[Nfb-web] validation - Re: our website and accessibility

Mark Senk marksenk at adelphia.net
Sat Aug 26 19:07:47 CDT 2006 

How do you all feel about valid html?

I have been making more use of the checker at
validator.w3.org  for checking xhtml and css files.

I was surprised that nfb.org blindscience.org and nfblink.org all have 
some errors in the html code.

Should we expect valid html code from authoring tools?  Should affiliate 
webmasters take the extra time to check our pages?

Mark in Pittsburgh


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Westbrook" <westbc at clw19.com>
To: "NFB Webmaster's List" <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfb-web] our website and accessibility


: Unfortunately, you are right, because most forms are not designed 
correctly.
: That doesn't mean it has to be the case for our website though.
: Chris Westbrook
: email or msn messenger; westbc at clw19.com
: skype: chriswestbrook (please write a message that explains who you 
are if
: you add me to your contacts.)
: ----- Original Message ----- 
: From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
: To: "NFB Webmaster's List" <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
: Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 12:00 PM
: Subject: Re: [Nfb-web] our website and accessibility
:
:
: >I figure that's just one of the hazards of computer life for the 
blind.
: >
: > Mike Freeman
: >
: > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Peter Donahue wrote:
: >
: >> Hello Chris and listers,
: >>
: >> Come to think of it I had the same problem with JFW 7.0 in the 
suggestion
: >> form and had to keep going in and out of forms mode.
: >>
: >> Peter Donahue
: >>
: >>
: >> ----- Original Message -----
: >> From: "Chris Westbrook" <westbc at clw19.com>
: >> To: "NFB Webmaster's List" <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
: >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:32 AM
: >> Subject: Re: [Nfb-web] our website and accessibility
: >>
: >>
: >> First, let me apologize for the harshness of the below message.
: >> Unfortunately at times I have a tendency to make statements without 
fully
: >> analyzing what I am saying and how it may come across to others. 
Second,
: >> to
: >> answer your question, Steve, I realized that window eyes wasn't 
reading
: >> the
: >> controls of a form when browse mode is turned on when tabbing 
through
: >> form
: >> fields.  Interestingly, Jaws reads the information whether forms 
mode is
: >> on
: >> or off, probably guessing that since the text is in the table cell 
to the
: >> left of the form field it should be associated with the control. 
When
: >> browse
: >> mode is turned off in window eyes, window eyes makes this 
assumption as
: >> well
: >> and reads the form correctly.  I still think label tags should be 
used to
: >> make it clear what text is being associated with which control.  I 
have
: >> tested window eyes with a properly labeled form, and window eyes 
then
: >> reads
: >> the label whether browse mode is turned on or off.  By properly 
labeled,
: >> I
: >> mean a form that has the following format.  <label for="id of
: >> control">label
: >> of control on screen</label>...some markup here...<actual control 
with
: >> same
: >> id attribute of label/>.  again, I' sorry to have been so harsh 
below,
: >> and I
: >> hope this post is more helpful.
: >> Chris Westbrook
: >> email or msn messenger; westbc at clw19.com
: >> skype: chriswestbrook (please write a message that explains who you 
are
: >> if
: >> you add me to your contacts.)
: >> ----- Original Message -----
: >> From: "Berggren, John" <JBerggren at NFB.ORG>
: >> To: "NFB Webmaster's List" <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
: >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:06 AM
: >> Subject: Re: [Nfb-web] our website and accessibility
: >>
: >>
: >>> Good morning, Chris--
: >>>
: >>> Thanks for your comments about the Web site.  First and foremost, 
let me
: >>> assure you that accessibility is one of *the* top concerns when 
creating
: >>> Web content for the national site.  You are right on the money 
when you
: >>> suggest that we ought to be a model of accessibility for others. 
We
: >>> want to demonstrate to the Internet community that a Web site can 
be
: >>> functional, intuitive and aesthetically pleasing, all at the same 
time.
: >>>
: >>> In general, the xCatalyst CMS tool should create accessible 
content.
: >>> Before going live, we tested a number of forms on our site to 
ensure
: >>> that they were navigable and understandable using both Window Eyes 
and
: >>> JAWS.  We found the results to be satisfactory.  The forms 
examined
: >>> didn't use every type of field available, but should have been an
: >>> adequate check of general accessibility.
: >>>
: >>> Chris, I suspect that at least one of the forms you looked at was 
the
: >>> "Suggestions for..." page.  You're correct--xCatalyst doesn't 
create
: >>> label tags for its form fields.  However, I seem to remember that 
we
: >>> didn't have trouble getting Window Eyes to identify each field by 
name.
: >>> I'll get a look at that page right now.  It would be helpful, 
Chris, to
: >>> know what version of Window Eyes you are using.
: >>>
: >>> Our shift to a content management system and the migration to the 
new
: >>> site has been a learning experience, showing us better ways to do 
things
: >>> as well as what to never, ever do again.  We're trying to get it 
all
: >>> right the first time, but I promise you that's not going to always
: >>> happen.  The most useful thing our members can do is let us know 
what
: >>> doesn't work and what could be better.  Clearly, that's made a bit 
more
: >>> difficult when simple feedback forms don't work properly.  Don't
: >>> hesitate to email directly if you're having trouble with a 
particular
: >>> page or Web site function.
: >>>
: >>> The intention here is to provide a site that gets both our members 
and
: >>> visitors who are new to us the information they want as 
efficiently as
: >>> possible.  And this has to be done while raising the bar for
: >>> accessibility.  Your patience is appreciated, but your feedback is
: >>> imperative.  Work with us and we'll get these things straightened 
out in
: >>> exemplary fashion.
: >>>
: >>> Regards,
: >>> John
: >>>
: >>> John Berggren
: >>> IT Director
: >>> National Federation of the Blind
: >>> 1800 Johnson Street
: >>> Baltimore, MD  21230
: >>>
: >>> P : 410-659-9314 x2329
: >>> F : 410-685-5653
: >>> E : jberggren at nfb.org
: >>>
: >>>
: >>>
: >>> -----Original Message-----
: >>> From: nfb-web-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nfb-web-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
: >>> Behalf Of Chris Westbrook
: >>> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:58 AM
: >>> To: NFB Webmaster's List
: >>> Subject: [Nfb-web] our website and accessibility
: >>>
: >>> I was really disappointed when I looked at the website for our 
members
: >>> area yesterday.  I wasn't so disappointed at the sparseness of 
content,
: >>> Peter covered that eloquently Yesterday.  When I looked at the 
various
: >>> forms to submit suggestions and other things, I noticed they 
weren't
: >>> reading well with window eyes.  A quick look at the source reveals 
that
: >>> there are no label tags anywhere.  For those of you who don't 
know, a
: >>> label tag is a quick and standard way to associate text on the 
screen
: >>> with a control such as a form field.  I know we are getting our 
site
: >>> from a new content management system, but I would think 
accessibility
: >>> would have been part of the process in determining which cms to 
use.  I
: >>> think if we are going to advocate for accessibility, we need to 
have a
: >>> website that is completely accessible and be a model for others. 
I'm
: >>> really disappointed that we chose the easy way out with a cms that
: >>> doesn't output fully accessible content rather than look at our
: >>> membership to see who could assist with a redesign.  It makes me 
wonder
: >>> whether the national office functions above and outside of the
: >>> membership, but that's another discussion for another post.  I 
hope
: >>> things are handled better in the future.
: >>> Chris Westbrook
: >>> email or msn messenger; westbc at clw19.com
: >>> skype: chriswestbrook (please write a message that explains who 
you are
: >>> if you add me to your contacts.)
: >>> _______________________________________________
: >>> Nfb-web mailing list
: >>> Nfb-web at nfbnet.org
: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-web
: >>>
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: >>
: >> _______________________________________________
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: >> Nfb-web at nfbnet.org
: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-web
: >>
: >> _______________________________________________
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: >> Nfb-web at nfbnet.org
: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-web
: >>
: > _______________________________________________
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: > Nfb-web at nfbnet.org
: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-web
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