[nfbwatlk] FW: Question About Bus Signage

Thu May 3 09:51:50 CDT 2007

Question:  If all the bus stops in Vancouver are not located in
about the same location, do the bus drivers stop if they see a
white cane or guide dog if one is standing in about the right
place for the bus stop or do the drivers just whiz by?  

Wanda

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Sellers
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 12:20 AM
To: 'Jacob Struiksma'; 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] FW: Question About Bus Signage

In Vancouver, all the bus stop poles are square with numerous
holes in them.

Quite unique. The problem in finding them, is that, sometimes
they may be

near the curb or sometimes just off the sidewalk away from the
curb.

Bob

-----Original Message-----

From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On

Behalf Of Jacob Struiksma

Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:46 PM

To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List

Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] FW: Question About Bus Signage

The issue is that there is not a standard for  bus stop pulls.
Some bust 

stop pulls are big round, small round, big squares, small squares
and other 

types of pulls.  It would be best to use the small square pull
that is medal

so you can find the bus stop with your cane or dog.

from

Jacob Struiksma

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Robert Sellers" <robertsellers500 at comcast.net>

To: "'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'" <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>

Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:08 PM

Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] FW: Question About Bus Signage

The purpose for this discussion, is that, the 4 and the 44 route
will share

bus stops. However, the #4  bus , will stop every couple of
blocks, whereas,

the # 44, is an 'express' and will only stop a few times going
down 4th

Plain. Both the 4 and 44 route will share bus tops. Therefore,
there is an

attempt by C-tran to come up with a sign that will highlight the
44 stops.

I agree with Kaye, For those of us who are blind or have very
little usable

sight, if you can't find the bus stop pole, the kind of sign is
irrelevant.

There is no uniform location for bus stop signs. For the
partially sighted,

color coding may be practical. As to having the sign low enough
for partials

to read or have Braille on them and the concern of hitting them
before

finding them. Why not make the sign rubberized for flexibility.
But again,

what good does it do if you can't find the sign!!

Bob

  -----Original Message-----

From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On

Behalf Of Mike Freeman

Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 7:54 PM

To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List

Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] FW: Question About Bus Signage

Seems to me we visited this issue many years ago -- like
twenty-five

years ago, perhaps. At that time, it was the conclusion of most
of us

that if a sign were low enough for a totally-blind person to be
able to

read it, it was more likely that his/her head would find the sign
than

would his/her hands. (grin) This would be doubly so if a sign
were large

enough to have large-print on it. The immediate solution was, as
I

recall, to have a larger-than-life sign high enough that it would
be

unlikely to suffer the ignominy of being read by one's head while
also

being large enough that a partially-sighted person could read it.

Perhaps a good compromise now would be to have poles for C-Tran
signs

drilled as most of them now are (so that one could tell a C-Tran
sign by

touch) with a plackard slightly wider than the pole -- say four
inches

long -- with braille and print bus number on it. While this might
not be

large enough for the partially-sighted (I wouldn't know, not
being

partially-sighted), it would be unlikely to cause problems even
if one

*did* run into it.

Just a top-of-the-head thought.

Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 

  From: Doug Trimble

  To: Peggy Gallagher ; Judy Koch-Smith ; Cheri DeLyria ; Shelly
Brown ;

Arnold, Daniel ; NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List ; James
Eccles

  Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:51 AM

  Subject: [nfbwatlk] FW: Question About Bus Signage

  Here is an e-mail I received from Rhonda Peck from C-tran.  She
would

  appreciate any thoughts you may have about signage for C-tran
stops.

  Doug Trimble

  Orientation & Mobility Instructor

  Off Campus Work Advisor

  Washington State School for the Blind

  2214 E. 13th Street Vancouver,  WA  98661

  office ph. 360-696-6321 #118

  cell:360-909-0833

  From: Ronda Peck [mailto:RondaP at c-tran.org]

  Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 8:16 AM

  To: Doug Trimble

  Subject: Question About Bus Signage

  Doug,

  Hope this email finds you well. I have a question for you. I'm

  investigating bus stop signage for low-vision and
sight-impaired

people.

  We'd like to start with route numbers 44 and 4.

  The idea is to place something on the bus stop pole itself.
That way,

  when a low-vision or sight-impaired individual walks up to
touch the

  pole, that particular stop will be easily identified through
special

  signage with raised lettering and/or braille.

  My initial thoughts are that we should incorporate both raised
letters

  and braille on the signage. Also, I think something more
permanent,

like

  a metal plaque mounted to the pole, makes more sense than
something

with

  adhesive that could easily be ripped off by vandals.

  What are your thoughts? Any suggestions?

  Thank you for your consideration!

  Ronda

  Ronda Peck

  Marketing/Community Outreach Administrator

  PO Box 2529

  Vancouver, WA 98668-2529

  (360) 696-4494

  rondap at c-tran.org

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Question:  If all the bus stops in
Vancouver
are not located in about the same location, do the bus drivers stop if they see a white cane or guide dog if one is standing in about the right place for the bus stop or do the drivers just whiz by? 

Wanda

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Sellers
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 12:20 AM
To: 'Jacob Struiksma'; '
NFB of
Washington
Talk Mailing List
'
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] FW: Question About Bus Signage

In
Vancouver
, all the bus stop poles are square with numerous holes in them.
Quite unique. The problem in finding them, is that, sometimes they may be
near the curb or sometimes just off the sidewalk away from the curb.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jacob Struiksma
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:46 PM
To:
NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] FW: Question About Bus Signage

The issue is that there is not a standard for  bus stop pulls.  Some bust
stop pulls are big round, small round, big squares, small squares and other
types of pulls.  It would be best to use the small square pull that is medal

so you can find the bus stop with your cane or dog.
from
Jacob Struiksma
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Sellers" <robertsellers500 at comcast.net>
To: "'
NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
'" <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] FW: Question About Bus Signage

The purpose for this discussion, is that, the 4 and the 44 route will share
bus stops. However, the #4  bus , will stop every couple of blocks, whereas,
the # 44, is an 'express' and will only stop a few times going down 4th
Plain. Both the 4 and 44 route will share bus tops. Therefore, there is an
attempt by C-tran to come up with a sign that will highlight the 44 stops.

I agree with Kaye, For those of us who are blind or have very little usable
sight, if you can't find the bus stop pole, the kind of sign is irrelevant.
There is no uniform location for bus stop signs. For the partially sighted,
color coding may be practical. As to having the sign low enough for partials
to read or have Braille on them and the concern of hitting them before
finding them. Why not make the sign rubberized for flexibility. But again,
what good does it do if you can't find the sign!!

Bob

  -----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Freeman
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 7:54 PM
To:
NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] FW: Question About Bus Signage

Seems to me we visited this issue many years ago -- like twenty-five
years ago, perhaps. At that time, it was the conclusion of most of us
that if a sign were low enough for a totally-blind person to be able to
read it, it was more likely that his/her head would find the sign than
would his/her hands. (grin) This would be doubly so if a sign were large
enough to have large-print on it. The immediate solution was, as I
recall, to have a larger-than-life sign high enough that it would be
unlikely to suffer the ignominy of being read by one's head while also
being large enough that a partially-sighted person could read it.

Perhaps a good compromise now would be to have poles for C-Tran signs
drilled as most of them now are (so that one could tell a C-Tran sign by
touch) with a plackard slightly wider than the pole -- say four inches
long -- with braille and print bus number on it. While this might not be
large enough for the partially-sighted (I wouldn't know, not being
partially-sighted), it would be unlikely to cause problems even if one
*did* run into it.

Just a top-of-the-head thought.

Mike

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Doug Trimble
  To: Peggy Gallagher ; Judy Koch-Smith ; Cheri DeLyria ; Shelly Brown ;
Arnold, Daniel ;
NFB of
Washington
Talk Mailing List
; James Eccles
  Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:51 AM
  Subject: [nfbwatlk] FW: Question About Bus Signage

  Here is an e-mail I received from Rhonda Peck from C-tran.  She would
  appreciate any thoughts you may have about signage for C-tran stops.

  Doug Trimble
  Orientation & Mobility Instructor
  Off Campus Work Advisor

Washington
State
School
for the Blind

2214 E. 13th Street
Vancouver
, 
WA

98661
  office ph. 360-696-6321 #118
  cell:360-909-0833

  From: Ronda Peck [mailto:RondaP at c-tran.org]
  Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 8:16 AM
  To: Doug Trimble
  Subject: Question About Bus Signage

  Doug,

  Hope this email finds you well. I have a question for you. I'm
  investigating bus stop signage for low-vision and sight-impaired
people.
  We'd like to start with route numbers 44 and 4.

  The idea is to place something on the bus stop pole itself. That way,
  when a low-vision or sight-impaired individual walks up to touch the
  pole, that particular stop will be easily identified through special
  signage with raised lettering and/or braille.

  My initial thoughts are that we should incorporate both raised letters
  and braille on the signage. Also, I think something more permanent,
like
  a metal plaque mounted to the pole, makes more sense than something
with
  adhesive that could easily be ripped off by vandals.

  What are your thoughts? Any suggestions?

  Thank you for your consideration!

  Ronda

  Ronda Peck
  Marketing/Community Outreach Administrator

PO Box
2529

Vancouver
,
WA
98668-2529
  (360) 696-4494
  rondap at c-tran.org

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