[nfbwatlk] HAVE the blind lost their way or their will? Never!

Tue Nov 27 22:43:00 CST 2007

Carl:

I agree almost completely with your post below, most assuredly including 
the endorsement of healthy debate. My only caveat is that we must not 
confuse informed debate with hot air when issues are discussed and 
discussed and discussed ad nauseum when it is pretty clear that no minds 
are thereby changed and when it is also clear that the two sides are, in 
effect, talking past each other. That said, however, you are right.

Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Carl Jarvis
  To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
  Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:06 AM
  Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] *HAVE* the blind lost their way or their will? 
Never!

  Good morning Jedi and all wide awake debaters,
  Jedi, you wrote, "...All that being said, how do you expect
  for us to get employed when there's a question of our overall ability 
to
  take care of ourselves?..."

  And you have put your finger smack dab in the center of the issue.
  While it is important to debate the impact or value of such 
innovations as
  audible traffic signals or identifiable paper currency, your question 
is the
  one we must solve.
  And all I am trying to say is that to me, the solution does not hinge 
on
  what kinds of aids or accommodations we decide are appropriate for us. 
What
  will bring us to equal status in our community must begin within 
ourselves.
  Teaching our brothers and sisters to believe that they are worthy and 
equal
  people.  And then, although a positive attitude goes a long way toward
  convincing others of our competency, it will take strong legislation,
  forcing the public to treat us as equals.  Acceptance comes much 
slower, but
  it will come.
  Meanwhile, turning on ourselves and dumping on folks who do not agree 
with
  our beliefs does us far more harm than good.
  Personally I do not support the concept that all traffic signals 
should be
  audible.  Maybe a few at particularly difficult crossings, but 
certainly not
  the coocoo and chirpchirp signals.
  These signals do not assist those of us who have good travel skills. 
And
  they do not assist the older or untrained folks, either.  Older blind 
people
  generally have additional age-related issues, and travel with 
companions.
  Those who try using the signals are often confused and can't remember
  whether to cross on the coocoo or the chirpchirp.
  But audible traffic signals are not going to change the deep seated 
public
  attitudes about blindness.
  The long white cane, our sign of independence, does not change the 
erroneous
  beliefs about blindness.  After all of the years we have been learning 
to
  function competently in our world we still face a 70 percent 
unemployment
  rate.
  I am not suggesting that we forget trying to develop better tools.  We 
must
  stay current with the technology of the day.  But I am saying that 
this is
  not what will bring us to our place in the sun.
  That day will only come when we believe in ourselves strongly enough 
that we
  forcibly take our proper place in society.
  Meanwhile, at times our efforts may appear misguided to others.  In an 
open
  society this is often the case.  People are free to try many ideas, 
not all
  of them of much value.  But this does not make them evil, or bad, or 
stupid,
  or...
  It makes them human.  Usually it means that they care.  Open debate 
then
  becomes very important.  By fairly debating issues, we tend to expand 
our
  thinking and educate one another.  Debate among equals is healthy.
  That's all I'm trying to say.

  Carl Jarvis

  _______________________________________________
  nfbwatlk mailing list
  nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk
-------------- next part --------------
Carl:

I agree almost completely with your post below, most assuredly including the endorsement of healthy debate. My only caveat is that we must not confuse informed debate with hot air when issues are discussed and discussed and discussed ad nauseum when it is pretty clear that no minds are thereby changed and when it is also clear that the two sides are, in effect, talking past each other. That said, however, you are right.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From:
mailto:carjar at olypen.com Carl Jarvis
To:
mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
Sent:
Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:06 AM
Subject:
Re: [nfbwatlk] *HAVE* the blind lost their way or their will? Never!
Good morning Jedi and all wide awake debaters,
Jedi, you wrote, "...All that being said, how do you expect
for us to get employed when there's a question of our overall ability to
take care of ourselves?..."
And you have put your finger smack dab in the center of the issue.
While it is important to debate the impact or value of such innovations as
audible traffic signals or identifiable paper currency, your question is the
one we must solve.
And all I am trying to say is that to me, the solution does not hinge on
what kinds of aids or accommodations we decide are appropriate for us.  What
will bring us to equal status in our community must begin within ourselves.
Teaching our brothers and sisters to believe that they are worthy and equal
people.  And then, although a positive attitude goes a long way toward
convincing others of our competency, it will take strong legislation,
forcing the public to treat us as equals.  Acceptance comes much slower, but
it will come.
Meanwhile, turning on ourselves and dumping on folks who do not agree with
our beliefs does us far more harm than good.
Personally I do not support the concept that all traffic signals should be
audible.  Maybe a few at particularly difficult crossings, but certainly not
the coocoo and chirpchirp signals.
These signals do not assist those of us who have good travel skills.  And
they do not assist the older or untrained folks, either.  Older blind people
generally have additional age-related issues, and travel with companions.
Those who try using the signals are often confused and can't remember
whether to cross on the coocoo or the chirpchirp.
But audible traffic signals are not going to change the deep seated public
attitudes about blindness.
The long white cane, our sign of independence, does not change the erroneous
beliefs about blindness.  After all of the years we have been learning to
function competently in our world we still face a 70 percent unemployment
rate.
I am not suggesting that we forget trying to develop better tools.  We must
stay current with the technology of the day.  But I am saying that this is
not what will bring us to our place in the sun.
That day will only come when we believe in ourselves strongly enough that we
forcibly take our proper place in society.
Meanwhile, at times our efforts may appear misguided to others.  In an open
society this is often the case.  People are free to try many ideas, not all
of them of much value.  But this does not make them evil, or bad, or stupid,
or...
It makes them human.  Usually it means that they care.  Open debate then
becomes very important.  By fairly debating issues, we tend to expand our
thinking and educate one another.  Debate among equals is healthy.
That's all I'm trying to say.
Carl Jarvis
_______________________________________________
nfbwatlk mailing list
mailto:nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk