[nfb-talk] British using sound to assist the blind

Mon Feb 11 16:59:55 CST 2008

I was kidding also, certainly no offense taken, just realizing that what you
said was absolutely true.  So please don't assume I meant a real gotcha as I
took it in a light spirit 

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 5:13 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British using sound to assist the blind

It was not meant to be a Gotcha smile, only to indicate I wasn't trying to
start an argument.  I find the tapping of my cane very adequate as a sound
source for using 
echos on most hard surfaces.  In fact, I know I use it all the time and
always have.  It has fascinated me to some degree that something I take for
granted is 
completely unfamiliar to most blind people who became blind as adults.
While I believe it can be taught to some extent, it almost seems that it is
something learned 
most easily when one is young as are so many things.  Also, while I think
the ability to use echos in addition to a cane or dog can add some very
useful information to 
what one uses for travel, I am skeptical of claims that it improves posture
or brings about independence in and of itself as seems to have been claimed.

here at work, there is a wide carpeted hallway, and there is a doorway on
the left that I use to take the stairs up to my floor.  I can walk next to
the left wall and find 
the opening with my cane just fine, although that puts me against the
traffic to some degree.  However, if I am carrying something in a paper bag
in my left hand and 
I shake it a little, I have no trouble picking out the opening from the
middle of the hallway which places me perhaps ten feet away from the wall
using the sound of 
the rustling paper.  To have an acceptable way of doing that would be nice
and might be handy in other ways, too, but it would hardly change my life.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:20:41 -0500, seville allen wrote:

>Quite true (you did a gotcha) (smile) 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:38 PM
>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British using sound to assist the blind

>Unless you're on carpet or in a crowd.  <smile>

>On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:32:52 -0500, seville allen wrote:

>>Tapping a cane is quite acceptable; the tip provides echolocation.  

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 9:38 AM
>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British using sound to assist the blind

>>Sherri,

>>I think many of us used these techniques when we were kids and were
>>discouraged from using it because it was seen as socially unacceptable.
As
>>adults, we find 
>>other, less apparent ways to do the same thing as you indicated with the
>>snapping of your fingers.  I frankly agree that if I were to click with my
>>tongue as I did when 
>>I was a kid that it would certainly seem strange to others, however I have
>>felt that there should be a way to create a very small electronic sound
>>source that could fill 
>>the bill while perhaps being even more effective and acceptable.  

>>On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 07:36:24 -0500, Sherri wrote:

>>>Does anyone use a similar technique for echolocation as mentioned in the
>>below article? I sometimes will quietly snap my fingers if I am trying to
>>locate where an 
>>object is and that helps. To me, it's interesting that as blind people, we
>>have developed techniques that are now being taught by people who think
>>they've 
>>discovered some great idea that has never been tried before.
>>> 
>>>Sherri
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  From The Sunday Times
>>> 
>>>February 10, 2008
>>> 
>>>Blind taught to see like a bat
>>> 
>>>Mark Macaskill
>>> 
>>>BLIND British children are to be taught a pioneering bat-style
>echolocation
>>technique to visualise their surroundings.
>>> 
>>>The children are learning how to build up detailed images of the world
>>around them by clicking their tongue and interpreting the sound as it
>echoes
>>back.
>>> 
>>>The technique is used by animals such as bats, dolphins and whales to
>>navigate and hunt in the dark.
>>> 
>>>Bats are able to manoeuvre around caves and catch tiny insects on the
wing
>>by emitting short bursts of high-pitched noise and reading the sound waves
>>as
>>>they bounce back to their highly evolved ears.
>>> 
>>>There is emerging evidence that blind people can harness their sense of
>>hearing  which is often more acute  to interpret reflected sound and
>>create detailed
>>>mental images of their surroundings, including the distance, size and
>>density of objects.
>>> 
>>>The technique is being piloted in Glasgow, where 10 children aged five to
>>17 are being taught by staff from Visibility, one of the citys oldest
>>charities
>>>for the blind. The children are learning how to make the clicking sound
>and
>>how to use the technique even in noisy urban areas, including the
>>underground
>>>system.
>>> 
>>>Blind people in America, where human echolocation was pioneered, have
>>learnt to differentiate between people, trees, buildings and parked cars
by
>>interpreting
>>>the pitch and timbre of the echo they produce. Practitioners say they can
>>determine the height, density and shape of objects up to 100ft away.
>>> 
>>>People using echolocation can determine the distance they are from an
>>object by the length of time it takes for the sound to travel back. Its
>>position can
>>>be established by whether the echo hits the left or right ear first. The
>>size of an object can be determined by the intensity of the echo. A
smaller
>>object
>>>reflects less of the sound wave. The objects direction of movement can
be
>>established by the pitch of the echo, which is lower if it is moving away
>>from
>>>the source.
>>> 
>>>Echolocation has been endorsed by Professor Gordon Dutton, one of
>Britains
>>leading paediatric ophthalmologists, who wants the technique to be taught
>to
>>>blind and visually impaired people across the country. There are about
>>385,000 registered blind and partially sighted people in Britain.
>>> 
>>>Its very exciting, said Dutton, of the Royal Hospital for Sick
Children
>>in Glasgow. I have seen echolocation being used  its quite stunning. It
>>has
>>>been demonstrated to me that it absolutely works.
>>> 
>>>Of course there will be scepticism and doubt but the benefits are
without
>>question. It will make a massive difference to the lives of blind and
>>visually
>>>impaired people.
>>> 
>>>The project in Glasgow follows a visit last year by Dan Kish, a
>41-year-old
>>blind man from California, who pioneered the technique. Kish, who runs the
>>not-for-profit
>>>organisation World Access for the Blind, has also been commissioned by
the
>>charity Common Sense to present his method to the families of blind people
>>in
>>>Poole, Dorset.
>>> 
>>>His command of the technique is such that he can ride a bicycle on public
>>roads and distinguish between different types of fruit on trees merely by
>>clicking
>>>his tongue. A video on the website YouTube shows Kish and a number of his
>>friends demonstrating their skills.
>>> 
>>>Ben Underwood, a teenager who lost his sight when he was three, has also
>>become a celebrity in America because of his ability to use echolocation
to
>>ride
>>>a bike and to go skateboarding.
>>> 
>>>Although there have been no scientific studies of echolocation,
supporters
>>say it can hugely improve the lives of blind and partially sighted
>children.
>>> 
>>>While using a cane allows blind people to identify obstacles in their
>path,
>>echolocation is said to provide 360-degree vision and can give them far
>>greater
>>>freedom.
>>> 
>>>Its a type of seeing in its own right, which probably uses similar
brain
>>imaging mechanisms to eyesight, Kish said.
>>> 
>>>Students almost invariably become more confident, move faster and
>>participate in more activities, he continued. They show improved posture
>>and regard
>>>themselves as more able to direct themselves through their environment
>with
>>less need for others.
>>> 
>>>They are freer, and better able to choose the quality of life they wish
>to
>>achieve, rather than have this chosen for them.
>>> 
>>>Fiona Sandford, chief executive of Visibility, added: This is a
>pioneering
>>technique that will transform the lives of young blind children.
>>> 
>>>We have trained four visually impaired adults and they are now using
>their
>>skills to train children. We hope to roll this out to adults. I have seen
>it
>>>being used and it works.
>>> 
>>>Belgiums federal police use a unit of blind officers specifically for
>>their acute sense of hearing, in analysing phone taps and bugged
>>conversations in
>>>investigations of terrorism, drug trafficking and organised crime.
>>> 
>>>The detectives can separate the voices of different speakers and pick up
>>sonic clues such as whether a suspect is in a railway station or a
>>restaurant or
>>>whether the caller is using a land-line or mobile phone. Some officers
>have
>>even identified the make of car suspects are using.
>>> 
>>>A detective in Antwerp, Sacha van Loo, 36, who is trained in
echolocation,
>>correctly identified a drug smuggler as Albanian from his accent when
>>sighted
>>>colleagues thought the man was Moroccan.
>>> 
>>>Hollywood has also depicted the heightened senses of the blind. In the
>2003
>>film Dare-devil, Ben Affleck plays a New York lawyer, blinded in
childhood,
>>>who transforms himself into a masked crime-busting superhero by night,
>>using his acute hearing as a radar sense to see through the dark.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>___________________________________________________ 
>>>PLEASE NOTE: Florida has a very broad public records law (F. S. 119). All
>>e-mails to and from County Officials are kept as a public record. Your
>>e-mail
>>>communications, including your e-mail address may be disclosed to the
>>public and media at any time. 
>>> 
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>>12:21 PM

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