[nfbwatlk] Target thinks blindness is a laughing matter:
Mike Freeman
k7uij at panix.com
Sat Jan 12 19:56:14 CST 2008
But she might have asked for something else. Why should the fact that
she wanted the menu read to her mandate certain behavior on the part of
store personnel when other factors might not count?
Please bear in mind that I am not condoning the behavior. I'm simply
questioning whether it is really a problem of blindness per se. AS I
say, the level of service by store personnel is one of those gray areas
in the law. And I think we're treading on pretty shaky ground when we
cannot base our protests on the law.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Lauren Merryfield
To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Target thinks blindness is a laughing matter:
Hi,
It is a blindness issue. If Kay weren't blind, she wouldn't have
asked to
have the menu read to her.
Thanks
Lauren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List" <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Target thinks blindness is a laughing matter:
> Work by the local chapter is beneficial when it will have an effect.
> But, at least in my view, the manager of the store is likely to move
on
> in six months or so and the vagaries of human existence and
corporate
> pressure will make him/her forget our "training" sooner rather than
> later.
>
> And a letter to the editor is a double-edged sword: while many may
> understand our indignance at one of our own being laughed at, I fear
me
> greatly that the message will be perceived as mixed and people will
come
> away thinking that we, the blind, must be handled with kid gloves.
While
> the operative principle here is that *no* customer should be treated
> rudely, people (including ourselves) won't focus on this fundamental
> principle and will, instead, focus on the blindness angle. Why else
> would a blindness group get involved?
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Sellers
> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Target thinks blindness is a laughing
matter:
>
>
>
> I agree in not making a 'Federal' case out of it. But, I believe,
it
> is a
> good opportunity for the local chapter to contact the store and
make
> an
> appointment with the manager to educate and inform him/her,
regarding
> treatment of blind customers. If the local NFBW chapter is not
> encouraged to
> get involved in a situation like this, the questioned could be
asked.
> What
> is the purpose of the local chapter or how serious must insensitive
> treatment become before it is acted upon? Even a letter to the
editor
> to the
> local newspaper may be beneficial.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:25 PM
> To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Target thinks blindness is a laughing
matter:
>
> Fellow listers:
>
> I realize that Kay is mightily perturbed over this whole incident.
Who
> can blame her? But let's get the emotion out of the discussion and
> look
> at this logically in light of NFB philosophy and in light of what
> might
> be effective. I realize that what I say next may not go down well
with
> some of you. So be it; you elected me to lead and you have the
power
> of
> the vote; my term is up this year. (grin)
>
> First, let's consider Lisa's suggestion that we go to the press
> concerning this incident. If Kay were sighted, would this incident
> have
> been worthy of press notice? I submit that the answer is a
resounding
> NO! The press wouldn't give the time of day to someone who issued a
> press release saying they were laughed at or treated rudely at a
> store.
> The general response would be: if you don't like it, shop
elsewhere!
> Then if this is true and given that we of NFB wish to be integrated
> into
> society on the basis of equality with the sighted and if we
maintain
> that blindness is just another characteristic with which we must
live
> and is nnot much more than a nuisance, do we *really* wish to be
> treated
> differentially with respect to blindness? I submit that the answer
to
> this question, too, is a resounding NO. I further submit that
> complaining to the press about this would play on the sympathy card
> and
> in the end would accomplish a purpose quite contrary to that which
we
> all want -- to be treated the same as everyone else. So I believe
that
> trying to arrange a protest or get pres coverage of this incident
is
> counterproductive at best.
>
> Now let's consider how effective a boycott might be. Yes, I know;
we
> all
> grew up with knowledge of the glory days of civil rights when
> African-americans boycotted busses and other services. But in the
> instances where such boycotts were effective, African-americans
were a
> majority of the customers of the entities being boycotted. That is
not
> the situation here. Target has revenues of over $2 billion a year;
any
> boycott we might arrange would be a drop -- not just in a bucket
but
> in
> a thimble -- compared to this revenue. So it would be like spitting
> into
> the wind. It would be wasted effort. WE have enough discrimination
> problems so that we don't need to scatter our shots on ventures
that
> are
> not likely to be effective.
>
> The one possible way I can see to protest Kay's treatment would be
for
> her to file a complaint with the U.s. Department of Justice under
> Title
> III of the ADA alleging that she didn't receive reasonable
> accommodations in gaining access to the menu. But this is a long,
> drawn-out process and, I submit, not worth the bother.
>
> Am I saying that what happened to Kay was right? Of course not. Is
it
> of
> sufficient gravity to make a Federal case out of? I don't think so.
> There's a lot in life that isn't right. But sometimes the best
thing
> to
> do is to ignore it or, in this case, take one's business to a
> different
> store.
>
> The Serenity Prayer applies in spades!
>
> Now I'll put on my fire-resistant suit. <g>
>
> Mike Freeman, President
> NFB of Washington
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Owenblue2 at aol.com
> To: nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Target thinks blindness is a laughing
> matter:
>
>
> Ok; let's see how much they laugh if we boycott their stores and
> Pizza
> Hut
> as well. I think you should go to the press. I am furious and mad
as
> a
> hornet!
> How dare they treat you this way!
>
> Whatever you decide to do I support you all the way.
>
> Lisa Owen
>
>
>
> **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfbwatlk mailing list
> nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk
>
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> 12/31/2007
> 12:00 AM
>
>
>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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> 10:19 AM
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
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>
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>
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-------------- next part --------------
But she might have asked for something else. Why should the fact that she wanted the menu read to her mandate certain behavior on the part of store personnel when other factors might not count?
Please bear in mind that I am not condoning the behavior. I'm simply questioning whether it is really a problem of blindness per se. AS I say, the level of service by store personnel is one of those gray areas in the law. And I think we're treading on pretty shaky ground when we cannot base our protests on the law.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From:
mailto:lauren1 at catliness.com Lauren Merryfield
To:
mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
Sent:
Saturday, January 12, 2008 4:26 PM
Subject:
Re: [nfbwatlk] Target thinks blindness is a laughing matter:
Hi,
It is a blindness issue. If Kay weren't blind, she wouldn't have asked to
have the menu read to her.
Thanks
Lauren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Freeman" < mailto:k7uij at panix.com k7uij at panix.com
>
To: "NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List" < mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Target thinks blindness is a laughing matter:
> Work by the local chapter is beneficial when it will have an effect.
> But, at least in my view, the manager of the store is likely to move on
> in six months or so and the vagaries of human existence and corporate
> pressure will make him/her forget our "training" sooner rather than
> later.
>
> And a letter to the editor is a double-edged sword: while many may
> understand our indignance at one of our own being laughed at, I fear me
> greatly that the message will be perceived as mixed and people will come
> away thinking that we, the blind, must be handled with kid gloves. While
> the operative principle here is that *no* customer should be treated
> rudely, people (including ourselves) won't focus on this fundamental
> principle and will, instead, focus on the blindness angle. Why else
> would a blindness group get involved?
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Sellers
> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Target thinks blindness is a laughing matter:
>
>
>
> I agree in not making a 'Federal' case out of it. But, I believe, it
> is a
> good opportunity for the local chapter to contact the store and make
> an
> appointment with the manager to educate and inform him/her, regarding
> treatment of blind customers. If the local NFBW chapter is not
> encouraged to
> get involved in a situation like this, the questioned could be asked.
> What
> is the purpose of the local chapter or how serious must insensitive
> treatment become before it is acted upon? Even a letter to the editor
> to the
> local newspaper may be beneficial.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:25 PM
> To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Target thinks blindness is a laughing matter:
>
> Fellow listers:
>
> I realize that Kay is mightily perturbed over this whole incident. Who
> can blame her? But let's get the emotion out of the discussion and
> look
> at this logically in light of NFB philosophy and in light of what
> might
> be effective. I realize that what I say next may not go down well with
> some of you. So be it; you elected me to lead and you have the power
> of
> the vote; my term is up this year. (grin)
>
> First, let's consider Lisa's suggestion that we go to the press
> concerning this incident. If Kay were sighted, would this incident
> have
> been worthy of press notice? I submit that the answer is a resounding
> NO! The press wouldn't give the time of day to someone who issued a
> press release saying they were laughed at or treated rudely at a
> store.
> The general response would be: if you don't like it, shop elsewhere!
> Then if this is true and given that we of NFB wish to be integrated
> into
> society on the basis of equality with the sighted and if we maintain
> that blindness is just another characteristic with which we must live
> and is nnot much more than a nuisance, do we *really* wish to be
> treated
> differentially with respect to blindness? I submit that the answer to
> this question, too, is a resounding NO. I further submit that
> complaining to the press about this would play on the sympathy card
> and
> in the end would accomplish a purpose quite contrary to that which we
> all want -- to be treated the same as everyone else. So I believe that
> trying to arrange a protest or get pres coverage of this incident is
> counterproductive at best.
>
> Now let's consider how effective a boycott might be. Yes, I know; we
> all
> grew up with knowledge of the glory days of civil rights when
> African-americans boycotted busses and other services. But in the
> instances where such boycotts were effective, African-americans were a
> majority of the customers of the entities being boycotted. That is not
> the situation here. Target has revenues of over $2 billion a year; any
> boycott we might arrange would be a drop -- not just in a bucket but
> in
> a thimble -- compared to this revenue. So it would be like spitting
> into
> the wind. It would be wasted effort. WE have enough discrimination
> problems so that we don't need to scatter our shots on ventures that
> are
> not likely to be effective.
>
> The one possible way I can see to protest Kay's treatment would be for
> her to file a complaint with the U.s. Department of Justice under
> Title
> III of the ADA alleging that she didn't receive reasonable
> accommodations in gaining access to the menu. But this is a long,
> drawn-out process and, I submit, not worth the bother.
>
> Am I saying that what happened to Kay was right? Of course not. Is it
> of
> sufficient gravity to make a Federal case out of? I don't think so.
> There's a lot in life that isn't right. But sometimes the best thing
> to
> do is to ignore it or, in this case, take one's business to a
> different
> store.
>
> The Serenity Prayer applies in spades!
>
> Now I'll put on my fire-resistant suit. <g>
>
> Mike Freeman, President
> NFB of Washington
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mailto:Owenblue2 at aol.com Owenblue2 at aol.com
> To: mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Target thinks blindness is a laughing
> matter:
>
>
> Ok; let's see how much they laugh if we boycott their stores and
> Pizza
> Hut
> as well. I think you should go to the press. I am furious and mad as
> a
> hornet!
> How dare they treat you this way!
>
> Whatever you decide to do I support you all the way.
>
> Lisa Owen
>
>
>
> **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
> ( http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004 http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004
)
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfbwatlk mailing list
> mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk
>
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.13 - Release Date:
> 12/31/2007
> 12:00 AM
>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.1/1219 - Release Date:
> 1/11/2008
> 10:19 AM
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfbwatlk mailing list
> mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> nfbwatlk mailing list
> mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1221 - Release Date: 1/12/2008
2:04 PM
_______________________________________________
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