[Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
Hope Hein
hmhein at verizon.net
Thu Nov 30 07:15:11 CST 2006
Good point!
Hope
-----Original Message-----
.From: "Lewis, Graham"<Graham.Lewis at warwick.ac.uk>
.Sent: 11/30/06 4:23:53 AM
.To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list"<reader-users at nfbnet.org>
.Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
.
.Please don't unsubscribe. I like listrs where ideas are batted about. If this were sinply an information list from NFB it would be too boring. I am sure the developers will take what theyt wany from the list and I am sure they value opinions and ideas.
.
.There is a;ways a tendancy for some (me included) to get carried away with a pet idea and start nagging but working out the pros and cns of an idea in a public space always helps to see the strengths and weaknesses of the ideas.
.
.So stay in there.
.
.Graham Lewis
.Centre for Academic Practice
.University of Warwick
.University House
.Kirby Corner Road
.Coventry CV4 8UW
.UK
.Email: graham.lewis at warwick.ac.uk
.Tel.: (+44) (0) 24 765 72737
.Mobile: 07703100401
.Fax.: (+44) (0) 24 765 72736
.Blog: http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/glewis/
.
.
.
.________________________________
.
.From: reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of Cory Martin
.Sent: Thu 30/11/2006 04:12
.To: 'Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list'
.Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
.
.
.
.Damn Straight, that'd be one awesome microwave! Know where I can buy one of
.those ones? Bet they're pretty expensive.
.I'm going to stop posting on this list very likely because it seems that new
.ideas aren't welcome and are only torn apart and it seems to be everyone's
.personal mission to make fun of every idea put forth. I put forward my
.suggestions because I wanted to contribute in a positive way, and don't
.really care one way or another if an idea is good or bad, it's simply that;
.an idea, and whether it finds it's way in to a finished product or not is
.for the most part irrelevant. I also like to watch user postings and the
.responses of the manufacturer to judge the level of interest overall. But
.as a friend of mine pointed out this product is very expensive especially
.for the purpose of simply scanning one's mail or some short documents on the
.fly, and although I'm not arguing that the cost is likely justified, with
.that comes a measure of responsibility to at least listen to people's ideas
.and put some half-concious effort in to making them reality. Which ones
.come first or second, third or forth or not at all really doesn't matter. I
.don't even own one of these devices, but I can honestly say that if the
.whole point of it is to scan some business cards or short documents, then
.I'll pass, especially if there will never be any plans to provide it as a
.stand-alone application. The Quicklink-Pen Elite can provide similar
.functionality although in a much more limited way at a fraction of the cost.
.Please understand I'm not trying to compare two products or say that one is
.better than the other, if anything the Reader if compared to the
.Quicklink-Pen for example, would probably win hands down, but that's not the
.point. What the Reader can do today is impressive and I'm not disputing
.that, but our world is progress just like the microwave with the
.one-function knob to the one that can sense the temperature of what's being
.cooked and adjust accordingly. That is the happy and sad reality of society
.and technology today. There are different people as well, those who just
.want it to work and those who wanna push the limits. I tend to be one of
.those to push the limits. Many products produced for the visually impaired
.are designed to be "blind friendly", and although that's great in many ways,
.it's limiting in others. We have enough limits on ourselves already, we
.don't need to add more on our own heads.
. So fine, I suggested that the system be made more open so it could
.be installed and used with other software/hardware to make an all-in-one
.device. I have heard nothing but opposition to it so therefore I'm done.
.Afterall it was only a suggestion. It's not like those who liked to use it
.as a reader and nothing else still couldn't just because I had mine playing
.MP3's in the background while reading just because I know how to use the
.Pocket Media Player. As to the statement about supporting non-Reader issues
.in Tech support I can tell you that I work in support for an internet
.service provider, and I get more calls than I can stand from people who are
.absolutely clueless about computers and in my opinion have no business
.owning one, wanting me to help them with their Web Cam or printer, or if
.their computer won't start or if they're absolutely dense and can't read
.type or spell, or can't use a mouse (and I have to talk in terms as though I
.were speaking to a child), and the solution of "refer to original equipment
.manufacturer" applies every time. Just out of curiosity, if a user of the
.Reader calls up tech support saying that their unit won't power on ETC and
.if it is shipped back to the company for repair, is the repair done in
.house? Or is it passed on to Dell or whoever actually makes the PDA being
.adapted? It's not like the Reader is it's own product in the first place,
.it's a mainstream PDA modified with a special case and software package
.which keeps the user from getting to the actual Pocket Windows interface
.itself.
.So maybe before one tries to cut down other's ideas or suggestions maybe try
.to think about the vision they actually have and decide if it's such a
.terrible one or not. Keep in mind there are PDA's out there with camera's
.built in, and even though the quality of such devices isn't the best at the
.moment and thus would not be practical for a pocket reader, in the future
.when 8MP cameras are integrated in a device the need for an external camera
.would no longer be there, and obviously this reality will happen, time is
.only the undetermined factor, and I doubt it'll take all that long. So for
.those of you opposed to new ideas about technology try to hold back on being
.so critical because even a concept as a pocket reader would have been
.laughed at as impossible five years ago, and here it is today.
.Cory
.
.
.
.-----Original Message-----
.From: reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
.[mailto:reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of MARK FELIZ
.Sent: November 29, 2006 8:24 PM
.To: reader-users at nfbnet.org
.Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
.
.Hello Nick:
.
.Now, Now, remember, we live in a I want society. We not only expect our
.microwave to cook our meal in ten seconds or less but we expect the
.microwave to get the food out of the freezer, unwrap, defrost, cook, keep it
.
.warm till we are good and ready to eat, remind us our meal is waiting, serve
.
.the meal in proportions to our body mass, and ...
.
.What do you think?
.
.Mark Feliz
.
.
.
.
.>From: "W. Nick Dotson" <nickdotson at bellsouth.net>
.>Reply-To: Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users
.>list<reader-users at nfbnet.org>
.>To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users
.>list"<reader-users at nfbnet.org>
.>Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
.>Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:28:17 -0600
.>
.>There are "General Purpose" and "Special Purpose" systems. Your desktop or
.
.>notebook PC is General Purpose in nature and intent. The PDA in the
.>KNFBR is being used specifically to provide a hardware platform on which
.>images captured by the camera are to be recognized, and the recognized text
.>read aloud. What don't you understand about the nature of this "Limited
.>Purpose" system, as exemplified in the name for it, the Kurzweol National
.>Federation of the Blind Reader"?
.>
.>Nick
.>
.>On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:23:50 -0700, Cory Martin wrote:
.>
.> Hi,
.> As for CPU processing power, when it comes to this software like any
.> software should there not be a min system requirements list? Like say,
.>you
.> can't run it on a PDA that isn't at least 500 or 600 MHZ with 200 Megs of
.> on-board memory and some form of storage media? Ovbiously if I had a
.>4-year
.> old PDA and wanted to run the reader on that I might be asking for a lot,
.
.>I
.> just feel that a device is wasted if all it can do is run one program
.>like
.> the reader. There should at least be a means to exit the application so
.>the
.> PDA can be used normally, such as with MSP installed to provide speech to
.> other areas.
.> As for batch scanning, I believe it deserves a place on a new
.> features request list if maybe a lower place then say, being able to
.> recognize black on white text which is, a more important and much more
.> fundamental requirement.
.> My only suggestion was that the scanning software not dominate the
.> PDA so that it can be used for other things. That way those who want to
.>use
.> it strictly for reading can do that and those who want to integrate it
.>with
.> other add-ons or software have that option.
.> Cory
.>
.>
.> -----Original Message-----
.> From: reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
.> [mailto:reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Freeman
.> Sent: November 29, 2006 8:45 AM
.> To: Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list
.> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
.>
.> Corey:
.>
.> The problem is procesor power. It takes a helluva lot of power to analyze
.> images. So a run-of-the-mil PDA won't cut it.
.>
.> As far as batch processing goes, there's an inherent inconsistency or,
.> rather, assumption in the thinking of many: that is that one will always
.>get
.>
.> the orientation right as one scans pages. To a certain extent, this is a
.> matter of practice. But there's always the odd page that doesn't scan
.>well.
.> And one won't know until long afterward. And, given the limitations of
.>the
.> PDA and the constraints upon the complexity of the Reader software, it's
.>not
.>
.> feasible at present to go back and edit pages on the PDA. Moreover, it's
.> like the old saw of not getting a job without experience while needing a
.>job
.>
.> to get that experience. One needs to analyze the image to know if one got
.
.>a
.> good scan and this is the antithesis of batch processing.
.>
.> Finally, NFB does not have unlimited time, manpower or resources; we must
.> put these to work in areas where other devices are not available. While
.> reading books with the Reader would be nice, there are other systems that
.
.>do
.>
.> this more efficiently. In my view, Reader development should concentrate
.>on
.> making the Reader do what other devices -- yes, even money identifiers --
.> don't do. And the more one complicates a device, the more avenues one
.> introduces for errors. This is great for tech support people but not so
.> great for the rest of us!
.>
.> That's my take, anyway.
.>
.> Mike
.>
.> ----- Original Message -----
.> From: "Cory Martin" <cory_martin at shaw.ca>
.> To: "'Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list'"
.> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
.> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:29 PM
.> Subject: [Reader-users] Program Philosophy Changes Needed
.>
.>
.> Hello List,
.> First off before I get started I would like to point out that I do
.> not have one of these devices so thus cannot comment on the overall
.> functionality of the device itself. From what I understand of it the
.>Reader
.> sounds like a very exciting advancement in the way the Visually Impaired
.>can
.> access information. Keep in mind that the Visually Impaired are not
.>really
.> capable of reading or writing technically anyway and without technology
.>such
.> as this that problem becomes almost unsolvable. We finally have a device
.> that is hand held no longer tying one to a desk and flatbed scanner.
.> When it comes to features why would a batch option be anything but a
.> bad idea? In all reality it's not likely one would take the time to scan
.
.>a
.> book with the reader unless they could have a way of orienting the camera
.> correctly to the page with each page, but just because it might not work
.> doesn't mean it shouldn't be there to use if needed.
.> My last and final comment is directed more at the developers of the
.> Reader itself. It's not really anything more than a suggestion but, for
.> those of us who do not need a device that is simplified down to one
.> interface, why not design the reader in such a way so that it can be an
.> add-on application to the rest of an already existing PDA? I have a PDA
.>and
.> it works fine but I know I wouldn't want to carry a PDA strictly for
.> scanning documents, one specifically for GPS and one for general media
.>and
.> note taking functions. Can you imagine trying to remember to charge all
.>the
.> batteries? I believe that there should be a version of the KNFB reader
.>made
.> available for one who wishes to add it to a standard PDA based on a
.> licensing system, and then one can provide their own input device, such
.>as a
.> recommended camera perhaps sold with the software optionally. Just a
.> thought...A PDA should be universal.
.> Cory
.>
.>
.> -----Original Message-----
.> From: reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
.> [mailto:reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rob Monitor
.> Sent: November 28, 2006 10:14 PM
.> To: Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list
.> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Joined today
.>
.> Hi, I was wondering how the optacon worked I seen one back in the early
.>80's
.>
.> but did not have the chants to really look at it...Some one was using it
.> in a ofice and when I asked about it they said they just got it and did
.>not
.>
.> know that much about it...
.> thanks rob
.> ----- Original Message -----
.> From: "Evelyn Weckerly" <weckerly at i2k.com>
.> To: "Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list"
.> <reader-users at nfbnet.org>
.> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:54 PM
.> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] Joined today
.>
.>
.> > Hi,
.> >
.> > I had an Optacon thanks to the Mott Foundation. I had it from 1980
.> > until I got version 2 of what is now k1000. I finally sold it to
.> > someone who desperately wanted a spare because his job depended on
.> > that technology.
.> >
.> > Evelyn
.> >
.> > At 07:55 PM 11/28/2006, you wrote:
.> >>Hi users of the new Kurzweil NFB reader, Ken Lawrence Central Chapter.
.> >>Just
.> >>joined the list today looking forward to the dialog and the latest
.>news
.> >>concerning the reader. I'm a bit of an old timer so I go back to
.> >>the Optacon's
.> >>glory days. just wondering how many users of the new reader used to
.>use
.> >>the
.> >>Optacon? if you did, hope you saw the item in the October monitor
.>about
.> >>the
.> >>Optacon survey. they're looking for users, and people who don't use
.> >>there
.> >>Optacon any more. they are thinking of putting nonuse Optacons back
.>in
.> >>to
.> >>circulation. if they get enough response to it, they may relaunch
.> >>the Optacon
.> >>with updated circuitry to make it possible for it to read modern
.> >>print formats
.> >>and font sizes used today. forget the email address off hand, but
.> >>does anyone
.> >>on list remember what happened to the voice output that was developed
.>at
.> >>around the same time as the First Kurzweil readers that was mente for
.>the
.> >>Optacon? also on a related question, oops, 2 questions, will
.> >>future portable
.> >>readers have a Braille display incorporated in to it? and also if a
.>Car
.> >>is
.> >>developed for the blind, it seems a form of the Kurzweil reader could
.>be
.> >>incorporated in to it so that a Street sign could be read or even
.> >>the menu at a drive
.> >>through. Yeah, it's a great time to be blind Huh? Ken.
.> >>
.> >>I pledge to participate actively in the efforts of the national
.> >>federation
.> >>of the blind to achieve equality, opportunity, and security for the
.> >>blind; to
.> >>support the policies and programs of the federation; and abide by it's
.> >>constitution.
.> >>
.> >>
.> >>_______________________________________________
.> >>Reader-users mailing list
.> >>Reader-users at nfbnet.org
.> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users
.> >
.>
.>
.>
.>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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.> >
.>
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