[nfbwatlk] Talking Signs

Mackenstadt, Gary Gary.Mackenstadt at ed.gov
Fri Sep 8 15:55:56 CDT 2006 

I agree.  I read about that poor woman.  I heard that the guy on the bike did not break any laws.  I hope I'm misinformed.  It really seems that people, whther they are driving, riding a bike or walking, are a lot more careless than a few years ago.

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
Behalf Of Noel Nightingale
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:49 PM
To: 'Jacob'; 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Talking Signs




I have had trouble with bikes on sidewalks too.  I particularly detest
it when they run over my cane and don't bother to offer to pay for it or
even apologize.  Until last week, however, I viewed them entirely as a
nuisance.  Last week, a pedestrian was in downtown Seattle was knocked
off the sidewalk after being side-swiped by a bicyclist on the sidewalk.
She was thrown under the wheels of a bus and killed.  I now view that
issue with a bit more urgency than previously.

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Jacob
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:53 PM
To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Talking Signs


Yes I can agree with you on bikes.  There have been so many times that I

have been walking on the sidewalk and a bike come flying pass me and
almost 
could have been hit.  I have a few times where my cane has been caught
in 
the bike.  Seattle bike group and the city of Seattle are working on  a 
program to get more places where bikes have bike lanes on the street.
The 
Street funding that will be voted in Seattle in November will be part of

bike funding sidewalk funding, tree funding and street work to have
place 
where people can walk. ride bike and drive with good streets from Jacob
Struiksma
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List" <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Talking Signs


> Amen on the bikes!
>
> Mike
>
> On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, Mackenstadt, Gary wrote:
>
>> What about bikes?  I have had more problems with them. At least, 
>> quiet
>> cars are not on sidewalks.  As far as drivers are concerned, they 
>> represent a danger to everone.  Also, I am begining to have a concern

>> about people walk around downtown talking on their cell phones. 
>> Unfortunately, as blind persons, our only response can be good
training, 
>> experience and self-confidence.  Like the bad drivers, the quiet cars
are 
>> not going away.  Oh, for the horse and carriage.  Of course, in those

>> days, you had to worry about where you were stepping.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 11:41 AM
>> To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Talking Signs
>>
>>
>> In Noel's defense, however, the cheif problem with electrified cars 
>> -- hybrid or pure electric -- is that they make little or no noise 
>> when pulling out of a driveway or maneuvering slowly in a parking 
>> lot. In these instances, one really can't hear them. In fact, I 
>> understand that the Toyota manual warns hybrid car drivers to be 
>> mindful of pedestrians in parking lots. So quiet cars do take away 
>> somewhat from our defenses against nincompoop drivers coming out of 
>> driveways or zooming around in a Fred Meyer's parking lot while 
>> eating a Big Mac and talking on their cellphones. Hence, it would be 
>> nice if something could be done about them (both the cars and the 
>> nincompoops). I suspect, however, that both pose a similar danger to 
>> both the blind and the sighted. It certainly isn't going to impair my

>> impendence, however.
>>
>> Damn the torpedos ...
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, Mackenstadt, Gary wrote:
>>
>>> you will probably want to shoot me the next time you seeme.  It's 
>>> too
>>> bad you will not be at the luncheon on Saturday.  I am softening my 
>>> position on so-called quiet cars.  Last week, I came acroos one in 
>>> Sequim.  I was surprised when it went by.  I had no trouble hearing
it, 
>>> and I don't hear worth a damn.  It is an issue which we need to look
at, 
>>> but I no longer consider it the impending crisis that you do, 
>>> particularly when we think about all of the other traffic issues we
have 
>>> to confront.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
>>> Behalf Of Noel Nightingale
>>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:41 AM
>>> To: 'NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbwatlk] Talking Signs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In addition, the issue of talking signs is a distraction from the 
>>> real problem we are facing.  That is, the real danger to us losing 
>>> our independence.  The issue of quiet cars.  Particularly, when 
>>> hybrid cars are in their electric mode, they cannot be heard until 
>>> they are going quite fast.  That is the issue that government ought 
>>> to be fixing.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:nfbwatlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Mackenstadt, Gary
>>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:28 AM
>>> To: nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nfbwatlk] Talking Signs
>>>
>>>
>>> I have read with interest all of the comments about talking signs. 
>>> Quite frankly, they do not impress me.  Recognizing that I am being 
>>> extremely conservative on blindness issues once again, I still 
>>> cannot help but thinking that we spend a lot of time trying to 
>>> address the loss of sight.  Until blind persons are independent 
>>> travelers in the world, using either long white canes or dogs, it 
>>> seems to me that a lot of this stuff concerning travel and 
>>> technology is nonsense.  Blind persons have travelled very 
>>> compidently for a long time, provided that they had had the 
>>> necessary training, experience and confidence.  In my judgement, 
>>> technology like audible street signals have been more of a hindrance

>>> than a help.  Of course, technology has provided blind persons with 
>>> a lot of opportunity, particularly in school and on the job.  Also 
>>> technology available to the general public has created barriers to 
>>> the blind--the list is endless.  Of course, I carry a cell phone all

>>> the time and have used it a couple of time when lost; so who knows 
>>> what might be next.  Talking signs do nothing for me.  Maybe, I'm 
>>> just narrow-minded.
>>>
>>>
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