[nfb-talk] adult braille readers

dmgina dmgina at qwest.net
Wed Oct 24 22:36:51 CDT 2007


Hi there,
I do grade one and grade two.
I don't know what grade you use, but if I can help you out, just ask ok?
Thanks,

--Dar
www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
Every Saint has a past
Every Sinner has a future

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 6:21 PM
Subject: [nfb-talk] adult braille readers


Okay Hope I understand completely I am in student, but as we all know that 
the people who read braille are the ones who will get jobs which is what I 
had heard at convention. also it is important for all of us to show the 
younger generation how important braille is, I am not saying that we need to 
stop using the great technology we have but we have to go back to the 
basics. and especially for the newly blinded adults like myself it is very 
important to learn the skills that we need.

Cheryl Echevarria
NFB of NY/Long Island Chapter
skype: angeldn38
windows live messenger: 
cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org>
  To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
  Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:51 PM
  Subject: nfb-talk Digest, Vol 17, Issue 46


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  Today's Topics:

     1. Re: Our situation at this time: (Hope Hein)
     2. Re: Adult Braille readers are Leaders Contest (Hope Hein)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  Message: 1
  Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:11:29 -0400
  From: "Hope Hein" <hmhein at verizon.net<mailto:hmhein at verizon.net>>
  Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Our situation at this time:
  To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
  Message-ID: 
<0JQF007QIXRZQIO4 at vms040.mailsrvcs.net<mailto:0JQF007QIXRZQIO4 at vms040.mailsrvcs.net>>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

  That is so sad.
  Hope

  -----Original Message-----
  .From: "dmgina"<dmgina at qwest.net<mailto:dmgina at qwest.net>>
  .Sent: 10/23/07 10:28:59 PM
  .To: "NFB Talk Mailing 
List"<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
  .Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Our situation at this time:
  .
  .I am glad the fires are in control.
  .I am sorry it was arson though.
  .Not good.
  .I know they will figure out who did this kind of damage.
  .
  .--Dar
  .www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
  .Every Saint has a past
  .Every Sinner has a future
  .
  .----- Original Message ----- 
  .From: "Eric Calhoun" <eric at pmpmail.com<mailto:eric at pmpmail.com>>
  .To: <blindkid at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindkid at nfbnet.org>>; 
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org>>; 
<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>;
  .<blparent at nfbnet.org<mailto:blparent at nfbnet.org>>
  .Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:10 PM
  .Subject: [nfb-talk] Our situation at this time:
  .
  .
  .> The situation on the So-Cal fires _at _this _time:
  .>
  .> The fire located near Pepperdine University is _under _control.  There
  .> are currently 15 fires burning, including Castaic, Ventura County, San
  .> Diego, and Orange County.  The Santiago Canyon fire has been declared
  .> _arson.
  .>
  .> I want all of you to talk to your children about fires: what to do in
  .> case of evuacation, making a list of replaceable valuables, making sure
  .> pets are safe, et cetera.
  .>
  .> I would like to thank Lisa from blindkid, and Joe from nfb-talk.  Thank
  .> you for all of your prayers; we still need them.
  .>
  .> Eric
  .> -
  .>
  .> _______________________________________________
  .> nfb-talk mailing list
  .> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
  .> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk>
  .>
  .>
  .>
  .> -- 
  .> No virus found in this incoming message.
  .> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  .> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.6/1086 - Release Date:
  .> 10/22/2007 7:57 PM
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  .
  ._______________________________________________
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  .



  ------------------------------

  Message: 2
  Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:11:25 -0400
  From: "Hope Hein" <hmhein at verizon.net<mailto:hmhein at verizon.net>>
  Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Adult Braille readers are Leaders Contest
  To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
  Message-ID: 
<0JQF007QAXRWQIO4 at vms040.mailsrvcs.net<mailto:0JQF007QAXRWQIO4 at vms040.mailsrvcs.net>>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

  I agree with you about the importance of reading braille.
  However, Electronic devices and computers are very important to people who 
are students and or working in a job.
  I use a notetaker and computer with speech and a braille display.
  Hope

  -----Original Message-----
  .From: "cheryl 
echevarria"<cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>>
  .Sent: 10/24/07 4:48:26 PM
  .To: 
"nfb-talk at nfbnet.org"<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%22%3Cnfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
  .Subject: [nfb-talk] Adult Braille readers are Leaders Contest
  .
  .I think that would be great to have especially give us all incentives to 
read braille and not use the computer or electronic equipment, myself I am 
learning braille since I lost my vision 5 years ago, there should be 
different levels as well for the adult learners and for the experienced 
readers.
  .
  .I would be interested in voting for something like this.
  .
  .Cheryl Echevarria
  .NFB of NY/Long Island Chapter
  .skype: angeldn38
  .windows live messenger: 
cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com%3Cmailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>>
  .  ----- Original Message ----- 
  .  From: 
nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org>>
  .  To: 
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
  .  Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 10:06 AM
  .  Subject: nfb-talk Digest, Vol 17, Issue 43
  .
  .
  .  Send nfb-talk mailing list submissions to
  . 
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  .
  .  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
  .  than "Re: Contents of nfb-talk digest..."
  .
  .
  .  Today's Topics:
  .
  .     1. Re: do we focus too much on national conventions? (Mike Freeman)
  .     2. Adult Braille readers are Leaders Contest (Eric Calhoun)
  .     3. Re: Fw: [Quietcars] urgent problem, distant research
  .        (Wm. Ritchhart)
  .     4. Re: do we focus too much on national conventions? (C Applegate)
  .
  .
  .  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  .
  .  Message: 1
  .  Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:10:37 -0700
  .  From: "Mike Freeman" 
<k7uij at panix.com<mailto:k7uij at panix.com<mailto:k7uij at panix.com%3Cmailto:k7uij at panix.com>>>
  .  Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
  .  To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" 
<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
  .  Message-ID: 
<001b01c815fc$37beeb60$cb5f1418 at owner96190708e<mailto:001b01c815fc$37beeb60$cb5f1418 at owner96190708e<mailto:001b01c815fc$37beeb60$cb5f1418 at owner96190708e%3Cmailto:001b01c815fc$37beeb60$cb5f1418 at owner96190708e>>>
  .  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
  .
  .  Ray:
  .
  .  I don't disagree with your answers below. I suspect, however, that 
Chris
  .  was chafing under the restriction that without attending conventions, 
he
  .  is unable to directly vote on resolutions and other "sense of the
  .  convention" type items. While on the surface, such complaints are
  .  understandable, they fail to take into account the fact that there is 
no
  .  other really practical method of implementing a system to gauge the 
will
  .  of the membership. Plebecites? Not practical. Delegate assemblies?
  .  That's what the rollcall votes at convention are all about.
  .
  .  Moreover, if one were to put in place some sort of extended process for
  .  considering resolutions, the reality is that a small elite, i.e., the
  .  Board of Directors, would have undue influence on such deliberations. 
So
  .  while vesting supreme authority within the Federation to the convention
  .  may leave some folks feeling left out, it is, like Churchill's
  .  definition of democracy, the least worst of the alternatives.
  .
  .  Mike
  .
  .    ----- Original Message ----- 
  .    From: Ray Foret Jr
  .    To: NFB Talk Mailing List
  .    Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:53 PM
  .    Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
  .
  .
  .    Joe, in your message, you say, in part,
  .    "As for communication outside of convention, I think the blame is
  .  mutual.
  .    Until older members learn to embrace the full benefits of technology,
  .  and
  .    until younger members learn not to depend on technology so much, we
  .  will not
  .    fill the middle-age gap that exists at all levels of the movement.
  .  Sound
  .    contradictory?  Think on it."
  .    No, it does not sound contradictory at all; rather, it's perfectly
  .  true.
  .    But, why is it true.  It's true partly because the younger generation
  .  has
  .    grown up spoiled and knowing nothing but the technology; meanwhile,
  .  the
  .    older generation had to learn to do things the manual or harder way.
  .  What
  .    ever will the younger generation do when their batteries die out and
  .  there
  .    aint no chargers?  fair question don't y'all think?
  .
  .        As to attending the conventions, While I feel that Ken's answer
  .  was very
  .    condescending and not helpful at all, let me see what I can do to 
help
  .    answer the question.
  .
  .        As others have said before me, we attend the convention for many
  .    reasons; but, if you want the real bottom line, the convention is the
  .    national policy determiner for the federation.  I do not feel left 
out
  .  just
  .    because I never have enough money to attend one; though.  I, for one,
  .    believe members do in fact have a voice even if they can't attend
  .    convention.  It's called letter writing, phone calling or e-mailing.
  .    Sometimes, we are asked to use that voice; witness our rescue of the
  .  talking
  .    book program earlier this year (which I believe we are still not 
quite
  .    through rescuing just yet and may be called upon yet again to help).
  .    Indeed, It is precisely because the NFB knows and believes in the
  .  voices of
  .    its blind members, (even the ones who cannot attend convention) that
  .  it is
  .    so strong.  From time to time, it asks us to use that voice loud and
  .  clear;
  .    as it may well do regarding the quiet car topic.  How, therefore, can
  .  anyone
  .    assert that we ordinary financially poor blind have no voice because
  .  we
  .    cannot physically attend the convention?  I ask, not to be sarcastic;
  .  but
  .    rather, to try to stimulate your thinking.  As for help for the deaf,
  .  the
  .    NFB does indeed provide hearing aid and now even Spanish translation
  .  for
  .    those who need it.  Another individual complained he cannot cross
  .  streets
  .    because of his inability to determine perpendicular traffic from
  .  parallel
  .    traffic.  Let him get help if he needs it.  Perhaps it's a good time
  .  to say
  .    this.  The NFB IS, NOT, opposed to blind people getting help if it is
  .    needed.  Many in the ACB believe and say that the NFB is opposed to
  .  blind
  .    people getting any kind of help at all.  They refer to us as "super
  .  blinks"
  .    and so forth.  Well, for that matter, they refer to any truly
  .  independent
  .    blind person as a "super blink" what a slap in the face that is; both
  .  to
  .    then and to us.
  .    As for shortening the national convention, I fail to see how this can
  .  ever
  .    be done.  Sooner or later, we'll just have to face the reality that
  .    convention lasts for two weeks now and officially make it so.  Then,
  .  we
  .    might be able to offer special discounts to those able to attend both
  .  weeks
  .    of the convention.  Slightly lesser discounts to those attending only
  .  the
  .    first week, (the board meetings and such) or the second week, (the
  .  policy
  .    and decisions week).  Thoughts?
  .
  .    Sincerely yours,
  .    The Constantly Barefooted,
  .    Ray
  .    Home phone and fax:
  .    (985)853-0139
  .    E-mail:
  .    rforetjratbellsouthdotnet
  .    Skype Name:
  .    barefootedray
  .    Blog:
  . 
www.raysworld.blogs.com<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com/<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com%3chttp//www.raysworld.blogs.com/>>
  .    Podcast .rss Feed:
  . 
http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray<http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray<http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray%3Chttp://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray>>
  .
  .    God bless President George W. Bush!
  .    God bless our troops!
  .    and God bless America
  .
  .    ----- Original Message ----- 
  .    From: "Joe Orozco" 
<jsorozco at gmail.com<mailto:jsorozco at gmail.com<mailto:jsorozco at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jsorozco at gmail.com>>>
  .    To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" 
<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
  .    Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:25 PM
  .    Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
  .
  .
  .    Chris,
  .
  .    Normally I hate the parallel people draw between blindness consumer
  .  groups
  .    and political parties.  Yet when it comes to conventions I believe 
the
  .    comparison is a valid one.  On a business level the NFB can use the
  .    opportunity to sell its products and services while advancing its
  .    philosophical and legislative agenda, all of this while 
simultaneously
  .    generating the most fundraising than at any other point in the year.
  .  On a
  .    recruitment level the organization can reach out through its
  .  divisions,
  .    committees and social gatherings to lock in and hold on to newcomers
  .  in
  .    hopes that they might return home and encourage others to jump in.
  .  Where
  .    the parallel falls short is when you consider the personal level.
  .  Some
  .    people really are turned around by a national convention.  Some 
people
  .    really do use convention as their personal vacation.  Still others 
may
  .  only
  .    truly venture out of their comfort zone by attending a convention, 
and
  .  for
  .    that reason alone national conventions can be our single most
  .  important
  .    feature.  At times I think the best service we can do for a person 
who
  .  has
  .    never really known independence is to put them in an environment of
  .  swinging
  .    canes, passing dogs and total chaos at the elevators to really let
  .  them see
  .    how independent they could be.
  .
  .    As for communication outside of convention, I think the blame is
  .  mutual.
  .    Until older members learn to embrace the full benefits of technology,
  .  and
  .    until younger members learn not to depend on technology so much, we
  .  will not
  .    fill the middle-age gap that exists at all levels of the movement.
  .  Sound
  .    contradictory?  Think on it.
  .
  .    Joe Orozco
  .
  .    "I came, I saw, I conquered."--Julius Caesar
  .    ----- Original Message ----- 
  .    From: "Chris Westbrook" 
<westbc at clw19.com<mailto:westbc at clw19.com<mailto:westbc at clw19.com%3Cmailto:westbc at clw19.com>>>
  .    To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" 
<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
  .    Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:09 PM
  .    Subject: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
  .
  .
  .    I read a lot of literature in the NFB about how conventions change
  .  people's
  .    lives, and I'm sure to some extent that is true, but I wonder if we
  .  focus
  .    too much on the convention as a policy setter for the organization?
  .  I'm
  .    sure there are lots of people who cannot for whatever reason make the
  .    national convention who would like to contribute their opinions on
  .  current
  .    and/or future policy, practices, etc.  I was not able to attend this
  .  year
  .    because I only got one week of vacation for my job, and I don't see
  .  myself
  .    attending anytime soon since the summer is a busy time for our
  .  company.  I
  .    worry that the NFB is ruling out contributions from highly 
intelligent
  .  blind
  .    people who simply have other commitments during that time period.  I
  .  think
  .    we also must remember that convention isn't a fun experience for
  .  everyone.
  .    I went with my mother a few years ago, and if I had gone alone I
  .  honestly
  .    think convention would have been hell for me.  The huge dinner crowds
  .  meant
  .    I couldn't eat in the hotel because with my hearing loss the noise 
was
  .  just
  .    too overwhelming.  If I had to worry about finding a restaurant
  .  outside the
  .    hotel (I can't cross streets independently due to my inability to
  .    distinguish parallel from perpendicular traffic) and worry about the
  .  cost of
  .    eating out every night that would have definitely put a damper on my
  .    convention experience.  One thing I like that ACB does is provide
  .  support
  .    personnel for people who have hearing impairments in addition to
  .  blindness
  .    to help with situations like that, but that's a topic for a whole
  .  other
  .    message.  The exhibit hall was also overwhelming.  The various
  .  speeches were
  .    nice, but were they worth traveling all across the country for?  I
  .  suppose
  .    it depends on your perspective.  I'm not advocating for the
  .  elimination of a
  .    national convention, though I think this will become a greater issue
  .  as
  .    prices for hotels and other things keep going up, but I'm just 
curious
  .  how a
  .    person who can't or won't go to convention gets involved?  There is 
no
  .    chapter in my area, so perhaps my view of NFB is a bit warped by this
  .  fact.
  .    and yes I realize that a large part of being a federationist is just
  .  getting
  .    out into the community, etc., which I'm doing, but that still doesn't
  .  really
  .    change what I said above.  I'm interested in your thoughts.
  .
  .
  .    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  .
  .
  .    > _______________________________________________
  .    > nfb-talk mailing list
  .    > 
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
  .    > 
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  .    >
  .
  .    _______________________________________________
  .    nfb-talk mailing list
  . 
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  . 
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  .
  .    _______________________________________________
  .    nfb-talk mailing list
  . 
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
  . 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk>>
  .  -------------- next part --------------
  .  Ray:
  .  ?
  .  I don't disagree with your answers below. I suspect, however, that 
Chris was chafing under the restriction that without attending conventions, 
he is unable to directly vote on resolutions and other "sense of the 
convention" type items. While on the surface, such complaints are 
understandable, they fail to take into account the fact that there is no 
other really practical method of implementing a system to gauge the will of 
the membership. Plebecites? Not practical. Delegate assemblies? That's what 
the rollcall votes at convention are all about.
  .  ?
  .  Moreover, if one were to put in place some sort of extended process for 
considering resolutions, the reality is that a small elite, i.e., the Board 
of Directors, would have undue influence on such deliberations. So while 
vesting supreme authority within the Federation to the convention may leave 
some folks feeling left out, it is, like Churchill's definition of 
democracy, the least worst of the alternatives.
  .  ?
  .  Mike
  .  ?
  .  ----- Original Message -----
  .  From:
  . 
mailto:rforetjr at bellsouth.net<mailto:rforetjr at bellsouth.net<mailto:rforetjr at bellsouth.net%3Cmailto:rforetjr at bellsouth.net>> 
Ray Foret Jr
  .  To:
  . 
mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>> 
NFB Talk Mailing List
  .  Sent:
  .  Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:53 PM
  .  Subject:
  .  Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
  .  Joe, in your message, you say, in part,
  .  "As for communication outside of convention, I think the blame is 
mutual.
  .  Until older members learn to embrace the full benefits of technology, 
and
  .  until younger members learn not to depend on technology so much, we 
will not
  .  fill the middle-age gap that exists at all levels of the movement.? 
Sound
  .  contradictory?? Think on it."
  .  No, it does not sound contradictory at all; rather, it's perfectly 
true.
  .  But, why is it true.? It's true partly because the younger generation 
has
  .  grown up spoiled and knowing nothing but the technology; meanwhile, the
  .  older generation had to learn to do things the manual or harder way.? 
What
  .  ever will the younger generation do when their batteries die out and 
there
  .  aint no chargers?? fair question don't y'all think?
  .  ??? As to attending the conventions, While I feel that Ken's answer was 
very
  .  condescending and not helpful at all, let me see what I can do to help
  .  answer the question.
  .  ??? As others have said before me, we attend the convention for many
  .  reasons; but, if you want the real bottom line, the convention is the
  .  national policy determiner for the federation.? I do not feel left out 
just
  .  because I never have enough money to attend one; though.? I, for one,
  .  believe members do in fact have a voice even if they can't attend
  .  convention.? It's called letter writing, phone calling or e-mailing.
  .  Sometimes, we are asked to use that voice; witness our rescue of the 
talking
  .  book program earlier this year (which I believe we are still not quite
  .  through rescuing just yet and may be called upon yet again to help).
  .  Indeed, It is precisely because the NFB knows and believes in the 
voices of
  .  its blind members, (even the ones who cannot attend convention) that it 
is
  .  so strong.? From time to time, it asks us to use that voice loud and 
clear;
  .  as it may well do regarding the quiet car topic.? How, therefore, can 
anyone
  .  assert that we ordinary financially poor blind have no voice because we
  .  cannot physically attend the convention?? I ask, not to be sarcastic; 
but
  .  rather, to try to stimulate your thinking.? As for help for the deaf, 
the
  .  NFB does indeed provide hearing aid and now even Spanish translation 
for
  .  those who need it.? Another individual complained he cannot cross 
streets
  .  because of his inability to determine perpendicular traffic from 
parallel
  .  traffic.? Let him get help if he needs it.? Perhaps it's a good time to 
say
  .  this.? The NFB IS, NOT, opposed to blind people getting help if it is
  .  needed.? Many in the ACB believe and say that the NFB is opposed to 
blind
  .  people getting any kind of help at all.? They refer to us as "super 
blinks"
  .  and so forth.? Well, for that matter, they refer to any truly 
independent
  .  blind person as a "super blink" what a slap in the face that is; both 
to
  .  then and to us.
  .  As for shortening the national convention, I fail to see how this can 
ever
  .  be done.? Sooner or later, we'll just have to face the reality that
  .  convention lasts for two weeks now and officially make it so.? Then, we
  .  might be able to offer special discounts to those able to attend both 
weeks
  .  of the convention.? Slightly lesser discounts to those attending only 
the
  .  first week, (the board meetings and such) or the second week, (the 
policy
  .  and decisions week).? Thoughts?
  .  Sincerely yours,
  .  The Constantly Barefooted,
  .  Ray
  .  Home phone and fax:
  .  (985)853-0139
  .  E-mail:
  .  rforetjratbellsouthdotnet
  .  Skype Name:
  .  barefootedray
  .  Blog:
  . 
http://www.raysworld.blogs.com<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com/<http://wwwraysworld.blogs.com%3chttp//www.raysworld.blogs.com/>> 
www.raysworld.blogs.com<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com/<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com%3chttp//www.raysworld.blogs.com/>>
  .  Podcast .rss Feed:
  . 
http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray<http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray<http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray%3Chttp://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray>> 
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  .  God bless President George W. Bush!
  .  God bless our troops!
  .  and God bless America
  .  ----- Original Message -----
  .  From: "Joe Orozco" < 
mailto:jsorozco at gmail.com<mailto:jsorozco at gmail.com<mailto:jsorozco at gmailcom%3Cmailto:jsorozco at gmail.com>> 
jsorozco at gmail.com<mailto:jsorozco at gmail.com<mailto:jsorozco at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jsorozco at gmail.com>>
  .  >
  .  To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" < 
mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>> 
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
  .  >
  .  Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:25 PM
  .  Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
  .  Chris,
  .  Normally I hate the parallel people draw between blindness consumer 
groups
  .  and political parties.? Yet when it comes to conventions I believe the
  .  comparison is a valid one.? On a business level the NFB can use the
  .  opportunity to sell its products and services while advancing its
  .  philosophical and legislative agenda, all of this while simultaneously
  .  generating the most fundraising than at any other point in the year.? 
On a
  .  recruitment level the organization can reach out through its divisions,
  .  committees and social gatherings to lock in and hold on to newcomers in
  .  hopes that they might return home and encourage others to jump in.? 
Where
  .  the parallel falls short is when you consider the personal level.? Some
  .  people really are turned around by a national convention.? Some people
  .  really do use convention as their personal vacation.? Still others may 
only
  .  truly venture out of their comfort zone by attending a convention, and 
for
  .  that reason alone national conventions can be our single most important
  .  feature.? At times I think the best service we can do for a person who 
has
  .  never really known independence is to put them in an environment of 
swinging
  .  canes, passing dogs and total chaos at the elevators to really let them 
see
  .  how independent they could be.
  .  As for communication outside of convention, I think the blame is 
mutual.
  .  Until older members learn to embrace the full benefits of technology, 
and
  .  until younger members learn not to depend on technology so much, we 
will not
  .  fill the middle-age gap that exists at all levels of the movement.? 
Sound
  .  contradictory?? Think on it.
  .  Joe Orozco
  .  "I came, I saw, I conquered."--Julius Caesar
  .  ----- Original Message -----
  .  From: "Chris Westbrook" < 
mailto:westbc at clw19.com<mailto:westbc at clw19.com<mailto:westbc at clw19.com%3Cmailto:westbc at clw19.com>> 
westbc at clw19.com<mailto:westbc at clw19.com<mailto:westbc at clw19.com%3Cmailto:westbc at clw19.com>>
  .  >
  .  To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" < 
mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>> 
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
  .  >
  .  Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:09 PM
  .  Subject: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
  .  I read a lot of literature in the NFB about how conventions change 
people's
  .  lives, and I'm sure to some extent that is true, but I wonder if we 
focus
  .  too much on the convention as a policy setter for the organization?? 
I'm
  .  sure there are lots of people who cannot for whatever reason make the
  .  national convention who would like to contribute their opinions on 
current
  .  and/or future policy, practices, etc.? I was not able to attend this 
year
  .  because I only got one week of vacation for my job, and I don't see 
myself
  .  attending anytime soon since the summer is a busy time for our 
company.? I
  .  worry that the NFB is ruling out contributions from highly intelligent 
blind
  .  people who simply have other commitments during that time period.? I 
think
  .  we also must remember that convention isn't a fun experience for 
everyone.
  .  I went with my mother a few years ago, and if I had gone alone I 
honestly
  .  think convention would have been hell for me.? The huge dinner crowds 
meant
  .  I couldn't eat in the hotel because with my hearing loss the noise was 
just
  .  too overwhelming.? If I had to worry about finding a restaurant outside 
the
  .  hotel (I can't cross streets independently due to my inability to
  .  distinguish parallel from perpendicular traffic) and worry about the 
cost of
  .  eating out every night that would have definitely put a damper on my
  .  convention experience.? One thing I like that ACB does is provide 
support
  .  personnel for people who have hearing impairments in addition to 
blindness
  .  to help with situations like that, but that's a topic for a whole other
  .  message.? The exhibit hall was also overwhelming.? The various speeches 
were
  .  nice, but were they worth traveling all across the country for?? I 
suppose
  .  it depends on your perspective.? I'm not advocating for the elimination 
of a
  .  national convention, though I think this will become a greater issue as
  .  prices for hotels and other things keep going up, but I'm just curious 
how a
  .  person who can't or won't go to convention gets involved?? There is no
  .  chapter in my area, so perhaps my view of NFB is a bit warped by this 
fact.
  .  and yes I realize that a large part of being a federationist is just 
getting
  .  out into the community, etc., which I'm doing, but that still doesn't 
really
  .  change what I said above.? I'm interested in your thoughts.
  .  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  .  > _______________________________________________
  .  > nfb-talk mailing list
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  .  >
  .  _______________________________________________
  .  nfb-talk mailing list
  . 
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  . 
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  .  _______________________________________________
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  . 
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  .
  .  ------------------------------
  .
  .  Message: 2
  .  Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 02:35:13 -0400 (EDT)
  .  From: Eric Calhoun 
<eric at pmpmail.com<mailto:eric at pmpmail.com<mailto:eric at pmpmail.com%3Cmailto:eric at pmpmail.com>>>
  .  Subject: [nfb-talk] Adult Braille readers are Leaders Contest
  .  To: 
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
  .  Message-ID: 
<20071024063513.0AC5F5F2C2 at node21.smtp.com<mailto:20071024063513.0AC5F5F2C2 at node21.smtp.com<mailto:20071024063513.0AC5F5F2C2 at node21.smtp.com%3Cmailto:20071024063513.0AC5F5F2C2 at node21.smtp.com>>>
  .
  .  I'd like to address a couple of people in this message, if you please:
  .
  .  Chris, you have a valid point, when you associate national Conventions
  .  with crowd noise' and for crossing streets with parallel, versus
  .  perpendicular traffic.  However, I have a couple of suggestions.
  .
  .  Number 1.  _If you _know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, you have 
problems
  .  crossing streets using (green,) parallel, and (red), perpendicular, 
make
  .  certain you find someone who can help you, and _stay _there, until 
someone
  .  can help you.  This may take a few minutes.
  .
  .  Number 2.  Use parratransit.  That means: get with your local company
  .  that has parratransit, and tell them what you're doing; and ask them to
  .  _fax) your application, for a 21-day pass.  While at the Convention,
  .  utilize their services. (Don't wait till the same day to go out; you 
may
  .  not get a ride.  Also, plan ahead.)
  .
  .  Ray:
  .
  .  I agree with you.  Federationists, who cannot afford to go to the
  .  National Convention have as just as much of a voice, as those who can
  .  attend.  All one must do is get an idea by e-mailing their State 
President,
  .  and the nfb Board.
  .
  .  The younger generation of the Federation should not have to attend
  .  National Conventions, via scholarship; give them other incentives. 
Here in
  .  California, (and I feel it's unpopular with a few people), it was 
decided
  .  that if people read one or more Kernel Books, and reported upon what
  .  they've read at the next meeting, that person may win a free trip to 
the
  .  next National Convention.  I have a better idea: If all of us e-mail 
the
  .  National Office to start an adult "Braille Readers Are Leaders" similar 
to
  .  the children's, or juvenile, contest, and everybody agrees to this 
contest,
  .  the person(s) who reads the highest number of pages should win a free 
trip
  .  to the next National Convention.  Thoughts please?
  .
  .  Eric
  .  -
  .
  .
  .
  .  ------------------------------
  .
  .  Message: 3
  .  Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 06:02:09 -0400
  .  From: "Wm. Ritchhart" 
<william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net<mailto:william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net<mailto:william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net%3Cmailto:william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>>>
  .  Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: [Quietcars] urgent problem, distant
  .  research
  .  To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" 
<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
  .  Message-ID: 
<000001c81624$f10b6a30$4001a8c0 at RITCHHART<mailto:000001c81624$f10b6a30$4001a8c0 at RITCHHART<mailto:000001c81624$f10b6a30$4001a8c0 at RITCHHART%3Cmailto:000001c81624$f10b6a30$4001a8c0 at RITCHHART>>>
  .  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
  .
  .  I believe, that actually the first person hit and killed by a quiet car
  .  was a sighted person who was hit by a driver who was multi-tasking.
  .  This is a serious problem for all pedestrians, not just blind.
  .
  .
  .  William
  .
  .
  .  -----Original Message-----
  .  From: 
nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org>> 
[mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
  .  On Behalf Of RyanO
  .  Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:09 AM
  .  To: NFB Talk Mailing List
  .  Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: [Quietcars] urgent problem, distant 
research
  .
  .  I wasn't making a point. I was merely asking a reasonable question. If
  .  we're
  .  going to maintain this debate, some hard numbers wouldn't hurt.
  .
  .
  .  RyanO
  .
  .  _______________________________________________
  .  nfb-talk mailing list
  . 
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
  . 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk>>
  .
  .
  .
  .  ------------------------------
  .
  .  Message: 4
  .  Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:23:32 -0500
  .  From: "C Applegate" 
<marshapple at austin.rr.com<mailto:marshapple at austin.rr.com<mailto:marshapple at austin.rr.com%3Cmailto:marshapple at austin.rr.com>>>
  .  Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
  .  To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" 
<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
  .  Message-ID: 
<007901c81649$74c43ae0$0202a8c0 at 2UB532098T<mailto:007901c81649$74c43ae0$0202a8c0 at 2UB532098T<mailto:007901c81649$74c43ae0$0202a8c0 at 2UB532098T%3Cmailto:007901c81649$74c43ae0$0202a8c0 at 2UB532098T>>>
  .  Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
  .  reply-type=original
  .
  .  I think that the convention is an indispensable part of our movement. 
There
  .  is however one area that I think could help out with the length of it 
and
  .  allow more people to have a say in the movement.
  .  That is to move the resolutions debate to one of the first days.  It 
seems
  .  to me that by the time we get to them a large majority of the people 
have
  .  left.  Thus leaving the decision making to a few.  There may be reasons 
for
  .  its current time slot in the convention, but I can not see the benefit 
of
  .  leaving it to the last.  If this question has been hashed out before, 
then
  .  someone give me the condensed version please.
  .
  .  Clint
  .  ----- Original Message ----- 
  .  From: "Mike Freeman" 
<k7uij at panix.com<mailto:k7uij at panix.com<mailto:k7uij at panix.com%3Cmailto:k7uij at panix.com>>>
  .  To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" 
<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
  .  Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:10 AM
  .  Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
  .
  .
  .  > Ray:
  .  >
  .  > I don't disagree with your answers below. I suspect, however, that 
Chris
  .  > was chafing under the restriction that without attending conventions, 
he
  .  > is unable to directly vote on resolutions and other "sense of the
  .  > convention" type items. While on the surface, such complaints are
  .  > understandable, they fail to take into account the fact that there is 
no
  .  > other really practical method of implementing a system to gauge the 
will
  .  > of the membership. Plebecites? Not practical. Delegate assemblies?
  .  > That's what the rollcall votes at convention are all about.
  .  >
  .  > Moreover, if one were to put in place some sort of extended process 
for
  .  > considering resolutions, the reality is that a small elite, i.e., the
  .  > Board of Directors, would have undue influence on such deliberations. 
So
  .  > while vesting supreme authority within the Federation to the 
convention
  .  > may leave some folks feeling left out, it is, like Churchill's
  .  > definition of democracy, the least worst of the alternatives.
  .  >
  .  > Mike
  .  >
  .  >  ----- Original Message ----- 
  .  >  From: Ray Foret Jr
  .  >  To: NFB Talk Mailing List
  .  >  Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:53 PM
  .  >  Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national 
conventions?
  .  >
  .  >
  .  >  Joe, in your message, you say, in part,
  .  >  "As for communication outside of convention, I think the blame is
  .  > mutual.
  .  >  Until older members learn to embrace the full benefits of 
technology,
  .  > and
  .  >  until younger members learn not to depend on technology so much, we
  .  > will not
  .  >  fill the middle-age gap that exists at all levels of the movement.
  .  > Sound
  .  >  contradictory?  Think on it."
  .  >  No, it does not sound contradictory at all; rather, it's perfectly
  .  > true.
  .  >  But, why is it true.  It's true partly because the younger 
generation
  .  > has
  .  >  grown up spoiled and knowing nothing but the technology; meanwhile,
  .  > the
  .  >  older generation had to learn to do things the manual or harder way.
  .  > What
  .  >  ever will the younger generation do when their batteries die out and
  .  > there
  .  >  aint no chargers?  fair question don't y'all think?
  .  >
  .  >      As to attending the conventions, While I feel that Ken's answer
  .  > was very
  .  >  condescending and not helpful at all, let me see what I can do to 
help
  .  >  answer the question.
  .  >
  .  >      As others have said before me, we attend the convention for many
  .  >  reasons; but, if you want the real bottom line, the convention is 
the
  .  >  national policy determiner for the federation.  I do not feel left 
out
  .  > just
  .  >  because I never have enough money to attend one; though.  I, for 
one,
  .  >  believe members do in fact have a voice even if they can't attend
  .  >  convention.  It's called letter writing, phone calling or e-mailing.
  .  >  Sometimes, we are asked to use that voice; witness our rescue of the
  .  > talking
  .  >  book program earlier this year (which I believe we are still not 
quite
  .  >  through rescuing just yet and may be called upon yet again to help).
  .  >  Indeed, It is precisely because the NFB knows and believes in the
  .  > voices of
  .  >  its blind members, (even the ones who cannot attend convention) that
  .  > it is
  .  >  so strong.  From time to time, it asks us to use that voice loud and
  .  > clear;
  .  >  as it may well do regarding the quiet car topic.  How, therefore, 
can
  .  > anyone
  .  >  assert that we ordinary financially poor blind have no voice because
  .  > we
  .  >  cannot physically attend the convention?  I ask, not to be 
sarcastic;
  .  > but
  .  >  rather, to try to stimulate your thinking.  As for help for the 
deaf,
  .  > the
  .  >  NFB does indeed provide hearing aid and now even Spanish translation
  .  > for
  .  >  those who need it.  Another individual complained he cannot cross
  .  > streets
  .  >  because of his inability to determine perpendicular traffic from
  .  > parallel
  .  >  traffic.  Let him get help if he needs it.  Perhaps it's a good time
  .  > to say
  .  >  this.  The NFB IS, NOT, opposed to blind people getting help if it 
is
  .  >  needed.  Many in the ACB believe and say that the NFB is opposed to
  .  > blind
  .  >  people getting any kind of help at all.  They refer to us as "super
  .  > blinks"
  .  >  and so forth.  Well, for that matter, they refer to any truly
  .  > independent
  .  >  blind person as a "super blink" what a slap in the face that is; 
both
  .  > to
  .  >  then and to us.
  .  >  As for shortening the national convention, I fail to see how this 
can
  .  > ever
  .  >  be done.  Sooner or later, we'll just have to face the reality that
  .  >  convention lasts for two weeks now and officially make it so.  Then,
  .  > we
  .  >  might be able to offer special discounts to those able to attend 
both
  .  > weeks
  .  >  of the convention.  Slightly lesser discounts to those attending 
only
  .  > the
  .  >  first week, (the board meetings and such) or the second week, (the
  .  > policy
  .  >  and decisions week).  Thoughts?
  .  >
  .  >  Sincerely yours,
  .  >  The Constantly Barefooted,
  .  >  Ray
  .  >  Home phone and fax:
  .  >  (985)853-0139
  .  >  E-mail:
  .  >  rforetjratbellsouthdotnet
  .  >  Skype Name:
  .  >  barefootedray
  .  >  Blog:
  .  > 
www.raysworld.blogs.com<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com/<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com%3chttp//www.raysworld.blogs.com/>>
  .  >  Podcast .rss Feed:
  .  > 
http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray<http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray<http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray%3Chttp://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray>>
  .  >
  .  >  God bless President George W. Bush!
  .  >  God bless our troops!
  .  >  and God bless America
  .  >
  .  >  ----- Original Message ----- 
  .  >  From: "Joe Orozco" 
<jsorozco at gmail.com<mailto:jsorozco at gmail.com<mailto:jsorozco at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jsorozco at gmail.com>>>
  .  >  To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" 
<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
  .  >  Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:25 PM
  .  >  Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national 
conventions?
  .  >
  .  >
  .  >  Chris,
  .  >
  .  >  Normally I hate the parallel people draw between blindness consumer
  .  > groups
  .  >  and political parties.  Yet when it comes to conventions I believe 
the
  .  >  comparison is a valid one.  On a business level the NFB can use the
  .  >  opportunity to sell its products and services while advancing its
  .  >  philosophical and legislative agenda, all of this while 
simultaneously
  .  >  generating the most fundraising than at any other point in the year.
  .  > On a
  .  >  recruitment level the organization can reach out through its
  .  > divisions,
  .  >  committees and social gatherings to lock in and hold on to newcomers
  .  > in
  .  >  hopes that they might return home and encourage others to jump in.
  .  > Where
  .  >  the parallel falls short is when you consider the personal level.
  .  > Some
  .  >  people really are turned around by a national convention.  Some 
people
  .  >  really do use convention as their personal vacation.  Still others 
may
  .  > only
  .  >  truly venture out of their comfort zone by attending a convention, 
and
  .  > for
  .  >  that reason alone national conventions can be our single most
  .  > important
  .  >  feature.  At times I think the best service we can do for a person 
who
  .  > has
  .  >  never really known independence is to put them in an environment of
  .  > swinging
  .  >  canes, passing dogs and total chaos at the elevators to really let
  .  > them see
  .  >  how independent they could be.
  .  >
  .  >  As for communication outside of convention, I think the blame is
  .  > mutual.
  .  >  Until older members learn to embrace the full benefits of 
technology,
  .  > and
  .  >  until younger members learn not to depend on technology so much, we
  .  > will not
  .  >  fill the middle-age gap that exists at all levels of the movement.
  .  > Sound
  .  >  contradictory?  Think on it.
  .  >
  .  >  Joe Orozco
  .  >
  .  >  "I came, I saw, I conquered."--Julius Caesar
  .  >  ----- Original Message ----- 
  .  >  From: "Chris Westbrook" 
<westbc at clw19.com<mailto:westbc at clw19.com<mailto:westbc at clw19.com%3Cmailto:westbc at clw19.com>>>
  .  >  To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" 
<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
  .  >  Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:09 PM
  .  >  Subject: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
  .  >
  .  >
  .  >  I read a lot of literature in the NFB about how conventions change
  .  > people's
  .  >  lives, and I'm sure to some extent that is true, but I wonder if we
  .  > focus
  .  >  too much on the convention as a policy setter for the organization?
  .  > I'm
  .  >  sure there are lots of people who cannot for whatever reason make 
the
  .  >  national convention who would like to contribute their opinions on
  .  > current
  .  >  and/or future policy, practices, etc.  I was not able to attend this
  .  > year
  .  >  because I only got one week of vacation for my job, and I don't see
  .  > myself
  .  >  attending anytime soon since the summer is a busy time for our
  .  > company.  I
  .  >  worry that the NFB is ruling out contributions from highly 
intelligent
  .  > blind
  .  >  people who simply have other commitments during that time period.  I
  .  > think
  .  >  we also must remember that convention isn't a fun experience for
  .  > everyone.
  .  >  I went with my mother a few years ago, and if I had gone alone I
  .  > honestly
  .  >  think convention would have been hell for me.  The huge dinner 
crowds
  .  > meant
  .  >  I couldn't eat in the hotel because with my hearing loss the noise 
was
  .  > just
  .  >  too overwhelming.  If I had to worry about finding a restaurant
  .  > outside the
  .  >  hotel (I can't cross streets independently due to my inability to
  .  >  distinguish parallel from perpendicular traffic) and worry about the
  .  > cost of
  .  >  eating out every night that would have definitely put a damper on my
  .  >  convention experience.  One thing I like that ACB does is provide
  .  > support
  .  >  personnel for people who have hearing impairments in addition to
  .  > blindness
  .  >  to help with situations like that, but that's a topic for a whole
  .  > other
  .  >  message.  The exhibit hall was also overwhelming.  The various
  .  > speeches were
  .  >  nice, but were they worth traveling all across the country for?  I
  .  > suppose
  .  >  it depends on your perspective.  I'm not advocating for the
  .  > elimination of a
  .  >  national convention, though I think this will become a greater issue
  .  > as
  .  >  prices for hotels and other things keep going up, but I'm just 
curious
  .  > how a
  .  >  person who can't or won't go to convention gets involved?  There is 
no
  .  >  chapter in my area, so perhaps my view of NFB is a bit warped by 
this
  .  > fact.
  .  >  and yes I realize that a large part of being a federationist is just
  .  > getting
  .  >  out into the community, etc., which I'm doing, but that still 
doesn't
  .  > really
  .  >  change what I said above.  I'm interested in your thoughts.
  .  >
  .  >
  . 
 >  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  .  >
  .  >
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  .  >  > 
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  .  >  > 
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  .  End of nfb-talk Digest, Vol 17, Issue 43
  .  ****************************************
  .



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