[Reader-users] new KNFB reader user poses questions
W. Nick Dotson
nickdotson at bellsouth.net
Wed Nov 29 08:32:40 CST 2006
Come on folks! Realistically, let's consider what the technology was designed to do--in the "here and now" as a separate issue, from what it might be able
to do with more sophisticated hardware and software platforms in the future. I can, of course, bail a capcized boat with a teaspoon, or use a bailing pump,
but the results of the effort will be more satisfactory using the later tool. In the same way of "realistically" looking at it, the KNFBR was designed as a
portable reading tool giving access to info "on the go" as a portable means of reading--that's what's referred as "design philosophy". It is a tool in the
arsenal of arms enabling one to forge their independence. There is no single tool in the armory which can do it all--the closest thing to that being--a General
Purpose off-the-shelf PC, which can be equipped with screen reading software, OCR software, barcode reading software Etc... The current hardware
platform is limited in terms of the amount of memory it has to run applications and massage data in a timely manner, and in it's power management
capabilities, and is a "first step" in a type of device who's nature is yet in flux in terms of definition, and practical implementation... Going back to my initial
analogy, the appropriate tool to use for scanning a book is still, a scanner and PC with appropriate software. Kludging a KNFBR with other devices such as
tripods, paperholding devices, Etc., is a means of getting the job done, but at what cost in convenience, efficacy of results, and, departure for the "design
philosophy" of the device to function as a handheld reader? It's like a perfectly good notetaker being bully-ragged into becoming a general purpose PC
workalike, and perhaps not doing it as well as the General Purpose PC... If a device doesn't do everything the potential user wants it to do, perhaps the
potential user is actually looking at the wrong device for his/her needs, and forcing a device to do what it isn't designed to do is not going to provide
satisfactory results. An IPod isn't ever going to provide high-quality audio, and a audiophyle quality stereo isn't going to be portable--that's just the realities of
engineering--same goes for our tools of independence!
W. Nick Dotson
On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:03:27 -0600, Kevin Jones wrote:
I respectfuly want to argue against that the reader cannot or is not
meant to read a book. The biggest problem is the text near the binding
when the page curves near the inner marjins. That's why I made a table
with glass on top and the camera in a mount on the bottom. Then you can
slightly flatten out the binding like when using a flatbed. I'll try to
post a scan of 2 pages just to prove it will work.
This argument would be like saying a motorcycle couldn't possibly drive
across the country.
Kevin
skype kevinrj
Chad F Allen wrote:
> I think that a batch mode would be a fine thing. I don't really understand
> the argument that the KNFB Reader should not work for reading a book. If it
> can read mail, menus, and other loose-leaf paper, why can't it read a book?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Jones
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:31 PM
> To: Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list
> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] new KNFB reader user poses questions
>
> I at least want the option. I designed a table with glass on top and a
> camera mount in the base. It has lights on it so you don't need a flash.
> I've been scanning books with a digital camera and then transfering the
> images to my pc for omnipage for 2 years. Even if you're in public and
> you have a 10 page document i'd much rather have scan batch than not. It
> would be so easy to put in. The user should decide if they want to use
> the option I'd rather be disapointed in something I could try than wish
> I could try it.
> Kevin
>
> David Andrews wrote:
>> I personally don't see the need, or at least little need for a batch
>> mode. This device is not intended to be used to read long documents
>> like books, and I think people who do will be disappointed.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 06:44 PM 11/28/2006, you wrote:
>>> it's so basic though, you're already almost separating them when you
>>> change the camera battery.
>>> James was saying they're working on the next update.
>>> Something we reall yneed is a batch mode. If the knfb reader is ever to
>>> be efficient in scanning multi-page documents, we really need a scan in
>>> batch mode, every ocr program has it.
>>> I would also like to see a more automated way to update the units.
>>> Having to send the sd card back to the dealer is very time costly and
>>> inconvenient for many I would think? I'm sure some kind of registration
>>> could be figured out.
>>> hey I'll be hoping for the batch mode first; but wonder what some of the
>>> rest of you think.
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>> Mike Freeman wrote:
>>>> I'd bet that would void the warranty.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Kim Morrow wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The thing is--if you're really sure of what you're doing, then
>>> removing the
>>>>> camera and the PDA into separate entities is fine. . . but you
>>> have to have
>>>>> a fair amount of confidence that you can keep the unit functioning. The
>>>>> manual doesn't recommend doing this. Then again--if you can do
>>> it with great
>>>>> results, more power to you!
>>>>>
>>>>> Kimberly
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Jones
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:43 AM
>>>>> To: Kurzweil National Federation of the Blind Reader users list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-users] new KNFB reader user poses questions
>>>>>
>>>>> ye I wasn't lucky enough to be born into a family that rich either.
>>>>> The reason why you would want to use a tripod, to use the reader on a
>>>>> large say 100 page or more document. The problem is because of the pda
>>>>> attached, it won't fit on a tripod.
>>>>> I actually have a special cable made so i can remove the camera from
> the
>>>>> case and connect the cable between the camera and the reader case so
>>>>> that I can use tripods. Cable is new so I haven't played too much yet.
>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>
>>>>> Lewis, Graham wrote:
>>>>>> [Reader-users] new KNFB reader user poses questions
>>>>>> Wow you have rich and or generous friends! Please introduce me to
> them!
>>>>>> When it was working, I was getting quite amazing resultseven at angles
> of
>>>>> around 10 to 12 percent off the virtical. It struggles with low text
> to
>>>>> backgprund contrast such as grey text or coloured text on colured
>>>>> backgprunds but then a desktop scanner would too.
>>>>>> I did notice that the camera seems to have a screw nounting on the
> bottom
>>>>> which might be useful as the device could be attached to the bottom on
> a
>>>>> camera tripod. Not sure why I would do that rather than use my dektop
>>>>> scanner but just a thought.
>>>>>> Graham Lewis
>>>>>> Centre for Academic Practice
>>>>>> University of Warwick
>>>>>> University House
>>>>>> Kirby Corner Road
>>>>>> Coventry CV4 8UW
>>>>>> UK
>>>>>> Email: mailto:graham.lewis at warwick.ac.uk graham.lewis at warwick.ac.uk
>>>>>> Tel.: (+44) (0) 24 765 72737
>>>>>> Mobile: 07703100401
>>>>>> Fax.: (+44) (0) 24 765 72736
>>>>>> Blog: http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/glewis/
>>>>> http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/glewis/
>>>>>> From:
>>>>>> reader-users-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of Kim Morrow
>>>>>> Sent:
>>>>>> Tue 28/11/2006 08:20
>>>>>> To:
>>>>>> reader-users at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject:
>>>>>> [Reader-users] new KNFB reader user poses questions
>>>>>> A few days ago, I had the honor and privilege of receiving
> a
>>>>>> KNFB Reader as a gift. Since that time, I have logged in quite
>>> a number of
>>>>>> hours reading the manuals cover to cover and experimenting with the
>>>>> device.
>>>>>> While the KNFB Reader appears to be a marvelous tool, I am
> experiencing
>>>>>> challenges in taking consistently effective pictures of material that
>>>>> would
>>>>>> render the material legible. I'm quite confident that such is the case
>>>>> with
>>>>>> many a new KNFB Reader user, expecially those who, like me, are
> totally
>>>>>> blind from birth and have thus not experienced the opportunity to
> learn
>>>>>> about conditions that make for optimal picture-taking environments.
>>>>>> Here is the greatest challenge I am currently experiencing: No matter
> how
>>>>>> clear the text I am attempting to scan may be, I am discovering
>>> that there
>>>>>> is little consistency in how the scan will turn out. I have attempted
> to
>>>>>> always orient myself from the same portion of the page, e.g. always
> from
>>>>> the
>>>>>> upper righthand or lefthand corner or always from the middle), with
> very
>>>>>> mixed results ranging from an almost perfect scan to totally
> illegible. I
>>>>>> have attempted to cover one side of a text-filled book (containing no
>>>>>> pictures), with a white sheet of typing paper, so that I am sure the
>>>>> correct
>>>>>> side of a page is read. I have asked sighted friends to assist me in
>>>>>> minimizing glare and to assist in the location of optimal scanning
>>>>>> environments e.g. surrounding surfaces that are not too dark,
> Etc.)-still
>>>>>> with extremely mixed results.
>>>>>> My question, then: What are some rules of the road not listed in the
>>>>> manuals
>>>>>> that might make the scanning experience for a first-time user more
>>>>>> consistent and effective? My expectations for the capabilities of this
>>>>>> device are much higher than what I have thus far been able to achieve,
>>>>> since
>>>>>> I am attempting to scan texts with no pictures with very standard
> print.
>>>>> If
>>>>>> I were attempting to scan CD covers or cereal boxes, I believe my
>>>>>> expectations for excellence would be quite out of line.
>>>>>> Are there any consistent guidelines I can follow beyond those listed
> in
>>>>> the
>>>>>> manual in terms of taking effective pictures of material?
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Kimberly Morrow
>>>>>> morrowmediakc at yahoo.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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