09 PM 2/20/2008, you wrote:
>>In the interview I did for Blind Bargains, James Gashel said the software,
>>other than the user interface, was basically rewritten to account for the
>>difference in distance of taking a picture and the varied design of the
>>camera. Not to mention the Symbian operating system of the phone compared
>>with that of the PDA. If you're upgrading your reader, you're not really
>>paying for lots of R&D, your $500 is for the newer version of the software
>>which has been reengineered. If you're a new user, you're paying $1,595,
>>which is less than half of the original cost.
>>
>>I don't believe JAWS, the Braille Note, braille printers, and many others
>>dropped their price by over half in two years, or even at all.
>>
>>The cost of the phone gets you much more than just a reader. The phone is
>>one of the most high-end on the market and many of us, myself included,
>>will
>>be using it in place of a PDA or dedicated notetaker.
>>
>>Hope this helps.
>>
>>
>>
>>J.J.
>>www.BlindBargains.com
>>Deals, news, and resources for the blind and visually impaired
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Vidya" <joshvidya at gmail.com>
>>To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>><reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:00 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>>
>>
>> >I can understand Kurzweil's motives of profiteering, but not that of
>> >NFB's.
>> > For one time, one can willingly pay in the name of r&d expenses but not
>> > twice. It is not a new software, mind you, a tweaked one to suit a
>> > mobile
>> > phone.
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
>> > To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>> > <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:04 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>> >
>> >
>> >> Well, no one must switch to the new reader.  There is an upgrade offer
>> >> being
>> >> made, but there's no requirement to upgrade now.  Kurzweil wouldn't
>> >> have
>> >> to
>> >> offer a discount, at all.
>> >>
>> >> Cindy
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Vidya" <joshvidya at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>> >> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:48 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> NFB at least should pressurize Ray Kurzweil to give a cheaper upgrade
>> >> to
>> >> KNFB mobile software to its initial buyers.
>> >> Why are the same people expected to pay twice for the R&D?
>> >> Or does NFB get some commission on each sale?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Keith and Tracy" <hear2c at mchsi.com>
>> >> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>> >> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:06 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>I think one of the reasons they are jumping to a cell phoone is that
>> >>>the
>> >>>PDA
>> >>> is no longer available from Fuji, which, I guess, is the maker of the
>> >>> version KNFB used originally.  As for the hardware being tapped out, 
>> >>> I
>> >>> think
>> >>> it's a bit too much for consumers to chew.  I'm sure there is some 
>> >>> way
>> >>> to
>> >>> update the hardware wireing/chipsets or something to allow for
>> >>> expansion
>> >>> of
>> >>> the software.
>> >>>
>> >>> Another thing is that I think people were complainng on how bulky the
>> >>> classic reader is.  I personally don't think it's that bad, but
>> >>> whatever.
>> >>>
>> >>> Keith
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>> >>> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>> >>> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 7:36 AM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> This is not my experience.  Some people can get someone else to buy
>> >>>> access
>> >>>> equipment, and some people can't.  My employer bought the braille
>> >>>> display
>> >>>> I have at work.  I bought the one I have at home.  I bought my KNFB
>> >>>> reader.  Plenty of other people I know also bought their readers
>> >>>> themselves, getting the money together one way or another.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> But I'm with the guy who started this tread.  How can a cell phone 
>> >>>> be
>> >>>> better stronger faster than a PDA?  The PDA's not that old.  It
>> >>>> doesn't
>> >>>> make sense to me.
>> >>>> Tracy
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I think it is a good deal easier for americans to obtain equipment.
>> >>>>> There access for employers and so on is a good deal better than 
>> >>>>> here
>> >>>>> in the UK. If your blind over there you get braille displays just
>> >>>>> because you sort of want them. Over here we have to justify,
>> >>>>> justify,
>> >>>>> justify etc.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -James-
>> >>>>> On 4 Feb 2008, at 12:33, Keith and Tracy wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> I think you are mistaken about the  funding aspect.  The deaf has
>> >>>>>> closed
>> >>>>>> captioning on TV shows and movies, which is madated by the feds.
>> >>>>>> The tv and
>> >>>>>> movie studeios have lobbyists up the wazoo, telling congress that
>> >>>>>> they don't
>> >>>>>> want to fund Descriptive video for shoes and movies.  If you are
>> >>>>>> talking
>> >>>>>> aobut Lion's clubs, even Iraq has Lion's clubs.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Keith
>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>> From: "william lomas" <lomaswilliam at googlemail.com>
>> >>>>>> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader user list"
>> >>>>>> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:28 AM
>> >>>>>> Subject: [Reader-users] i dont get it
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> hi all
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> how have they maxed out the hardware of that PDA for the classic
>> >>>>>>> it is ten times faster than an average mobile phone is much much
>> >>>>>>> much
>> >>>>>>> faster, and no one is going to fund you buying a phone to have 
>> >>>>>>> OCR
>> >>>>>>> on
>> >>>>>>> it if you want it for a job
>> >>>>>>> you guys are all blinded by technology it hillarious
>> >>>>>>> so what it is a mboile phone? big deal, 90 percent of us here
>> >>>>>>> already
>> >>>>>>> own them
>> >>>>>>> you'll ahve to buy a new phone? oh it ok as you US guys get
>> >>>>>>> everything
>> >>>>>>> phones, funding for this, funding for that, we get nothing here 
>> >>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> UK
>> >>>>>>> i feel so sorry for those people who brought the classic for
>> >>>>>>> example,
>> >>>>>>> were told it would work in their langauge i.e to read spanish
>> >>>>>>> french
>> >>>>>>> german, and are now told thanks for your money but we are 
>> >>>>>>> scrweing
>> >>>>>>> you
>> >>>>>>> over, buy out new product now to get what you should have had int
>> >>>>>>> he
>> >>>>>>> old one it pathetic
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> Reader-users mailing list
>> >>>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>> >>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>> Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>
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>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >
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>>
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