[nfb-talk] Convention attendees from Wisconsin?

Sat Apr 26 19:44:56 CDT 2008

Huh? I love those dollar coins.    I will never get a dollar coin confused 
with a $20. I might get a dollar bill confused with a $20 though.

Why don't you like them

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirk Harmon" <kvh54 at cfl.rr.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention attendees from Wisconsin?

>I have been listening to everybody discuss this difference in philosophy 
>for
> a week now!  This has been talked to death in my opinion, not just on this
> talk site, but throughout many of chapter meetings, social events,and many
> other friendly discussions at parties, ETC for years.   Obviously their is
> going to be differences in our ideology!! However, on the lighter side of
> the money situation in which I could place a bet, and win, is the fact 
> that
> I believe all blind individuals, whether they are NFB or ACB would agree
> that the federal mint needs desperately to stop making them damn gold 
> dollar
> coins!!! Now, that is a topic that we all can embrace each other on and I 
> do
> believe that even the presidents of both organizations would hold hands on
> this subject!!  so, see, their is something we can all agree on and work
> together towards!! LOL! Kirk Harmon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 8:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention attendees from Wisconsin?
>
>
>>I already pointed out that a federal judge has decided that making money
>> accessible isn't an undue burden. The Treasury Department had it's day in
>> court and lost. I don't have to prove that accessible money isn't unduly
>> expensive because the ACB already did it in a place where only facts
>> matter,
>> in a court of law. So, please, please, stop telling me I don't have facts
>> on
>> my side. That's just not true.
>>
>> And I've already explained the difference between requiring unaminity and
>> representing all blind people. Even if 99.999% of blind people were in
>> favor
>> of accessible money, it would be ethical for the NFB to oppose it if it
>> had
>> reasons to believe it would not be  in the best interests of blind 
>> people.
>>
>> Now, aren't both of these points already familiar to you? Haven't you 
>> seen
>> me make them before in this discussion? You people aren't listening. You
>> have closed minds.
>>
>>
>> The one point you make that I haven't already addressed is the question,
>> "If
>> we're not going to act on our philosophy, why have it?" Well, I've kind 
>> of
>> already given an implicit answer. Go ahead and run your own life based on
>> your philosophy. More power to you.  You can even try to convince me to
>> buy
>> into it. But don't force it upon me.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention attendees from Wisconsin?
>>
>>
>>> John:
>>>
>>> You ask us to represent all blind people.  Not all blind people agree
>>> on everything, so we can only represent our members.  It is also
>>> unrealistic of you to expect us to not use our philosophy and our
>>> beliefs when formulating positions and strategy.  If we can't use
>>> them, then why have them.
>>>
>>> Finally, you ask us to use "facts" to decide.  You say we don't know
>>> that accessible currency will cost a bunch of money.  But likewise,
>>> you don't know that it won't.  You don't hold yourself to the same
>>> standard that you are asking of us.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 02:49 PM 4/26/2008, you wrote:
>>>>Well, maybe I didn't put that very well. I don't expect the NFB to 
>>>>change
>>>>just because I want it to. My point is that the NFB represents me 
>>>>whether
>>>>I
>>>>like it or not. In my opinion, therefore, it has a responsibility to 
>>>>look
>>>>out for the interests of even non-members and people  not capable of
>>>>joining.
>>>>
>>>>I doubt that the members of this list represent a typical cross section
>>>>of
>>>>blind people in the United States.  My point in talking about myself is
>>>>that
>>>>like most of the people on this list, I'm fairly high functioning. I've
>>>>learned braille, I know how to use a computer. I can find the local
>>>>chapter
>>>>of the NFB and join it.  But even I'm having trouble figuring out how to
>>>>influence the direction of the NFB. And there are an aweful lot of blind
>>>>people who can't do  the things I can do.
>>>>
>>>>Most of the blind people I know don't have computers. They don't get
>>>>newspapers, obviously. A lot of them don't even know how to read 
>>>>braille.
>>>>How are they going to influence the direction the NFB takes? How is the
>>>>NFB
>>>>making sure those people are represented?
>>>>
>>>>It's my opinion that when the NFB blocks DVS and blocks accessible 
>>>>money,
>>>>they're doing those people a disservice.  You may ask, what can we do? 
>>>>We
>>>>can only go by what our members say to do? Well, I already answered 
>>>>that.
>>>>The first thing you can do is stop making policy based on your 
>>>>philosophy
>>>>and your beliefs. Start making policy based on what's best for blind
>>>>people
>>>>and on facts.
>>>>
>>>>For example, instead of trying to block accessible money because of a
>>>>worry
>>>>over a backlash, the NFB could have began an initiative to educate 
>>>>people
>>>>about accessible money. I've been showing my Canadian money around and
>>>>giving them my "what if the bills didn't have any print on them" speech.
>>>>At
>>>>least to my face, everyone has been extremely enthusiastic.
>>>>
>>>>My point is not entirely to suggest that the NFB should start a PR
>>>>campaign.
>>>>My point is that, apparently, that is out of the question.  When faced
>>>>with
>>>>this dilemma of a backlash, the NFB didn't say, "Well, lets change the
>>>>world." They just threw up their hands and said "We don't want to make
>>>>people mad."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 10:36 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention attendees from Wisconsin?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > When you join the NFB  you do so by joining a local chapter, or state
>>>> > affiliate.  Requirements vary from state to state, some you just show
>>>> > up and pay your dues, some vote you in, and some have the two-meeting
>>>> > requirement.  That isn't as common, but it makes sense to me.
>>>> >
>>>> > It is an organization and those who attend and work end up with more
>>>> > power and influence.
>>>> >
>>>> > OK, you are an intelligent guy, and you don't think something is
>>>> > right.  Well, you aren't going to be able to walk in off the street
>>>> > and change it, because you don't think it is right.
>>>> >
>>>> > The organization can be influenced, but it takes time and hard work,
>>>> > not just a sense of being wronged.
>>>> >
>>>> > Dave
>>>> >
>>>> > At 07:28 PM 4/25/2008, you wrote:
>>>> >>Wow, that's kind of harsh. After all, the NFB is making decisions for
>>>> >>all
>>>> >>blind people.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>I dunno... I went blind 7 or 8 years ago more or less. I'm a fairly
>>>> >>intelligent guy, fairly up on current events, etc. I know that Barock
>>>> >>Obama's middle name is Hussein.  I'm with it. But I don't know a damn
>>>> >>thing
>>>> >>about the NFB. I've got stuff to do. You know? Then I found out they
>>>> >>want
>>>> >>to
>>>> >>block accessible money.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>I know I'm dancing on the edge of having to put myself on hiatus 
>>>> >>again
>>>> >>but
>>>> >>this just doesn't seem right to me. I don't think I should have to
>>>> >>work
>>>> >>so
>>>> >>hard at this. I think I have a right to expect the NFB to look out 
>>>> >>for
>>>> >>my
>>>> >>interests and not those of the taxpayers or TV producers.  I mean, if
>>>> >>the
>>>> >>NFB was some fringe group, that would be different. But lets face it,
>>>> >>the
>>>> >>NFB is *the* advocacy group for the blind. The ACB is a weak little
>>>> >>brother.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>I'm sorry if I pissed you off again but this just doesn't sit well
>>>> >>with
>>>> >>me.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>----- Original Message -----
>>>> >>From: "Aaron Cannon" <cannona at fireantproductions.com>
>>>> >>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >>Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 6:50 PM
>>>> >>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention attendees from Wisconsin?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> >> > Hash: RIPEMD160
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Depends on your local chapter.  My chapter, for instance, requires
>>>> >> > that
>>>> >> > you
>>>> >> > attend two consecutive meetings before you can be voted in as a
>>>> >> > member.
>>>> >> > Other chapters do things differently.  If there is not a chapter 
>>>> >> > in
>>>> >> > your
>>>> >> > area, you can also join as a member-at-large.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Aaron
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > - --
>>>> >> > Skype: cannona
>>>> >> > MSN/Windows Messenger: cannona at hotmail.com (don't send email to 
>>>> >> > the
>>>> >> > hotmail
>>>> >> > address.)
>>>> >> > - ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >> > From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>>> >> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> > Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:19 PM
>>>> >> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention attendees from Wisconsin?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >> Well, I wouldn't think becoming a member would be difficult, 
>>>> >> >> would
>>>> >> >> it?
>>>> >> >> Unless you have to pass some kind of test before you can join.
>>>> >> >> Like
>>>> >> >> "Here's
>>>> >> >> some money, identify it's denomination."
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> It's just a joke! :-)
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >> >> From: "Aaron Cannon" <cannona at fireantproductions.com>
>>>> >> >> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> >> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:22 PM
>>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Convention attendees from Wisconsin?
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> >> >>> Hash: RIPEMD160
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> In order to vote, you must not only attend, but must also be a
>>>> >> >>> member
>>>> >> >>> of
>>>> >> >>> the
>>>> >> >>> organization.  At least, that is my understanding.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> Aaron
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> - --
>>>> >> >>> Skype: cannona
>>>> >> >>> MSN/Windows Messenger: cannona at hotmail.com (don't send email to
>>>> >> >>> the
>>>> >> >>> hotmail
>>>> >> >>> address.)
>>>> >> >>> - ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >> >>> From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>>> >> >>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> >>> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:11 PM
>>>> >> >>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Convention attendees from Wisconsin?
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>> Given that there are usually 300+ attendees, I'd guess that
>>>> >> >>>> there
>>>> >> >>>> are a
>>>> >> >>>> lot
>>>> >> >>>> of people from Wisconsin going to the NFB national convention.
>>>> >> >>>> I'm
>>>> >> >>>> thinking
>>>> >> >>>> about going because I guess that's the only way you get to 
>>>> >> >>>> vote,
>>>> >> >>>> right?
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> --
>>>> >> >>>> John Heim
>>>> >> >>>> jheim at math.wisc.edu / 608-263-4189
>>>> >> >>>> "An operator of a vehicle shall stop the vehicle before
>>>> >> >>>> approaching
>>>> >> >>>> closer
>>>> >> >>>> than 10 feet to a pedestrian who is using a service animal"
>>>> >> >>>> -- Wisconsin Statute 2005 Act 354,
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >>>> nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>> >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
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>>>> >> >>>> info
>>>> >> >>>> for
>>>> >> >>>> nfb-talk:
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk/cannona%40fireantproductions.com
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>> >> >>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) - GPGrelay v0.959
>>>> >> >>> Comment: Key available from all major key servers.
>>>> >> >>>
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>>>> >> >>> s84An2RNA73Xh3zPr8gC29aiVbViai0+
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>>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>> >> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) - GPGrelay v0.959
>>>> >> > Comment: Key available from all major key servers.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > iEYEAREDAAYFAkgSbl0ACgkQI7J99hVZuJdlWACeKJBgAR07+emyzhyGYZwr2LUN
>>>> >> > eVgAn1QdNUdET5Mp/q7sCTL7eGCT64ZR
>>>> >> > =69Uu
>>>> >> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> >> > for
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>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>>> >>nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>> >>for nfb-talk:
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>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>--
>>>> >>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> >>Checked by AVG.
>>>> >>Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date:
>>>> >>4/25/2008 2:31 PM
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>Checked by AVG.
>>>>Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release Date:
>>>>4/25/2008 2:31 PM
>>>
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>>
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