[Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
MARK FELIZ
felizfamily5 at msn.com
Thu Nov 30 22:17:30 CST 2006
ditto
>From: "Lewis, Graham" <Graham.Lewis at warwick.ac.uk>
>Reply-To: Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users
>list<reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users
>list"<reader-users at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
>Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:23:53 -0000
>
>Re: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
>Please don't unsubscribe. I like listrs where ideas are batted about. If
>this were sinply an information list from NFB it would be too boring. I am
>sure the developers will take what theyt wany from the list and I am sure
>they value opinions and ideas.
>
>There is a;ways a tendancy for some (me included) to get carried away with
>a pet idea and start nagging but working out the pros and cns of an idea in
>a public space always helps to see the strengths and weaknesses of the
>ideas.
>
>So stay in there.
>
>Graham Lewis
>Centre for Academic Practice
>University of Warwick
>University House
>Kirby Corner Road
>Coventry CV4 8UW
>UK
>Email: mailto:graham.lewis at warwick.ac.uk graham.lewis at warwick.ac.uk
>Tel.: (+44) (0) 24 765 72737
>Mobile: 07703100401
>Fax.: (+44) (0) 24 765 72736
>Blog: http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/glewis/ http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/glewis/
>
>From:
>reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of Cory Martin
>Sent:
>Thu 30/11/2006 04:12
>To:
>'Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list'
>Subject:
>Re: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
>Damn Straight, that'd be one awesome microwave! Know where I can buy one
>of
>those ones? Bet they're pretty expensive.
>I'm going to stop posting on this list very likely because it seems that
>new
>ideas aren't welcome and are only torn apart and it seems to be everyone's
>personal mission to make fun of every idea put forth. I put forward my
>suggestions because I wanted to contribute in a positive way, and don't
>really care one way or another if an idea is good or bad, it's simply that;
>an idea, and whether it finds it's way in to a finished product or not is
>for the most part irrelevant. I also like to watch user postings and the
>responses of the manufacturer to judge the level of interest overall. But
>as a friend of mine pointed out this product is very expensive especially
>for the purpose of simply scanning one's mail or some short documents on
>the
>fly, and although I'm not arguing that the cost is likely justified, with
>that comes a measure of responsibility to at least listen to people's ideas
>and put some half-concious effort in to making them reality. Which ones
>come first or second, third or forth or not at all really doesn't matter.
>I
>don't even own one of these devices, but I can honestly say that if the
>whole point of it is to scan some business cards or short documents, then
>I'll pass, especially if there will never be any plans to provide it as a
>stand-alone application. The Quicklink-Pen Elite can provide similar
>functionality although in a much more limited way at a fraction of the
>cost.
>Please understand I'm not trying to compare two products or say that one is
>better than the other, if anything the Reader if compared to the
>Quicklink-Pen for example, would probably win hands down, but that's not
>the
>point. What the Reader can do today is impressive and I'm not disputing
>that, but our world is progress just like the microwave with the
>one-function knob to the one that can sense the temperature of what's being
>cooked and adjust accordingly. That is the happy and sad reality of
>society
>and technology today. There are different people as well, those who just
>want it to work and those who wanna push the limits. I tend to be one of
>those to push the limits. Many products produced for the visually impaired
>are designed to be "blind friendly", and although that's great in many
>ways,
>it's limiting in others. We have enough limits on ourselves already, we
>don't need to add more on our own heads.
> So fine, I suggested that the system be made more open so it could
>be installed and used with other software/hardware to make an all-in-one
>device. I have heard nothing but opposition to it so therefore I'm done.
>Afterall it was only a suggestion. It's not like those who liked to use it
>as a reader and nothing else still couldn't just because I had mine playing
>MP3's in the background while reading just because I know how to use the
>Pocket Media Player. As to the statement about supporting non-Reader
>issues
>in Tech support I can tell you that I work in support for an internet
>service provider, and I get more calls than I can stand from people who are
>absolutely clueless about computers and in my opinion have no business
>owning one, wanting me to help them with their Web Cam or printer, or if
>their computer won't start or if they're absolutely dense and can't read
>type or spell, or can't use a mouse (and I have to talk in terms as though
>I
>were speaking to a child), and the solution of "refer to original equipment
>manufacturer" applies every time. Just out of curiosity, if a user of the
>Reader calls up tech support saying that their unit won't power on ETC and
>if it is shipped back to the company for repair, is the repair done in
>house? Or is it passed on to Dell or whoever actually makes the PDA being
>adapted? It's not like the Reader is it's own product in the first place,
>it's a mainstream PDA modified with a special case and software package
>which keeps the user from getting to the actual Pocket Windows interface
>itself.
>So maybe before one tries to cut down other's ideas or suggestions maybe
>try
>to think about the vision they actually have and decide if it's such a
>terrible one or not. Keep in mind there are PDA's out there with camera's
>built in, and even though the quality of such devices isn't the best at the
>moment and thus would not be practical for a pocket reader, in the future
>when 8MP cameras are integrated in a device the need for an external camera
>would no longer be there, and obviously this reality will happen, time is
>only the undetermined factor, and I doubt it'll take all that long. So for
>those of you opposed to new ideas about technology try to hold back on
>being
>so critical because even a concept as a pocket reader would have been
>laughed at as impossible five years ago, and here it is today.
>Cory
>-----Original Message-----
>From: reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[ mailto:reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
>mailto:reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
>] On Behalf Of MARK FELIZ
>Sent: November 29, 2006 8:24 PM
>To: reader-users at nfbnet.org
>Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
>Hello Nick:
>Now, Now, remember, we live in a I want society. We not only expect our
>microwave to cook our meal in ten seconds or less but we expect the
>microwave to get the food out of the freezer, unwrap, defrost, cook, keep
>it
>warm till we are good and ready to eat, remind us our meal is waiting,
>serve
>the meal in proportions to our body mass, and ...
>What do you think?
>Mark Feliz
> >From: "W. Nick Dotson" <nickdotson at bellsouth.net>
> >Reply-To: Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users
> >list<reader-users at nfbnet.org>
> >To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users
> >list"<reader-users at nfbnet.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
> >Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:28:17 -0600
> >
> >There are "General Purpose" and "Special Purpose" systems. Your desktop
>or
> >notebook PC is General Purpose in nature and intent. The PDA in the
> >KNFBR is being used specifically to provide a hardware platform on which
> >images captured by the camera are to be recognized, and the recognized
>text
> >read aloud. What don't you understand about the nature of this "Limited
> >Purpose" system, as exemplified in the name for it, the Kurzweol National
> >Federation of the Blind Reader"?
> >
> >Nick
> >
> >On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:23:50 -0700, Cory Martin wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > As for CPU processing power, when it comes to this software like
>any
> > software should there not be a min system requirements list? Like say,
> >you
> > can't run it on a PDA that isn't at least 500 or 600 MHZ with 200 Megs
>of
> > on-board memory and some form of storage media? Ovbiously if I had a
> >4-year
> > old PDA and wanted to run the reader on that I might be asking for a
>lot,
> >I
> > just feel that a device is wasted if all it can do is run one program
> >like
> > the reader. There should at least be a means to exit the application
>so
> >the
> > PDA can be used normally, such as with MSP installed to provide speech
>to
> > other areas.
> > As for batch scanning, I believe it deserves a place on a new
> > features request list if maybe a lower place then say, being able to
> > recognize black on white text which is, a more important and much more
> > fundamental requirement.
> > My only suggestion was that the scanning software not dominate the
> > PDA so that it can be used for other things. That way those who want
>to
> >use
> > it strictly for reading can do that and those who want to integrate it
> >with
> > other add-ons or software have that option.
> > Cory
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > [ mailto:reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
>mailto:reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
>] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> > Sent: November 29, 2006 8:45 AM
> > To: Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
> >
> > Corey:
> >
> > The problem is procesor power. It takes a helluva lot of power to
>analyze
> > images. So a run-of-the-mil PDA won't cut it.
> >
> > As far as batch processing goes, there's an inherent inconsistency or,
> > rather, assumption in the thinking of many: that is that one will
>always
> >get
> >
> > the orientation right as one scans pages. To a certain extent, this is
>a
> > matter of practice. But there's always the odd page that doesn't scan
> >well.
> > And one won't know until long afterward. And, given the limitations of
> >the
> > PDA and the constraints upon the complexity of the Reader software,
>it's
> >not
> >
> > feasible at present to go back and edit pages on the PDA. Moreover,
>it's
> > like the old saw of not getting a job without experience while needing
>a
> >job
> >
> > to get that experience. One needs to analyze the image to know if one
>got
> >a
> > good scan and this is the antithesis of batch processing.
> >
> > Finally, NFB does not have unlimited time, manpower or resources; we
>must
> > put these to work in areas where other devices are not available. While
> > reading books with the Reader would be nice, there are other systems
>that
> >do
> >
> > this more efficiently. In my view, Reader development should
>concentrate
> >on
> > making the Reader do what other devices -- yes, even money identifiers
>--
> > don't do. And the more one complicates a device, the more avenues one
> > introduces for errors. This is great for tech support people but not so
> > great for the rest of us!
> >
> > That's my take, anyway.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cory Martin" <cory_martin at shaw.ca>
> > To: "'Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list'"
> > <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:29 PM
> > Subject: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
> >
> >
> > Hello List,
> > First off before I get started I would like to point out that I do
> > not have one of these devices so thus cannot comment on the overall
> > functionality of the device itself. From what I understand of it the
> >Reader
> > sounds like a very exciting advancement in the way the Visually
>Impaired
> >can
> > access information. Keep in mind that the Visually Impaired are not
> >really
> > capable of reading or writing technically anyway and without technology
> >such
> > as this that problem becomes almost unsolvable. We finally have a
>device
> > that is hand held no longer tying one to a desk and flatbed scanner.
> > When it comes to features why would a batch option be anything but a
> > bad idea? In all reality it's not likely one would take the time to
>scan
> >a
> > book with the reader unless they could have a way of orienting the
>camera
> > correctly to the page with each page, but just because it might not
>work
> > doesn't mean it shouldn't be there to use if needed.
> > My last and final comment is directed more at the developers of the
> > Reader itself. It's not really anything more than a suggestion but,
>for
> > those of us who do not need a device that is simplified down to one
> > interface, why not design the reader in such a way so that it can be an
> > add-on application to the rest of an already existing PDA? I have a
>PDA
> >and
> > it works fine but I know I wouldn't want to carry a PDA strictly for
> > scanning documents, one specifically for GPS and one for general media
> >and
> > note taking functions. Can you imagine trying to remember to charge
>all
> >the
> > batteries? I believe that there should be a version of the KNFB reader
> >made
> > available for one who wishes to add it to a standard PDA based on a
> > licensing system, and then one can provide their own input device, such
> >as a
> > recommended camera perhaps sold with the software optionally. Just a
> > thought...A PDA should be universal.
> > Cory
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > [ mailto:reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
>mailto:reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
>] On Behalf Of Rob Monitor
> > Sent: November 28, 2006 10:14 PM
> > To: Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Joined today
> >
> > Hi, I was wondering how the optacon worked I seen one back in the early
> >80's
> >
> > but did not have the chants to really look at it...Some one was using
>it
> > in a ofice and when I asked about it they said they just got it and
>did
> >not
> >
> > know that much about it...
> > thanks rob
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Evelyn Weckerly" <weckerly at i2k.com>
> > To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list"
> > <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Joined today
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I had an Optacon thanks to the Mott Foundation. I had it from 1980
> > > until I got version 2 of what is now k1000. I finally sold it to
> > > someone who desperately wanted a spare because his job depended on
> > > that technology.
> > >
> > > Evelyn
> > >
> > > At 07:55 PM 11/28/2006, you wrote:
> > >>Hi users of the new Kurzweil NFB reader, Ken Lawrence Central
>Chapter.
> > >>Just
> > >>joined the list today looking forward to the dialog and the latest
> >news
> > >>concerning the reader. I'm a bit of an old timer so I go back to
> > >>the Optacon's
> > >>glory days. just wondering how many users of the new reader used to
> >use
> > >>the
> > >>Optacon? if you did, hope you saw the item in the October monitor
> >about
> > >>the
> > >>Optacon survey. they're looking for users, and people who don't use
> > >>there
> > >>Optacon any more. they are thinking of putting nonuse Optacons back
> >in
> > >>to
> > >>circulation. if they get enough response to it, they may relaunch
> > >>the Optacon
> > >>with updated circuitry to make it possible for it to read modern
> > >>print formats
> > >>and font sizes used today. forget the email address off hand, but
> > >>does anyone
> > >>on list remember what happened to the voice output that was
>developed
> >at
> > >>around the same time as the First Kurzweil readers that was mente
>for
> >the
> > >>Optacon? also on a related question, oops, 2 questions, will
> > >>future portable
> > >>readers have a Braille display incorporated in to it? and also if a
> >Car
> > >>is
> > >>developed for the blind, it seems a form of the Kurzweil reader
>could
> >be
> > >>incorporated in to it so that a Street sign could be read or even
> > >>the menu at a drive
> > >>through. Yeah, it's a great time to be blind Huh? Ken.
> > >>
> > >>I pledge to participate actively in the efforts of the national
> > >>federation
> > >>of the blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security for the
> > >>blind; to
> > >>support the policies and programs of the federation; and abide by
>it's
> > >>constitution.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>Reader-users mailing list
> > >>Reader-users at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
> > ----
> >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Reader-users mailing list
> > > Reader-users at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Reader-users mailing list
> > Reader-users at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Reader-users mailing list
> > Reader-users at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Reader-users mailing list
> > Reader-users at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Reader-users mailing list
> > Reader-users at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Reader-users mailing list
> >Reader-users at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>_______________________________________________
>Reader-users mailing list
>Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>_______________________________________________
>Reader-users mailing list
>Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
>_______________________________________________
>Reader-users mailing list
>Reader-users at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
More information about the Reader-users
mailing list