[nfbwatlk] drawing blood and reading visual cues

[Mike Freeman]

Jenifer:

I knew Charlotte and Cheranne. Charlotte was a lovely lady and 
tragically passed away long before one would have expected. Certainly, 
this had an effect upon Cheranne as did her time with her aunt and uncle 
who may well have been overprotective.

Having known both Charlotte and Cheranne, however, I would say that 
there were problems in addition to a childhood and adolescence lacking 
in the sort of encouragement that we advocate.

Put simply, things weren't quite as simple as one might think.

It is often thus.

Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jedi
  To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
  Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] drawing blood and reading visual cues


  Lisa,

  I agree with everything that's been said here. But I would also add 
that,
  sometimes, those who have our best interests at heart can do us the 
most
  damage. I'm reminded of Cheranne. I don't know if I spelled her name 
right,
  but anyway... Her mother was a leader in the Parents; division back in 
the
  late eighties and early nineties. Cheranne was the poster child for 
what a
  blind person should be doing at different stages of development. She 
did
  chores just like any other kid. She went to school. Her mother had 
high
  expectations. I don't know if she ever met any blind people before her
  daughter, but it was clear that, if not, the Federation had a good 
influence
  on her. Unfortunately, Cheranne's mother died, and Cheranne was sent 
to her
  aunt and uncle. Neither of them had any experience with blindness 
other than
  what they thought they new, and they were not connected with the 
Federation
  or any other organization for that matter. There is no doubt that 
Cheranne's
  family loved her. And I'm sure that they supported her. But through 
their
  expectations for what they thought a blind person could do, Cheranne 
lost
  many of the abilities she had as a child. Even now and after her 
training at
  the LCB, she still struggles with some of the daily tasks we take for
  granted. Obviously, this is a dramatic example. But it offers us the 
notion
  that, with all due respect, we have to continuously examine our 
expectations
  for ourselves, as well as those our loved ones, friends, colleagues, 
and
  even acquaintances have for us. I hope that helps.

  Respectfully,
  Jedi

  -----Original Message-----
  From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
On
  Behalf Of Mary Ellen
  Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 7:10 PM
  To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
  Subject: [nfbwatlk] drawing blood and reading visual cues

  Hi Lisa,
  Your husband obviously cares enough about you to discuss his questions 
and
  doubts honestly. Without honest discussion we can't grow and learn.
  I had the same doubts about a blind doctor drawing blood until I met a
  medical student who did it routinely. The faculty at the medical 
school she
  was attending had serious doubts about a blind person's becoming a
  physician, but they told her she was the best in her class at drawing 
blood.
  Do I know how she did it? Not in a million years! But you can't argue 
that a
  thing requires sight when somebody has done it without sight. It would 
be
  more helpful to you if I could remember the woman's name, but alas I 
can't.

  As for the need for a psychiatrist to observe nonvisual cues, the same 
has
  been said about blind psychologists, social workers, counselors, etc. 
We all
  know loads of blind people who have succeeded in those professions, so 
I
  think the visual observance of body language is a matter which can be
  handled nonvisually by listening. Of course, there are times when it 
would
  be useful to get information on the appearance of a patient. Is he 
wearing a
  tailored suit or walking around in dirty mismatched shabby clothes? 
The
  Human Services Division of the ;NFB includes a nummber of individuals 
who
  could help you answer your questions about observing visual cues.

  As more and more of us succeed in professions which were previously
  considered to be visual, the answers to these questions will be easier 
to
  find. In the meantime, good for you and your husband; keep talking to 
and
  challenging one another's notions. Thanks for sharing the discussion 
with
  the rest of us. Perhaps someone else on the list can come up with 
names I
  don't have. Dr. Mark Strax (not sure of spelling) is a blind physician
  within the NFB. I also read an artidcle a year ago about a blind 
person
  graduating from medical school, I believe it was somewhere in Oregon. 
Good
  luck. Please keep us posted.

  Mary Ellen

  _______________________________________________
  nfbwatlk mailing list
  nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk
-------------- next part --------------
Jenifer:
 
I knew Charlotte and Cheranne. Charlotte was a lovely lady and tragically passed away long before one would have expected. Certainly, this had an effect upon Cheranne as did her time with her aunt and uncle who may well have been overprotective.
 
Having known both Charlotte and Cheranne, however, I would say that there were problems in addition to a childhood and adolescence lacking in the sort of encouragement that we advocate.
 
Put simply, things weren't quite as simple as one might think.
 
It is often thus.
 
Mike
 
----- Original Message -----
From:
mailto:blindjedi at clearwire.net Jedi
To:
mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
Sent:
Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:19 AM
Subject:
Re: [nfbwatlk] drawing blood and reading visual cues
Lisa,
I agree with everything that's been said here. But I would also add that,
sometimes, those who have our best interests at heart can do us the most
damage. I'm reminded of Cheranne. I don't know if I spelled her name right,
but anyway... Her mother was a leader in the Parents; division back in the
late eighties and early nineties. Cheranne was the poster child for what a
blind person should be doing at different stages of development. She did
chores just like any other kid. She went to school. Her mother had high
expectations. I don't know if she ever met any blind people before her
daughter, but it was clear that, if not, the Federation had a good influence
on her. Unfortunately, Cheranne's mother died, and Cheranne was sent to her
aunt and uncle. Neither of them had any experience with blindness other than
what they thought they new, and they were not connected with the Federation
or any other organization for that matter. There is no doubt that Cheranne's
family loved her. And I'm sure that they supported her. But through their
expectations for what they thought a blind person could do, Cheranne lost
many of the abilities she had as a child. Even now and after her training at
the LCB, she still struggles with some of the daily tasks we take for
granted. Obviously, this is a dramatic example. But it offers us the notion
that, with all due respect, we have to continuously examine our expectations
for ourselves, as well as those our loved ones, friends, colleagues, and
even acquaintances have for us. I hope that helps.
Respectfully,
Jedi
-----Original Message-----
From: mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Mary Ellen
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 7:10 PM
To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
Subject: [nfbwatlk] drawing blood and reading visual cues
Hi Lisa,
Your husband obviously cares enough about you to discuss his questions and
doubts honestly. Without honest discussion we can't grow and learn.
I had the same doubts about a blind doctor drawing blood until I met a
medical student who did it routinely. The faculty at the medical school she
was attending had serious doubts about a blind person's becoming a
physician, but they told her she was the best in her class at drawing blood.
Do I know how she did it? Not in a million years! But you can't argue that a
thing requires sight when somebody has done it without sight. It would be
more helpful to you if I could remember the woman's name, but alas I can't.
 
As for the need for a psychiatrist to observe nonvisual cues, the same has
been said about blind psychologists, social workers, counselors, etc. We all
know loads of blind people who have succeeded in those professions, so I
think the visual observance of body language is a matter which can be
handled nonvisually by listening. Of course, there are times when it would
be useful to get information on the appearance of a patient. Is he wearing a
tailored suit or walking around in dirty mismatched shabby clothes? The
Human Services Division of the ;NFB includes a nummber of individuals who
could help you answer your questions about observing visual cues.
 
As more and more of us succeed in professions which were previously
considered to be visual, the answers to these questions will be easier to
find. In the meantime, good for you and your husband; keep talking to and
challenging one another's notions. Thanks for sharing the discussion with
the rest of us. Perhaps someone else on the list can come up with names I
don't have. Dr. Mark Strax (not sure of spelling) is a blind physician
within the NFB. I also read an artidcle a year ago about a blind person
graduating from medical school, I believe it was somewhere in Oregon. Good
luck. Please keep us posted.
 
Mary Ellen
_______________________________________________
nfbwatlk mailing list
mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk