[nfbwatlk] Is this a proven fact?
Mike Freeman
k7uij at panix.com
Fri Mar 21 21:36:59 CDT 2008
Carl:
Obviously, I have no argument with you as to the way a hearing deficit
impacts O&M. I also enjoyed hearing of your experience with the
gentleman whose universe was "out in front of him". However, it seems to
me that you've missed the point of the anecdote: although it seemed to
you (and probably to the gentleman) that he couldn't orient himself in
space, the difficulty was not insurmountable when there was the
incentive of female companionship or, um, perhaps more. He managed to
figure that route out for himself with the proper incentive. Which then
means that he *could* manage just fine with the proper inducement.
So the moral of the story as I take it away was that, given sufficient
incentive, he *was* able to travel independently and, in effect, used
what we in NFB call the "Structured Discovery" method since you didn't
show him the way to his lady friend's digs. To me, this flat contradicts
the conclusion that this blind person, at least, couldn't travel. It
just meant that you hadn't figured out the proper technique to teach him
and/or given him a reason to master the skill. That's no slight on you;
we in NFB often have the same difficulty.
For instance, I've heard several times Jerry Whittle, one of our braille
instructors at the Louisiana Center for the Blind, state that a blind
person who learns braille as an adult necessarily won't learn to read as
fast as a blind person exposed to braille from childhood. While in one
respect, this makes sense in that the latter has a longer exposure to
braille, I am uneasy with the blanket deterministic statement that no
blind person who learns Braille as an adult can compensate. I maintain
that we haven't really put the matter to the test. For example, I wonder
what would happen if we took an adventitiously blind person attending
one of our centers and told him/her that if s/he were able to read at
three hundred words per minute at the end of three months' instruction,
s/he would receive a winning Powerball ticket, what would happen.
Although some might fail, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that we'd have
some damned fast adventitiously-blind Braille readers post-haste! (grin)
But back to the gentleman seeing his lady friend. Although I was not
there during your instruction, I would doubt that you took him thru the
situation move by move, i.e., after you had agreed that he should turn
left after exiting the room, you asked him to tell you when he left the
room and practiced till he could tell you without fail, then asked him
to stop and turn left and if he did not, ascertain why not and so on,
building up the skill moment by moment. It might take this sort of
painstaking work for someone who relied upon his/her sight to go places
via the "point and shoot" method.
But, as I say, I wasn't there so can't say anything definitive (or
shouldn't, anyway). But it's this sort of discourse that might lead to
new rehab techniques.
Mike Freeman
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Jarvis
To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Is this a proven fact?
Hi Lauren,
Certainly hearing plays a role in spatial awareness. Especially for
someone
who has adjusted to a certain level of hearing and suddenly has a
significant change.
About 3 years ago I had a serious glandular infection in my neck. It
did
some crazy things to my hearing. At times I heard echoes as if sound
were
coming through an overseas shortwave signal. The changes were so
sudden and
often that I could not really adjust. But finally everything settled
down.
I have been left with some hearing loss in my left ear. For a time I
found
myself veering left. Also I could no longer tell quickly just where a
sound
was coming from. But now, since it has remained pretty stable, I have
accommodated the change and am back on track.
But the folks I am talking about in my article are those who cannot
seem to
adjust regardless of other conditions. It is not a case of adjusting
to a
hearing loss, or compensating for light-headedness. They simply have
no
clue. It is as if the world goes out in front of them. They are the
center
of their universe. They are not in a room. The room streams out in
front
of them and if you tell them to go to the kitchen, it is out there in
front
of them. Once, when working with a gentleman in his new apartment, I
asked
if he knew which way the elevator was. He did. He said it was out
the door
and to the left, then a right turn at the corner. I said that was
correct
and would he now take me to the elevator. He found his front door by
trailing along the wall, feeling each piece of furniture to be certain
what
it was. I should mention that this was a studio apartment. But he
reached
the door and stepped out into the hall. He walked straight ahead
until he
bumped into the wall opposite his door. I figured that he would then
turn
left and proceed to the elevator. He just stood there, reaching out
and
feeling the wall.
Finally I asked him what was happening. He said, "I don't know where
I am.
What is this doing here?"
I suggested that he go back to his door and begin again. I did not
tell him
that he'd walked across the hall. He said he thought that was a good
plan,
and he began walking down the hall toward the elevator. After walking
almost to the corner he stopped and sort of waved his cane around.
"What's going on?" I asked.
"It doesn't feel like my room," he announced.
The story is much longer, but jumping to the happy conclusion, we
devised a
route that he could follow without fail. By the time we closed his
case he
could travel from his apartment to the elevator, then to the dining
room and
to his table.
In his case we found that he responded to taped instructions, and he
also
needed to touch objects to assist in knowing just where he was. He
never
did walk directly through the middle of his room, always working
around the
walls. But on his own he managed to figure out how to travel up to
the next
floor and down the hall to his lady friend's apartment.
Carl Jarvis
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-------------- next part --------------
Carl:
Obviously, I have no argument with you as to the way a hearing deficit impacts O&M. I also enjoyed hearing of your experience with the gentleman whose universe was "out in front of him". However, it seems to me that you've missed the point of the anecdote: although it seemed to you (and probably to the gentleman) that he couldn't orient himself in space, the difficulty was not insurmountable when there was the incentive of female companionship or, um, perhaps more. He managed to figure that route out for himself with the proper incentive. Which then means that he *could* manage just fine with the proper inducement.
So the moral of the story as I take it away was that, given sufficient incentive, he *was* able to travel independently and, in effect, used what we in NFB call the "Structured Discovery" method since you didn't show him the way to his lady friend's digs. To me, this flat contradicts the conclusion that this blind person, at least, couldn't travel. It just meant that you hadn't figured out the proper technique to teach him and/or given him a reason to master the skill. That's no slight on you; we in NFB often have the same difficulty.
For instance, I've heard several times Jerry Whittle, one of our braille instructors at the Louisiana Center for the Blind, state that a blind person who learns braille as an adult necessarily won't learn to read as fast as a blind person exposed to braille from childhood. While in one respect, this makes sense in that the latter has a longer exposure to braille, I am uneasy with the blanket deterministic statement that no blind person who learns Braille as an adult can compensate. I maintain that we haven't really put the matter to the test. For example, I wonder what would happen if we took an adventitiously blind person attending one of our centers and told him/her that if s/he were able to read at three hundred words per minute at the end of three months' instruction, s/he would receive a winning Powerball ticket, what would happen. Although some might fail, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that we'd have some damned fast adventitiously-blind Braille readers post-haste! (grin)
But back to the gentleman seeing his lady friend. Although I was not there during your instruction, I would doubt that you took him thru the situation move by move, i.e., after you had agreed that he should turn left after exiting the room, you asked him to tell you when he left the room and practiced till he could tell you without fail, then asked him to stop and turn left and if he did not, ascertain why not and so on, building up the skill moment by moment. It might take this sort of painstaking work for someone who relied upon his/her sight to go places via the "point and shoot" method.
But, as I say, I wasn't there so can't say anything definitive (or shouldn't, anyway). But it's this sort of discourse that might lead to new rehab techniques.
Mike Freeman
----- Original Message -----
From:
mailto:carjar at olypen.com Carl Jarvis
To:
mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
Sent:
Friday, March 21, 2008 8:32 AM
Subject:
Re: [nfbwatlk] Is this a proven fact?
Hi Lauren,
Certainly hearing plays a role in spatial awareness. Especially for someone
who has adjusted to a certain level of hearing and suddenly has a
significant change.
About 3 years ago I had a serious glandular infection in my neck. It did
some crazy things to my hearing. At times I heard echoes as if sound were
coming through an overseas shortwave signal. The changes were so sudden and
often that I could not really adjust. But finally everything settled down.
I have been left with some hearing loss in my left ear. For a time I found
myself veering left. Also I could no longer tell quickly just where a sound
was coming from. But now, since it has remained pretty stable, I have
accommodated the change and am back on track.
But the folks I am talking about in my article are those who cannot seem to
adjust regardless of other conditions. It is not a case of adjusting to a
hearing loss, or compensating for light-headedness. They simply have no
clue. It is as if the world goes out in front of them. They are the center
of their universe. They are not in a room. The room streams out in front
of them and if you tell them to go to the kitchen, it is out there in front
of them. Once, when working with a gentleman in his new apartment, I asked
if he knew which way the elevator was. He did. He said it was out the door
and to the left, then a right turn at the corner. I said that was correct
and would he now take me to the elevator. He found his front door by
trailing along the wall, feeling each piece of furniture to be certain what
it was. I should mention that this was a studio apartment. But he reached
the door and stepped out into the hall. He walked straight ahead until he
bumped into the wall opposite his door. I figured that he would then turn
left and proceed to the elevator. He just stood there, reaching out and
feeling the wall.
Finally I asked him what was happening. He said, "I don't know where I am.
What is this doing here?"
I suggested that he go back to his door and begin again. I did not tell him
that he'd walked across the hall. He said he thought that was a good plan,
and he began walking down the hall toward the elevator. After walking
almost to the corner he stopped and sort of waved his cane around.
"What's going on?" I asked.
"It doesn't feel like my room," he announced.
The story is much longer, but jumping to the happy conclusion, we devised a
route that he could follow without fail. By the time we closed his case he
could travel from his apartment to the elevator, then to the dining room and
to his table.
In his case we found that he responded to taped instructions, and he also
needed to touch objects to assist in knowing just where he was. He never
did walk directly through the middle of his room, always working around the
walls. But on his own he managed to figure out how to travel up to the next
floor and down the hall to his lady friend's apartment.
Carl Jarvis
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