[nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
Mike Freeman
k7uij at panix.com
Wed Oct 24 00:10:37 CDT 2007
Ray:
I don't disagree with your answers below. I suspect, however, that Chris
was chafing under the restriction that without attending conventions, he
is unable to directly vote on resolutions and other "sense of the
convention" type items. While on the surface, such complaints are
understandable, they fail to take into account the fact that there is no
other really practical method of implementing a system to gauge the will
of the membership. Plebecites? Not practical. Delegate assemblies?
That's what the rollcall votes at convention are all about.
Moreover, if one were to put in place some sort of extended process for
considering resolutions, the reality is that a small elite, i.e., the
Board of Directors, would have undue influence on such deliberations. So
while vesting supreme authority within the Federation to the convention
may leave some folks feeling left out, it is, like Churchill's
definition of democracy, the least worst of the alternatives.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Foret Jr
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
Joe, in your message, you say, in part,
"As for communication outside of convention, I think the blame is
mutual.
Until older members learn to embrace the full benefits of technology,
and
until younger members learn not to depend on technology so much, we
will not
fill the middle-age gap that exists at all levels of the movement.
Sound
contradictory? Think on it."
No, it does not sound contradictory at all; rather, it's perfectly
true.
But, why is it true. It's true partly because the younger generation
has
grown up spoiled and knowing nothing but the technology; meanwhile,
the
older generation had to learn to do things the manual or harder way.
What
ever will the younger generation do when their batteries die out and
there
aint no chargers? fair question don't y'all think?
As to attending the conventions, While I feel that Ken's answer
was very
condescending and not helpful at all, let me see what I can do to help
answer the question.
As others have said before me, we attend the convention for many
reasons; but, if you want the real bottom line, the convention is the
national policy determiner for the federation. I do not feel left out
just
because I never have enough money to attend one; though. I, for one,
believe members do in fact have a voice even if they can't attend
convention. It's called letter writing, phone calling or e-mailing.
Sometimes, we are asked to use that voice; witness our rescue of the
talking
book program earlier this year (which I believe we are still not quite
through rescuing just yet and may be called upon yet again to help).
Indeed, It is precisely because the NFB knows and believes in the
voices of
its blind members, (even the ones who cannot attend convention) that
it is
so strong. From time to time, it asks us to use that voice loud and
clear;
as it may well do regarding the quiet car topic. How, therefore, can
anyone
assert that we ordinary financially poor blind have no voice because
we
cannot physically attend the convention? I ask, not to be sarcastic;
but
rather, to try to stimulate your thinking. As for help for the deaf,
the
NFB does indeed provide hearing aid and now even Spanish translation
for
those who need it. Another individual complained he cannot cross
streets
because of his inability to determine perpendicular traffic from
parallel
traffic. Let him get help if he needs it. Perhaps it's a good time
to say
this. The NFB IS, NOT, opposed to blind people getting help if it is
needed. Many in the ACB believe and say that the NFB is opposed to
blind
people getting any kind of help at all. They refer to us as "super
blinks"
and so forth. Well, for that matter, they refer to any truly
independent
blind person as a "super blink" what a slap in the face that is; both
to
then and to us.
As for shortening the national convention, I fail to see how this can
ever
be done. Sooner or later, we'll just have to face the reality that
convention lasts for two weeks now and officially make it so. Then,
we
might be able to offer special discounts to those able to attend both
weeks
of the convention. Slightly lesser discounts to those attending only
the
first week, (the board meetings and such) or the second week, (the
policy
and decisions week). Thoughts?
Sincerely yours,
The Constantly Barefooted,
Ray
Home phone and fax:
(985)853-0139
E-mail:
rforetjratbellsouthdotnet
Skype Name:
barefootedray
Blog:
www.raysworld.blogs.com
Podcast .rss Feed:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray
God bless President George W. Bush!
God bless our troops!
and God bless America
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
Chris,
Normally I hate the parallel people draw between blindness consumer
groups
and political parties. Yet when it comes to conventions I believe the
comparison is a valid one. On a business level the NFB can use the
opportunity to sell its products and services while advancing its
philosophical and legislative agenda, all of this while simultaneously
generating the most fundraising than at any other point in the year.
On a
recruitment level the organization can reach out through its
divisions,
committees and social gatherings to lock in and hold on to newcomers
in
hopes that they might return home and encourage others to jump in.
Where
the parallel falls short is when you consider the personal level.
Some
people really are turned around by a national convention. Some people
really do use convention as their personal vacation. Still others may
only
truly venture out of their comfort zone by attending a convention, and
for
that reason alone national conventions can be our single most
important
feature. At times I think the best service we can do for a person who
has
never really known independence is to put them in an environment of
swinging
canes, passing dogs and total chaos at the elevators to really let
them see
how independent they could be.
As for communication outside of convention, I think the blame is
mutual.
Until older members learn to embrace the full benefits of technology,
and
until younger members learn not to depend on technology so much, we
will not
fill the middle-age gap that exists at all levels of the movement.
Sound
contradictory? Think on it.
Joe Orozco
"I came, I saw, I conquered."--Julius Caesar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Westbrook" <westbc at clw19.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:09 PM
Subject: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
I read a lot of literature in the NFB about how conventions change
people's
lives, and I'm sure to some extent that is true, but I wonder if we
focus
too much on the convention as a policy setter for the organization?
I'm
sure there are lots of people who cannot for whatever reason make the
national convention who would like to contribute their opinions on
current
and/or future policy, practices, etc. I was not able to attend this
year
because I only got one week of vacation for my job, and I don't see
myself
attending anytime soon since the summer is a busy time for our
company. I
worry that the NFB is ruling out contributions from highly intelligent
blind
people who simply have other commitments during that time period. I
think
we also must remember that convention isn't a fun experience for
everyone.
I went with my mother a few years ago, and if I had gone alone I
honestly
think convention would have been hell for me. The huge dinner crowds
meant
I couldn't eat in the hotel because with my hearing loss the noise was
just
too overwhelming. If I had to worry about finding a restaurant
outside the
hotel (I can't cross streets independently due to my inability to
distinguish parallel from perpendicular traffic) and worry about the
cost of
eating out every night that would have definitely put a damper on my
convention experience. One thing I like that ACB does is provide
support
personnel for people who have hearing impairments in addition to
blindness
to help with situations like that, but that's a topic for a whole
other
message. The exhibit hall was also overwhelming. The various
speeches were
nice, but were they worth traveling all across the country for? I
suppose
it depends on your perspective. I'm not advocating for the
elimination of a
national convention, though I think this will become a greater issue
as
prices for hotels and other things keep going up, but I'm just curious
how a
person who can't or won't go to convention gets involved? There is no
chapter in my area, so perhaps my view of NFB is a bit warped by this
fact.
and yes I realize that a large part of being a federationist is just
getting
out into the community, etc., which I'm doing, but that still doesn't
really
change what I said above. I'm interested in your thoughts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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-------------- next part --------------
Ray:
I don't disagree with your answers below. I suspect, however, that Chris was chafing under the restriction that without attending conventions, he is unable to directly vote on resolutions and other "sense of the convention" type items. While on the surface, such complaints are understandable, they fail to take into account the fact that there is no other really practical method of implementing a system to gauge the will of the membership. Plebecites? Not practical. Delegate assemblies? That's what the rollcall votes at convention are all about.
Moreover, if one were to put in place some sort of extended process for considering resolutions, the reality is that a small elite, i.e., the Board of Directors, would have undue influence on such deliberations. So while vesting supreme authority within the Federation to the convention may leave some folks feeling left out, it is, like Churchill's definition of democracy, the least worst of the alternatives.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From:
mailto:rforetjr at bellsouth.net Ray Foret Jr
To:
mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org NFB Talk Mailing List
Sent:
Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:53 PM
Subject:
Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
Joe, in your message, you say, in part,
"As for communication outside of convention, I think the blame is mutual.
Until older members learn to embrace the full benefits of technology, and
until younger members learn not to depend on technology so much, we will not
fill the middle-age gap that exists at all levels of the movement. Sound
contradictory? Think on it."
No, it does not sound contradictory at all; rather, it's perfectly true.
But, why is it true. It's true partly because the younger generation has
grown up spoiled and knowing nothing but the technology; meanwhile, the
older generation had to learn to do things the manual or harder way. What
ever will the younger generation do when their batteries die out and there
aint no chargers? fair question don't y'all think?
As to attending the conventions, While I feel that Ken's answer was very
condescending and not helpful at all, let me see what I can do to help
answer the question.
As others have said before me, we attend the convention for many
reasons; but, if you want the real bottom line, the convention is the
national policy determiner for the federation. I do not feel left out just
because I never have enough money to attend one; though. I, for one,
believe members do in fact have a voice even if they can't attend
convention. It's called letter writing, phone calling or e-mailing.
Sometimes, we are asked to use that voice; witness our rescue of the talking
book program earlier this year (which I believe we are still not quite
through rescuing just yet and may be called upon yet again to help).
Indeed, It is precisely because the NFB knows and believes in the voices of
its blind members, (even the ones who cannot attend convention) that it is
so strong. From time to time, it asks us to use that voice loud and clear;
as it may well do regarding the quiet car topic. How, therefore, can anyone
assert that we ordinary financially poor blind have no voice because we
cannot physically attend the convention? I ask, not to be sarcastic; but
rather, to try to stimulate your thinking. As for help for the deaf, the
NFB does indeed provide hearing aid and now even Spanish translation for
those who need it. Another individual complained he cannot cross streets
because of his inability to determine perpendicular traffic from parallel
traffic. Let him get help if he needs it. Perhaps it's a good time to say
this. The NFB IS, NOT, opposed to blind people getting help if it is
needed. Many in the ACB believe and say that the NFB is opposed to blind
people getting any kind of help at all. They refer to us as "super blinks"
and so forth. Well, for that matter, they refer to any truly independent
blind person as a "super blink" what a slap in the face that is; both to
then and to us.
As for shortening the national convention, I fail to see how this can ever
be done. Sooner or later, we'll just have to face the reality that
convention lasts for two weeks now and officially make it so. Then, we
might be able to offer special discounts to those able to attend both weeks
of the convention. Slightly lesser discounts to those attending only the
first week, (the board meetings and such) or the second week, (the policy
and decisions week). Thoughts?
Sincerely yours,
The Constantly Barefooted,
Ray
Home phone and fax:
(985)853-0139
E-mail:
rforetjratbellsouthdotnet
Skype Name:
barefootedray
Blog:
http://www.raysworld.blogs.com www.raysworld.blogs.com
Podcast .rss Feed:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray
God bless President George W. Bush!
God bless our troops!
and God bless America
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Orozco" < mailto:jsorozco at gmail.com jsorozco at gmail.com
>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
Chris,
Normally I hate the parallel people draw between blindness consumer groups
and political parties. Yet when it comes to conventions I believe the
comparison is a valid one. On a business level the NFB can use the
opportunity to sell its products and services while advancing its
philosophical and legislative agenda, all of this while simultaneously
generating the most fundraising than at any other point in the year. On a
recruitment level the organization can reach out through its divisions,
committees and social gatherings to lock in and hold on to newcomers in
hopes that they might return home and encourage others to jump in. Where
the parallel falls short is when you consider the personal level. Some
people really are turned around by a national convention. Some people
really do use convention as their personal vacation. Still others may only
truly venture out of their comfort zone by attending a convention, and for
that reason alone national conventions can be our single most important
feature. At times I think the best service we can do for a person who has
never really known independence is to put them in an environment of swinging
canes, passing dogs and total chaos at the elevators to really let them see
how independent they could be.
As for communication outside of convention, I think the blame is mutual.
Until older members learn to embrace the full benefits of technology, and
until younger members learn not to depend on technology so much, we will not
fill the middle-age gap that exists at all levels of the movement. Sound
contradictory? Think on it.
Joe Orozco
"I came, I saw, I conquered."--Julius Caesar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Westbrook" < mailto:westbc at clw19.com westbc at clw19.com
>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:09 PM
Subject: [nfb-talk] do we focus too much on national conventions?
I read a lot of literature in the NFB about how conventions change people's
lives, and I'm sure to some extent that is true, but I wonder if we focus
too much on the convention as a policy setter for the organization? I'm
sure there are lots of people who cannot for whatever reason make the
national convention who would like to contribute their opinions on current
and/or future policy, practices, etc. I was not able to attend this year
because I only got one week of vacation for my job, and I don't see myself
attending anytime soon since the summer is a busy time for our company. I
worry that the NFB is ruling out contributions from highly intelligent blind
people who simply have other commitments during that time period. I think
we also must remember that convention isn't a fun experience for everyone.
I went with my mother a few years ago, and if I had gone alone I honestly
think convention would have been hell for me. The huge dinner crowds meant
I couldn't eat in the hotel because with my hearing loss the noise was just
too overwhelming. If I had to worry about finding a restaurant outside the
hotel (I can't cross streets independently due to my inability to
distinguish parallel from perpendicular traffic) and worry about the cost of
eating out every night that would have definitely put a damper on my
convention experience. One thing I like that ACB does is provide support
personnel for people who have hearing impairments in addition to blindness
to help with situations like that, but that's a topic for a whole other
message. The exhibit hall was also overwhelming. The various speeches were
nice, but were they worth traveling all across the country for? I suppose
it depends on your perspective. I'm not advocating for the elimination of a
national convention, though I think this will become a greater issue as
prices for hotels and other things keep going up, but I'm just curious how a
person who can't or won't go to convention gets involved? There is no
chapter in my area, so perhaps my view of NFB is a bit warped by this fact.
and yes I realize that a large part of being a federationist is just getting
out into the community, etc., which I'm doing, but that still doesn't really
change what I said above. I'm interested in your thoughts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>
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