[nfbwatlk] Alert about increase in audible traffic signals

[Mike Freeman]

Is it not disingenuous to "give people the courage to travel" by giving 
them the notion that they are safer when, in fact, they are not?

Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alco Canfield
  To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
  Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 11:05 AM
  Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Alert about increase in audible traffic 
signals


  Hi, Dean,

  I appreciate your comments.  As I said in an earlier post, for those 
really
  short lights, I think audible signals are a real boon.  I have been 
thinking
  about this a lot, and it occurs to me that older people or those who 
have
  recently experienced vision loss might choose to venture out more 
because of
  these signals. If audible signals give fearful people the courage to 
travel,
  they have served a good purpose

  Audible signal success will depend upon the planning that goes into 
their
  installation.

  Traffic has gotten worse and many people using cell phones are not 
paying
  attention to traffic lights or pedestrians.

  Having been hit by a car (not my fault, but you can be dead right), I 
had to
  force myself for years to cross busy intersections.  I will admit that 
I am
  not as adventurous as I used to be re travel.

  I am glad you are still getting out there.  I personally don't see the 
need
  for these signals on straight forward intersections, but I can 
appreciate
  their value on more complex crossings.

  Continue to comment.

  Alco

  -----Original Message-----
  From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
On
  Behalf Of Dean Martineau
  Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:21 AM
  To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
  Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Alert about increase in audible traffic 
signals

  I like audio traffic signals, and believe some of the blanket 
criticism of
  them is not well informed.

  I have lived in foreign countries, travel to many Us cities.  I go 
lots of
  places.  And doing so for me is a struggle.  Depending on what I'm 
carrying,
  as well as many other factors I can't ascertain, straight lines and 
being
  sure about traffic patterns happen, or they don't.  I've been as 
trained as
  opportunities allowed.  Maybe a year of immersion in mobility training 
would
  help, but I'm not convinced, and in any event, it isn't going to 
happen for
  many reasons.  So here I am, and here, I submit, are a lot of other, 
many of
  whom lack my training and perhaps some other attributes as well.

  So it is that when I encounter an audio signal, I breathe a little 
easier.
  I have a piece of environmental information I can use.

  Some of the comments on this subject are really humorous.  As if a 
person is
  going to ignore traffic and just focus on an audio signal!  So do we 
assume
  that sighted travelers are staring fixedly at the walk signal and
  disregarding the rest of the environment?  We should outlaw the walk 
signals
  as public dangers!  After all, all those sighted people are getting 
killed
  because they aren't watching the traffic!

  Near my home is an intersection where the light is short going in my
  direction.  The walk signal comes on a few seconds before the parallel
  traffic starts, as is typical.  Those few extra seconds would be very 
useful
  to be able to use to cross, and even more so because sometimes there 
is not
  parallel traffic.  So I look very impressive as a blind person, 
standing
  there while the walk signal is on, when there isn't parallel traffic.

  I understand that I am preaching to the anti-choir here, and that a 
few
  competent travelers, who are among those who set organizational 
philosophy,
  make all the decisions.  It is unfortunate that collaboration can't 
occur to
  support installation of some audible signals at certain intersections 
for
  the benefit of some of us horrible, bad, under-indoctrinated people 
who
  would love to have walk signals just like sighted people have, and for 
whom
  having such signals would probably enhance our safety.  In my 
experience,
  having audible signals, even the coo-coo ones that are not the best 
choice
  does not impair my ability to listen for people who might run the red 
light.
  And I'm sure that a goodly number of folks with vision loss of one 
degree or
  another would appreciate advances in this area if they were actually 
to be
  consulted.

  Note that I have traveled for decades without audible signals and will
  continue to do so.  I also give the party line to those who express 
the
  belief that I need audible signals to travel.  But in fact, I would 
love
  more audible signals, so I could tell parallel traffic from turn 
traffic on
  those days when I can't seem to do it very well myself, or for 
intersections
  like the one I described earlier.  And I know the vocal ones here will
  unitedly scream their rejection and ridicule of my feelings, but some 
less
  vocal members will agree and feel slightly affirmed.  It's a little 
like
  mandatory or automatic calling of bus stops.  Yes, I can survive 
without
  them, but I, and a lot of silent and invisible people, benefit from 
them.

  Dean

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-------------- next part --------------
Is it not disingenuous to "give people the courage to travel" by giving them the notion that they are safer when, in fact, they are not?
 
Mike
 
----- Original Message -----
From:
mailto:amcanfield at comcast.net Alco Canfield
To:
mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
Sent:
Monday, September 24, 2007 11:05 AM
Subject:
Re: [nfbwatlk] Alert about increase in audible traffic signals
Hi, Dean,
I appreciate your comments.  As I said in an earlier post, for those really
short lights, I think audible signals are a real boon.  I have been thinking
about this a lot, and it occurs to me that older people or those who have
recently experienced vision loss might choose to venture out more because of
these signals. If audible signals give fearful people the courage to travel,
they have served a good purpose
Audible signal success will depend upon the planning that goes into their
installation. 
Traffic has gotten worse and many people using cell phones are not paying
attention to traffic lights or pedestrians. 
Having been hit by a car (not my fault, but you can be dead right), I had to
force myself for years to cross busy intersections.  I will admit that I am
not as adventurous as I used to be re travel. 
I am glad you are still getting out there.  I personally don't see the need
for these signals on straight forward intersections, but I can appreciate
their value on more complex crossings.
Continue to comment.
Alco 
-----Original Message-----
From: mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Dean Martineau
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:21 AM
To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Alert about increase in audible traffic signals
I like audio traffic signals, and believe some of the blanket criticism of
them is not well informed.
I have lived in foreign countries, travel to many Us cities.  I go lots of
places.  And doing so for me is a struggle.  Depending on what I'm carrying,
as well as many other factors I can't ascertain, straight lines and being
sure about traffic patterns happen, or they don't.  I've been as trained as
opportunities allowed.  Maybe a year of immersion in mobility training would
help, but I'm not convinced, and in any event, it isn't going to happen for
many reasons.  So here I am, and here, I submit, are a lot of other, many of
whom lack my training and perhaps some other attributes as well. 
So it is that when I encounter an audio signal, I breathe a little easier.
I have a piece of environmental information I can use. 
Some of the comments on this subject are really humorous.  As if a person is
going to ignore traffic and just focus on an audio signal!  So do we assume
that sighted travelers are staring fixedly at the walk signal and
disregarding the rest of the environment?  We should outlaw the walk signals
as public dangers!  After all, all those sighted people are getting killed
because they aren't watching the traffic! 
Near my home is an intersection where the light is short going in my
direction.  The walk signal comes on a few seconds before the parallel
traffic starts, as is typical.  Those few extra seconds would be very useful
to be able to use to cross, and even more so because sometimes there is not
parallel traffic.  So I look very impressive as a blind person, standing
there while the walk signal is on, when there isn't parallel traffic.
I understand that I am preaching to the anti-choir here, and that a few
competent travelers, who are among those who set organizational philosophy,
make all the decisions.  It is unfortunate that collaboration can't occur to
support installation of some audible signals at certain intersections for
the benefit of some of us horrible, bad, under-indoctrinated people who
would love to have walk signals just like sighted people have, and for whom
having such signals would probably enhance our safety.  In my experience,
having audible signals, even the coo-coo ones that are not the best choice
does not impair my ability to listen for people who might run the red light.
And I'm sure that a goodly number of folks with vision loss of one degree or
another would appreciate advances in this area if they were actually to be
consulted. 
Note that I have traveled for decades without audible signals and will
continue to do so.  I also give the party line to those who express the
belief that I need audible signals to travel.  But in fact, I would love
more audible signals, so I could tell parallel traffic from turn traffic on
those days when I can't seem to do it very well myself, or for intersections
like the one I described earlier.  And I know the vocal ones here will
unitedly scream their rejection and ridicule of my feelings, but some less
vocal members will agree and feel slightly affirmed.  It's a little like
mandatory or automatic calling of bus stops.  Yes, I can survive without
them, but I, and a lot of silent and invisible people, benefit from them.
Dean
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