[nfb-talk] conflict
cheryl echevarria
cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
Sun Nov 25 08:10:25 CST 2007
Ray,
We all feel this way when a new administration comes in such as here in NY, I believe that we have a great new governor even though his popular vote is down, but that is from the sighted world in NY, not for the blind and visually impaired as well as other disabilities.
My point is we expect those in higher office to do better than us and give examples of how things are done, but again we are all human we need help, and we should not be afraid to ask for it. It was like my husband being at his first state convention here this past month, my husband is sighted, and he wanted to help everyone, not that he feels sorry in fact it is the opposite, but he is just a gentlemen all together, always holds a door for a lady, etc. But he was told many times, just ask and never assume, and we all know what happens when we assume anything.
As I had mentioned before, either you are a republican or a democrat, and let me just say we run our federation better than our elected officials do it.
but that is the nature of the beast.
we can live in a dream state of mind, we know the realities. we just have to do our best and that is it.
Cheryl Echevarria
NFB of NY/Long Island Chapter
skype: angeldn38
windows live messenger: cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org>
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Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 8:18 AM
Subject: nfb-talk Digest, Vol 18, Issue 94
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: NFB and ACB (Ray Foret Jr)
2. Re: conflict within the nfb itself (richard payne)
3. Re: conflict within the nfb itself (Ray Foret Jr)
4. Re: conflict within the nfb itself (Cindy Handel)
5. trying to get a chapter going (cheryl echevarria)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 06:51:38 -0600
From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at bellsouth.net<mailto:rforetjr at bellsouth.net>>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
Message-ID: <002301c82f61$ebb85b00$6101a8c0 at dell<mailto:002301c82f61$ebb85b00$6101a8c0 at dell>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Neither do I anymore. His messages were not to be seen anywhere; then, for
a while, the text showed up in the to field, and now, not at all. Don, what
ever program you are using, it's just not translating well. Can you not
just install and use Outlook Express or something? This is getting a little
out of hand.
Sincerely yours,
The Constantly Barefooted,
Ray
Home phone and fax:
(985)853-0139
E-mail:
rforetjratbellsouthdotnet
Skype Name:
barefootedray
Blog:
www.raysworld.blogs.com<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com/>
Podcast .rss Feed:
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God bless President George W. Bush!
God bless our troops!
and God bless America
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com<mailto:flmom2006 at gmail.com>>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 3:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
Okay, I still don't see Don's messages anywhere within his message.
Sherri
----- Original Message -----
From: "don nepple" <dnepple at hotmail.com<mailto:dnepple at hotmail.com>>
To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>; <" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>"@www.nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3E%22 at www.nfbnet.org>>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:05:11 -0600> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>> From:
> dandrews at visi.com<mailto:dandrews at visi.com>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB> > Ray, I would
> generally agree with you except I might not put it so > strongly. Hatred
> is a pretty strong word, but there is something there.> > You have to
> remember that the ACB split off from the NFB, and the > major thing they
> have to justify their existence is to be different > from the NFB. Take
> that away and it is hard to justify your > existence since they don't
> really seem to have a unifying philosophy.> > The other thing I would say
> is that the organization is slowly > dying. I wasn't able to make it to
> NFB convention this year, and > since ACB was here, I went over to check
> it out. One of the first > things you notice, after seeing how small their
> convention is, is > that there are very few young people or kids there. It
> is the older > persons, the NFB haters, who are there. They aren't
> attracting new > people in large numbers because younger people don't care
> what > happened between them and us in the past. Unless they get some new
> > dynamic leadership soon, then they will eventually go away.> > Dave> >
> At 11:17 AM 11/24/2007, you wrote:> >I'm surprised that the ACB got that
> small victory you mentioned. That's> >because the ACB hates the NFB.
> They're just jealous of us because we> >started Newsline and they didn't.
> They can't stand that it's called "NFB> >NewsLine". Most every time I've
> come in to contact with anyone from the> >ACB, all I get is hatred and
> bitterness and sower grapes. They accuse us of> >being full of hatred;
> but, the truth of the matter is that it's they who are> >the ones filled
> with hatred and resentment. They transmit their hatred from> >one
> generation to the next; while, on the other hand, we do not.> >>
> >Sincerely yours,> >The Constantly Barefooted,> >Ray> >Home phone and
> fax:> >(985)853-0139> >E-mail:> >rforetjratbellsouthdotnet> >Skype Name:>
> >barefootedray> >Blog:> >www.raysworld.blogs.com> >Podcast .rss Feed:>
> >http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray> >> >God bless President George
> W.
> Bush!> >God bless our troops!> >and God bless America> >----- Original
> Message -----> >From: "David W Bundy" <sharktrainer13 at pobox.com<mailto:sharktrainer13 at pobox.com>>> >To:
> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>> >Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:35 AM>
> >Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB> >> >> >Corey,> >The power in both
> the NFB & ACB is a collective voice. When we speak as> >either NFB or ACB,
> those to whom we are speaking hear us much more loudly> >than if we speak
> as David and Corey & we are much more likely to get what it> >is we are
> asking for. I recall once Dr. Jernagan saying that you should> >join which
> ever organization is more likely to get you the results you> >seek--If you
> are in an area with a strong NFB presence, then join NFB, but> >if you
> live in an area without a strong NFB presence but a Strong ACB> >group,
> then by all means Join ACB--But whatever you choose, join something> >so
> your voice will be heard. In South Carolina, The NFB is a powerbul force>
> >with a strong track record while the ACB presence is little more than
> token.> >NFB has two to three hundred at our convention each year while
> I,m told that> >ACB's convention averages 15 or 20. NFB has been
> successful in passing a> >number of laws in SC, incleuding establishment
> of the Commission for the> >blind & several defe!> >ats of attempts to
> restructure it out of existance, as well as bills to> >require that TVI's
> be trained in Braille to name a few. The only ACB> >legislative victory
> for ACB in SC that I am aware of, aside from those> >times when they
> joined with us for obvious things, was the withdrawal of> >funding for
> Newsline. So clearly, in SC, the wise choice would be NFB.> >> >>
> >-----Original Message-----> >From: "Corey
> Cook"<cooklists at bellsouth.net<mailto:cooklists at bellsouth.net>>>
> >Sent: 11/23/07 6:04:21 AM> >To: "NFB Talk Mailing
> List"<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>> >Subject: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB> >> >Good
> morning,> >> >I write this email in hopes to get answers and not make
> anyone mad with me.> >> >As a younger blind person in my 20s, taking steps
> to enter the rehab field> >> >to work with and help other Blind people.>
> >> >I have to ask why should I care about the NFB or ACB?> >> >I have
> been
> lerking on these lists for a while now, and I am on some NFB> >> >lists,
> as I have time with my job and other pursuits I read both the Braille> >>
> >Monitor, and the Braille Forum.> >> >I am trying to become better
> informed about both groups in hopes that I will> >> >join one of them.> >>
> >The thing I keep coming back to is this, for all the good that is
> happening> >> >in both groups, there is so much fighting and accusing.> >>
> >It seems that as Blind people we are at war.> >> >I am getting the
> feeling that both groups in there own way are allowing> >> >politics to
> get in the way of the greater good, witch I thought was to> >> >improve
> the lives of the Blind, and give tomorrow's Blind a brighter future.> >>
> >As someone who is not currently a member of iether group I must say this
> is> >> >serving to scare me away.> >> >So here is my question witch I
> would love to be answered with out bashing> >> >anyone, why should I
> care?> >> >Why should I give my money and time to either group?> >> >What
> good can I accomplish by choosing to join the ACB or the NFB?> >> >Think
> about it, you might just get a new member out of this email.> >>
> >Sincerely,> >> >Corey M. Cook> >>
> >_______________________________________________> >nfb-talk mailing list>
> >nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk>
> >>
> >_______________________________________________> >nfb-talk mailing list>
> >nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk>
> >>
> >_______________________________________________> >nfb-talk mailing list>
> >nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk>
> >>
> >> >> >--> >No virus found in this incoming message.> >Checked by AVG
> Free
> Edition.> >Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.5/1149 - Release
> Date: > >11/24/2007 10:06 AM> >
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:54:45 -0500
From: "richard payne" <rchpay7 at sbcglobal.net<mailto:rchpay7 at sbcglobal.net>>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] conflict within the nfb itself
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
Message-ID: <004001c82f62$5aede620$5c83fa4c at YOUR11335C2838<mailto:004001c82f62$5aede620$5c83fa4c at YOUR11335C2838>>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Do any of you have any great ideals about n
ew prodjects that can generate money for local chapters?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com<mailto:flmom2006 at gmail.com>>
To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:09 AM
Subject: [nfb-talk] conflict within the nfb itself
I wonder if the fates are telling me not to send this message out? This is
my third attempt. *smile*.
I read the thread concerning the differences and similarities between ACB
and NFB and it brought to mind another subject.
I would propose that this is due to possibly personality differences, but
what really bothers me about both organization is the in-fighting that goes
on
and the clash of egos. I have noticed that if a chapter, for example, does a
fund-raising project, they don't want to talk much about what kind of
results
they had, particularly if it was successful for fear that some other chapter
might outdo them. I have seen chapter members totally take credit for things
that other chapter members did without thought or thanks to the chapter
member responsible for the idea in the first place. If a strong person comes
into
the organization with ideas to develop and forward the goals of the NFB
chapter, often, his ideas are thwarted, because others feel threatened by
that
person.
I don't get it! I know that whatever is accomplished in the NFB Greater
Orlando chapter, it is not me, Sherri Brun as president that accomplished
this,
but the chapter as a whole, of which I am one small part.
I believe that this in-fighting and the ego problems that exist have done
much to drive very capable, enthusiastic and involved people away from NFB.
We say we are working to "change what it means to be blind", but often, it
seems to me we let our personalities and egos get in the way. It would be my
hope that we could do more toward walking the walk instead of just talking
the talk of what it means to be a Federationist.
Looking forward to your feedback. *smile*
Sherri Brun
Secretary
National Federation of the Blind of Florida
President
National Federation of the Blind
Greater Orlando Chapter
E-mail:
sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com>
HURRY CHECK OUT NFBF FABULOUS ALASKAN CRUISE AT
http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm>
TO DONATE YOUR USED CELL PHONE AND CHANGE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BLIND IN
CENTRAL FLORIDA go to:
images/vd-button
Whether we succeed or fail in what we do is not the essential thing.
What is important is the heart with which we live our lives.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:13:47 -0600
From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at bellsouth.net<mailto:rforetjr at bellsouth.net>>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] conflict within the nfb itself
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
Message-ID: <003201c82f65$04501a60$6101a8c0 at dell<mailto:003201c82f65$04501a60$6101a8c0 at dell>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
To add to what Sherri just said, I'd like to add my two credits worth. I
believe everybody on this list is more than well aware of the many times
I've posted here and plainly said that the NFB has never stated that we do
not need help; but, when we truly do not need help, just please leave us
alone. Well, we've all heard Dr. Jernigan say on more than one occasion
that there's no such thing as a perfect blind person. But, let me let y'all
in on something. When I first joined the federation, I was under the very
distinct impression that the top leaders in the federation were "perfect
model blind people" who never needed help from anybody. Not because they
faked sight they didn't have; but rather, because they were just that
competent in what they did and how they did it. They expected each and
every one of us to become exactly like them; and, if you fell short of the
mark, by even the tiniest amount, if you dared to disagree with them in even
the smallest detail about anything, you were a traitor to the cause and
would be publicly branded as such and called out at a national convention
where you would be told to either tow the line or get out. As long as you
agreed with them, you were ay okay. Good thing then that I agreed with the
federation long before I became a member.
However, as time passed, I began to see things differently. I began to
see past the veneer of incorrect perception and almost God-lie status I had
put the Federation leaders in to. I began to see that, when it comes right
down to it, they put their pants on the same as you and me. In short,
they're human too; and, being human, they need help too just like any other
blind person. Also, there was a time when they too didn't know the things
they know and didn't have the independence and skills they have today.
Don't get me wrong. I still support the Federation; and, I suspect I always
will. As I now see it, it's not a matter of doing things exactly like the
leadership "tells you to"; rather, it's having the tools you need to live an
independent life, and using those tools to the best of your ability when
asked by the leaders to do so--for example, our fight earlier this year to
help preserve the talking book program. But for us, the program would have
died. Because of us, it did not. Because of our leadership being the first
to see the danger, they warned us it was coming and asked (note I say
"asked") our help in fighting for it. They did not tell us to do anything;
rather, they asked it of us and we acted. We acted because we trusted our
Federation leaders as fellow blind human beings who also have a steak in the
same things we do. Yet, I can't help but wonder, at least a little. How
many new Federationists come in to our movement with the mistaken ideas I
myself had? What is it that makes these mistaken ideas exist in the first
place? Perhaps it's the pedestal on to which we put our leaders without
realizing we're doing it. Yes, of course, our leaders deserve honor; but,
I've sometimes wondered whether they wish we wouldn't maybe tone it down
just a little, for fear of producing in some the very misconceptions I
myself possessed in the beginning. Do y'all remember when I raised the
question about laughter some months back? Well, I had a motive behind it.
What was that motive? I wanted to try to find out something. What I wanted
to find out was this. I wanted to find out whether the general membership
of the NFB thought it was okay to laugh at funny things that happened to
blind people. I've read in "The Braille Monitor" comments by some who
indicated it was not; but, I won't belabor the point here. I'm sure one can
find all the things I said in the archives. Anyhow, such are my thoughts at
the moment.
Sincerely yours,
The Constantly Barefooted,
Ray
Home phone and fax:
(985)853-0139
E-mail:
rforetjratbellsouthdotnet
Skype Name:
barefootedray
Blog:
www.raysworld.blogs.com<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com/>
Podcast .rss Feed:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray<http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray>
God bless President George W. Bush!
God bless our troops!
and God bless America.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com<mailto:flmom2006 at gmail.com>>
To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 4:09 AM
Subject: [nfb-talk] conflict within the nfb itself
I wonder if the fates are telling me not to send this message out? This is
my third attempt. *smile*.
I read the thread concerning the differences and similarities between ACB
and NFB and it brought to mind another subject.
I would propose that this is due to possibly personality differences, but
what really bothers me about both organization is the in-fighting that goes
on
and the clash of egos. I have noticed that if a chapter, for example, does a
fund-raising project, they don't want to talk much about what kind of
results
they had, particularly if it was successful for fear that some other chapter
might outdo them. I have seen chapter members totally take credit for things
that other chapter members did without thought or thanks to the chapter
member responsible for the idea in the first place. If a strong person comes
into
the organization with ideas to develop and forward the goals of the NFB
chapter, often, his ideas are thwarted, because others feel threatened by
that
person.
I don't get it! I know that whatever is accomplished in the NFB Greater
Orlando chapter, it is not me, Sherri Brun as president that accomplished
this,
but the chapter as a whole, of which I am one small part.
I believe that this in-fighting and the ego problems that exist have done
much to drive very capable, enthusiastic and involved people away from NFB.
We say we are working to "change what it means to be blind", but often, it
seems to me we let our personalities and egos get in the way. It would be my
hope that we could do more toward walking the walk instead of just talking
the talk of what it means to be a Federationist.
Looking forward to your feedback. *smile*
Sherri Brun
Secretary
National Federation of the Blind of Florida
President
National Federation of the Blind
Greater Orlando Chapter
E-mail:
sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com>
HURRY CHECK OUT NFBF FABULOUS ALASKAN CRUISE AT
http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm>
TO DONATE YOUR USED CELL PHONE AND CHANGE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BLIND IN
CENTRAL FLORIDA go to:
images/vd-button
Whether we succeed or fail in what we do is not the essential thing.
What is important is the heart with which we live our lives.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
nfb-talk mailing list
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 08:22:33 -0500
From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net<mailto:cindy425 at verizon.net>>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] conflict within the nfb itself
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
Message-ID: <003601c82f66$3d70ee40$6401a8c0 at Handel<mailto:003601c82f66$3d70ee40$6401a8c0 at Handel>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Sherry,
I think these things aren't unique to the NFB. People are more selfish,
these days, and less inclined to working for the good of all without
recognition. When I joined the NFB, in 1980, the organization seemed to
work together for whatever goals were set forth. People worked hard to
improve lives of blind people, whether it was for them, individually, or
someone else. Even when a chapter did most of the work to resolve a
problem, it was mentioned in the President's report at state convention. I
believe the reason for this was that people thought of the being a member of
NFB as a whole, rather than simply being a member of an NFB chapter. I wish
we could get back to that, but it might be difficult.
Cindy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com<mailto:flmom2006 at gmail.com>>
To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:09 AM
Subject: [nfb-talk] conflict within the nfb itself
I wonder if the fates are telling me not to send this message out? This is
my third attempt. *smile*.
I read the thread concerning the differences and similarities between ACB
and NFB and it brought to mind another subject.
I would propose that this is due to possibly personality differences, but
what really bothers me about both organization is the in-fighting that goes
on
and the clash of egos. I have noticed that if a chapter, for example, does a
fund-raising project, they don't want to talk much about what kind of
results
they had, particularly if it was successful for fear that some other chapter
might outdo them. I have seen chapter members totally take credit for things
that other chapter members did without thought or thanks to the chapter
member responsible for the idea in the first place. If a strong person comes
into
the organization with ideas to develop and forward the goals of the NFB
chapter, often, his ideas are thwarted, because others feel threatened by
that
person.
I don't get it! I know that whatever is accomplished in the NFB Greater
Orlando chapter, it is not me, Sherri Brun as president that accomplished
this,
but the chapter as a whole, of which I am one small part.
I believe that this in-fighting and the ego problems that exist have done
much to drive very capable, enthusiastic and involved people away from NFB.
We say we are working to "change what it means to be blind", but often, it
seems to me we let our personalities and egos get in the way. It would be my
hope that we could do more toward walking the walk instead of just talking
the talk of what it means to be a Federationist.
Looking forward to your feedback. *smile*
Sherri Brun
Secretary
National Federation of the Blind of Florida
President
National Federation of the Blind
Greater Orlando Chapter
E-mail:
sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com>
HURRY CHECK OUT NFBF FABULOUS ALASKAN CRUISE AT
http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm>
TO DONATE YOUR USED CELL PHONE AND CHANGE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BLIND IN
CENTRAL FLORIDA go to:
images/vd-button
Whether we succeed or fail in what we do is not the essential thing.
What is important is the heart with which we live our lives.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 08:52:41 -0500
From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>>
Subject: [nfb-talk] trying to get a chapter going
To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
Message-ID: <BAY131-DAV172683C79A20242A5CEA51A1740 at phx.gbl<mailto:BAY131-DAV172683C79A20242A5CEA51A1740 at phx.gbl>>
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I don't think anything of the kind that the NFB in not moving forward, I am trying to get a chapter going out here in Suffolk County long island, and if anyone knows anyone who lives out this way please let me know. A lot of people tell me that I it won't go anywhere because Suffolk is so ACB, well we will just have to see, my problem is finding people. I know there is a lot of seniors out here, they are welcome, but we definitely need new blood I am the youngest I think in the long island chapter itself, I am 40, we are constantly looking for new people. The transportation out in long island is also hard, we don't have any really go transportation on the bus line, never mind paratransit. But when there is a will there is a way.
Cheryl Echevarria
NFB of NY/Long Island Chapter
skype: angeldn38
windows live messenger: cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com%3Cmailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>>
----- Original Message -----
From: nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org>>
To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:20 AM
Subject: nfb-talk Digest, Vol 18, Issue 93
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of nfb-talk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. conflict within the nfb itself (Sherri)
2. Re: NFB and ACB (T. Joseph Carter)
3. Re: NFB and ACB (T. Joseph Carter)
4. Re: NFB and ACB (T. Joseph Carter)
5. Re: Fw: Update on Currency case (T. Joseph Carter)
6. Re: currency case (T. Joseph Carter)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 05:09:34 -0500
From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com<mailto:flmom2006 at gmail.com<mailto:flmom2006 at gmail.com%3Cmailto:flmom2006 at gmail.com>>>
Subject: [nfb-talk] conflict within the nfb itself
To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
Message-ID: <014801c82f4c$559a1380$6601a8c0 at sherride6f1cc5<mailto:014801c82f4c$559a1380$6601a8c0 at sherride6f1cc5<mailto:014801c82f4c$559a1380$6601a8c0 at sherride6f1cc5%3Cmailto:014801c82f4c$559a1380$6601a8c0 at sherride6f1cc5>>>
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I wonder if the fates are telling me not to send this message out? This is my third attempt. *smile*.
I read the thread concerning the differences and similarities between ACB and NFB and it brought to mind another subject.
I would propose that this is due to possibly personality differences, but what really bothers me about both organization is the in-fighting that goes on
and the clash of egos. I have noticed that if a chapter, for example, does a fund-raising project, they don't want to talk much about what kind of results
they had, particularly if it was successful for fear that some other chapter might outdo them. I have seen chapter members totally take credit for things
that other chapter members did without thought or thanks to the chapter member responsible for the idea in the first place. If a strong person comes into
the organization with ideas to develop and forward the goals of the NFB chapter, often, his ideas are thwarted, because others feel threatened by that
person.
I don't get it! I know that whatever is accomplished in the NFB Greater Orlando chapter, it is not me, Sherri Brun as president that accomplished this,
but the chapter as a whole, of which I am one small part.
I believe that this in-fighting and the ego problems that exist have done much to drive very capable, enthusiastic and involved people away from NFB.
We say we are working to "change what it means to be blind", but often, it seems to me we let our personalities and egos get in the way. It would be my
hope that we could do more toward walking the walk instead of just talking the talk of what it means to be a Federationist.
Looking forward to your feedback. *smile*
Sherri Brun
Secretary
National Federation of the Blind of Florida
President
National Federation of the Blind
Greater Orlando Chapter
E-mail:
sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com%3Cmailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com>>
HURRY CHECK OUT NFBF FABULOUS ALASKAN CRUISE AT
http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm%3Chttp://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm>>
TO DONATE YOUR USED CELL PHONE AND CHANGE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BLIND IN CENTRAL FLORIDA go to:
images/vd-button
Whether we succeed or fail in what we do is not the essential thing.
What is important is the heart with which we live our lives.
-------------- next part --------------
I wonder if the fates are telling me not to send this message out? This is my third attempt. *smile*.
?
I read the thread concerning the differences and similarities between ACB and NFB and it brought to mind another subject.
?
?
I would propose that this is due to possibly personality differences, but what really bothers me about both organization is the in-fighting that goes on
and the clash of egos. I have noticed that if a chapter, for example, does a fund-raising project, they don't want to talk much about what kind of results
they had, particularly if it was successful for fear that some other chapter might outdo them. I have seen chapter members totally take credit for things
that other chapter members did without thought or thanks to the chapter member responsible for the idea in the first place. If a strong person comes into
the organization with ideas to develop and forward the goals? of the NFB chapter, often, his ideas are thwarted, because others feel threatened by that
person. ?
I don't get it! I know that whatever is accomplished in the NFB Greater Orlando chapter, it is not me, Sherri Brun as president that accomplished this,
but the chapter as a whole, of which I am one small part. ?
I believe that this in-fighting and the ego problems that exist have done much to drive very capable, enthusiastic and involved people away from NFB.?
We say we are working to "change what it means to be blind", but often, it seems to me we let our personalities and egos get in the way. It would be my
hope that we could do more toward walking the walk instead of just talking the talk of what it means to be a Federationist.?
Looking forward to your feedback. *smile*?
Sherri Brun
Secretary
National Federation of the Blind of Florida
President
National Federation of the Blind
Greater Orlando Chapter
E-mail:?
mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com%3Cmailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com>> sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com%3Cmailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com>>
?
?HURRY CHECK OUT NFBF FABULOUS ALASKAN CRUISE AT
?
http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm%3Chttp://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm>> http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm%3Chttp://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm>>
?
TO DONATE YOUR USED CELL PHONE AND CHANGE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BLIND IN CENTRAL FLORIDA go to:
?
?
images/vd-button
?
?
Whether we succeed or fail in what we do is not the essential thing.
?
What is important is the heart with which we live our lives.
?
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:25:20 -0800
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net%3Cmailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net>>>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
To: NFB Talk Mailing List <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
Message-ID: <20071125102520.GC24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125102520.GC24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125102520.GC24865 at bluecherry.net%3Cmailto:20071125102520.GC24865 at bluecherry.net>>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I don't know the circumstances of that issue, but I think I would be hard
pressed to see the value in the ACB opposing Newsline. I've seen in the
past few years one or two people try to disrupt it in a few places just to
screw with the NFB on behalf of the ACB, and I hope that this was not one
of those instances.
I would hope that the leadership of the ACB would consider such spiteful
attempts to undermine the Newsline specifically because of its connection
to the NFB as disdainful as I do. That kind of behavior is beneath their
dignity. As would it be for us to engage in the same kind of behavior.
If indeed the situation in South Carolina was political sabotage, I would
consider it not a victory, but a shameful act to be neither repeated nor
reciprocated. Neither organization can be totally successful fighting for
the blind if we distract ourselves by fighting against the blind based on
the initials they wear on their t-shirts.
I have lived places where the NFB was not a strong organization. In
California, the NFB is pretty weak. In Oregon, neither organization is
particularly strong at the moment. I maintain my membership in the NFB
because I generally believe in the NFB's approach. I know for certain
that if I wait for an accommodation from the powers that be, I'll fail.
Now, I could let myself fail and then try to fight for what was denied me,
or I can choose not to let them have the power to impede my progress. I
have enough experience to know that not only do they tend to drag their
feet at every turn, but that I am better at providing for myself than they
ever have been.
The ACB simply does not reflect those values, so I have always supported
the NFB. To do otherwise would be like joining the dominant political
party in the area simply because they are more popular. The party would
surely welcome my support to increase their popularity, but that doesn't
mean they're going to vote the way I want when the bills come their way.
(Of course, I believe that's true of both political parties, but the
analogy stands..)
I know where the NFB will stand on most issues. Often, I understand and
agree with the Federation's position automatically. Sometimes, I need to
be convinced it's right.
Sometimes I'm just going to disagree period--as in this case with the
currency thing. I think we should neither support nor impede the ACB's
legal action. We should prepare to combat the public misconception that
failure of this legal action means that blind people can't work with money
in the case that the ACB fails. At the same time, we should prepare a
proposal for the US Treasury Department both on what sort of adaptations
to the currency are pragmatically applicable along with a fiscally
responsible transition plan in the case that the ACB succeeds.
Our stated opinion in the NFB is that there are far more important things
for us to worry about than whether our money is all the same size and
shape or not. I mostly agree with that. I think it cannot hurt to be
prepared for the outcome, but beyond that I would rather work on the
bigger issues of employment and education.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 09:35:17AM -0500, David W Bundy wrote:
> Corey,
> The power in both the NFB & ACB is a collective voice. When we speak as either NFB or ACB, those to whom we are speaking hear us much more loudly than if we speak as David and Corey & we are much more likely to get what it is we are asking for. I recall once Dr. Jernagan saying that you should join which ever organization is more likely to get you the results you seek--If you are in an area with a strong NFB presence, then join NFB, but if you live in an area without a strong NFB presence but a Strong ACB group, then by all means Join ACB--But whatever you choose, join something so your voice will be heard. In South Carolina, The NFB is a powerbul force with a strong track record while the ACB presence is little more than token. NFB has two to three hundred at our convention each year while I,m told that ACB's convention averages 15 or 20. NFB has been successful in passing a number of laws in SC, incleuding establishment of the Commission for the blind & several !
de!
fe!
> ats of attempts to restructure it out of existance, as well as bills to require that TVI's be trained in Braille to name a few. The only ACB legislative victory for ACB in SC that I am aware of, aside from those times when they joined with us for obvious things, was the withdrawal of funding for Newsline. So clearly, in SC, the wise choice would be NFB.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:31:39 -0800
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net%3Cmailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net>>>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
To: NFB Talk Mailing List <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
Message-ID: <20071125103139.GD24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125103139.GD24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125103139.GD24865 at bluecherry.net%3Cmailto:20071125103139.GD24865 at bluecherry.net>>>
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Ray,
Generally I have a hard time faulting anything you contribute to a thread.
Your thoughts are usually well-considered and highly applicable.
In this instance, however, I think this message isn't helpful. I'm not
saying that you're wrong. You're probably right, actually. It just
doesn't help us move forward. Moving forward is what is most important
here, not getting into a collective peeing contest.
It doesn't matter who did what to whom or when. It is our obligation as
responsible members of this organization to see that it does not continue
any further. That is what I am going to do, at least. I hope that the
majority of us in the Federation can bring ourselves to do that. I
likewise hope the Council will do likewise. If they do not, they will
fade into obscurity. That applies equally to us, though, and I am not
ready to see the NFB fade into obscurity over old grudges.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 11:17:02AM -0600, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> I'm surprised that the ACB got that small victory you mentioned. That's
> because the ACB hates the NFB. They're just jealous of us because we
> started Newsline and they didn't. They can't stand that it's called "NFB
> NewsLine". Most every time I've come in to contact with anyone from the
> ACB, all I get is hatred and bitterness and sower grapes. They accuse us of
> being full of hatred; but, the truth of the matter is that it's they who are
> the ones filled with hatred and resentment. They transmit their hatred from
> one generation to the next; while, on the other hand, we do not.
>
> Sincerely yours,
> The Constantly Barefooted,
> Ray
> Home phone and fax:
> (985)853-0139
> E-mail:
> rforetjratbellsouthdotnet
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
> Blog:
> www.raysworld.blogs.com<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com/<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com%3chttp//www.raysworld.blogs.com/>>
> Podcast .rss Feed:
> http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray<http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray<http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray%3Chttp://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray>>
>
> God bless President George W. Bush!
> God bless our troops!
> and God bless America
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David W Bundy" <sharktrainer13 at pobox.com<mailto:sharktrainer13 at pobox.com<mailto:sharktrainer13 at pobox.com%3Cmailto:sharktrainer13 at pobox.com>>>
> To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
>
>
> Corey,
> The power in both the NFB & ACB is a collective voice. When we speak as
> either NFB or ACB, those to whom we are speaking hear us much more loudly
> than if we speak as David and Corey & we are much more likely to get what it
> is we are asking for. I recall once Dr. Jernagan saying that you should
> join which ever organization is more likely to get you the results you
> seek--If you are in an area with a strong NFB presence, then join NFB, but
> if you live in an area without a strong NFB presence but a Strong ACB
> group, then by all means Join ACB--But whatever you choose, join something
> so your voice will be heard. In South Carolina, The NFB is a powerbul force
> with a strong track record while the ACB presence is little more than token.
> NFB has two to three hundred at our convention each year while I,m told that
> ACB's convention averages 15 or 20. NFB has been successful in passing a
> number of laws in SC, incleuding establishment of the Commission for the
> blind & several defe!
> ats of attempts to restructure it out of existance, as well as bills to
> require that TVI's be trained in Braille to name a few. The only ACB
> legislative victory for ACB in SC that I am aware of, aside from those
> times when they joined with us for obvious things, was the withdrawal of
> funding for Newsline. So clearly, in SC, the wise choice would be NFB.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Corey Cook"<cooklists at bellsouth.net<mailto:cooklists at bellsouth.net<mailto:cooklists at bellsouth.net%3Cmailto:cooklists at bellsouth.net>>>
> Sent: 11/23/07 6:04:21 AM
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List"<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
> Subject: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
>
> Good morning,
>
> I write this email in hopes to get answers and not make anyone mad with me.
>
> As a younger blind person in my 20s, taking steps to enter the rehab field
>
> to work with and help other Blind people.
>
> I have to ask why should I care about the NFB or ACB?
>
> I have been lerking on these lists for a while now, and I am on some NFB
>
> lists, as I have time with my job and other pursuits I read both the Braille
>
> Monitor, and the Braille Forum.
>
> I am trying to become better informed about both groups in hopes that I will
>
> join one of them.
>
> The thing I keep coming back to is this, for all the good that is happening
>
> in both groups, there is so much fighting and accusing.
>
> It seems that as Blind people we are at war.
>
> I am getting the feeling that both groups in there own way are allowing
>
> politics to get in the way of the greater good, witch I thought was to
>
> improve the lives of the Blind, and give tomorrow's Blind a brighter future.
>
> As someone who is not currently a member of iether group I must say this is
>
> serving to scare me away.
>
> So here is my question witch I would love to be answered with out bashing
>
> anyone, why should I care?
>
> Why should I give my money and time to either group?
>
> What good can I accomplish by choosing to join the ACB or the NFB?
>
> Think about it, you might just get a new member out of this email.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Corey M. Cook
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
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>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
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>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk%3Chttp://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk>>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:39:12 -0800
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net%3Cmailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net>>>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
To: NFB Talk Mailing List <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
Message-ID: <20071125103912.GE24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125103912.GE24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125103912.GE24865 at bluecherry.net%3Cmailto:20071125103912.GE24865 at bluecherry.net>>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
David, you point out that their membership is waning. The problem is that
ours is as well. Maybe not as rapidly or as remarkably, but particularly
in Western states (Colorado excepted), we really don't have the kind of
support we once had.
I think your assessment of the reaction younger people have to the ACB
applies also to the NFB. A lot of people my age and younger just do not
want to get into this big battle over who did what to whom and when. I
think Corey was expressing precisely that frustration.
Granted that is not the only thing affecting our ability to attract the
younger generations. We talked about the problem just a few weeks ago
that people today seem to be more interested in what we can do for them
than what they can do with us.
Fewer today are willing to become active, plain and simple. Neither we
nor the ACB can afford to scare away potential new members by continuing
this feud. We're modern-day Hatfields and McCoys here, and nobody really
cares about the pig or the hen anymore.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 12:05:11PM -0600, David Andrews wrote:
> The other thing I would say is that the organization is slowly
> dying. I wasn't able to make it to NFB convention this year, and
> since ACB was here, I went over to check it out. One of the first
> things you notice, after seeing how small their convention is, is
> that there are very few young people or kids there. It is the older
> persons, the NFB haters, who are there. They aren't attracting new
> people in large numbers because younger people don't care what
> happened between them and us in the past. Unless they get some new
> dynamic leadership soon, then they will eventually go away.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:51:27 -0800
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net%3Cmailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net>>>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Update on Currency case
To: NFB Talk Mailing List <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
Message-ID: <20071125105127.GF24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125105127.GF24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125105127.GF24865 at bluecherry.net%3Cmailto:20071125105127.GF24865 at bluecherry.net>>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mike,
That's all the more reason why I believe we should stay out of it. Let
the fallout be theirs, for good or ill. If they fail now, they will say
it is because we interfered. I can't rightly say they would be wrong if
that were the case.
If it does have further negative outcomes for us, then we of the
Federation may well have contributed to them by disputing accuracy of the
facts found by lower courts. Do we really want to be responsible for
that?
As I say elsewhere in this thread, it would have been best for us to
prepare for them to win or to lose this case.
For the record, I expect the supreme court would likely decline to hear
this case. If they did hear it, I do doubt that the ACB would win, but I
bet we'll disagree on which justices would vote for and against it.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 04:00:29PM -0800, Mike Freeman wrote:
> Joe:
> ?
> Although I support NFB's position on accessible currency -- that it would be nice to have but not having it isn't discriminatory -- I wrote the last resolution on the subject for an entirely different reason: Chris Gray has pledged that if ACB loses in the Court of Appeals that it will take the case all the way to the Supreme Court. Given the current Supreme Court (whatever one thinks of its philosophy), can anyone in his/her right mind entertain the notion that ACB would win? If they can, I've got a fine bridge in Brooklyn I would be more than happy to sell them at a bargain price.
> ?
> So let's assume that ACB takes this to the Supreme Court and loses. My fear is that, as has so often happened in cases brought by ACB involving blind vendors, the ruling will be broader than one simply treating of the specific currency issue. I am quite fearful that many of our Section 504 protections will be dismantled through applying a "strict constructionist" template to it -- something I consider highly likely in this case. Remember, ADA does not apply to Federal entities; Section 504 of the Rehab Act as Amended does.
> ?
> As I've said on some other lists including the list of our own Council affiliate, I believe that this suit is in the nature of shooting a hybernating bear with an arrow. I'd hate to be there when she comes out of that den!
> ?
> Mike
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:54:02 -0800
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net%3Cmailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net>>>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] currency case
To: NFB Talk Mailing List <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>>
Message-ID: <20071125105402.GG24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125105402.GG24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125105402.GG24865 at bluecherry.net%3Cmailto:20071125105402.GG24865 at bluecherry.net>>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I'm sure you could get a plastic sizing card from your local bank free of
charge, courtesy of the government, as happens in other countries.
On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 07:37:43AM -0600, Munchie Lady wrote:
> My question would be, would the differences in sizes be enough that a
> person would be able to tell what the bill was if they didn't have something
> to compare it to?
>
> Marsha
------------------------------
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End of nfb-talk Digest, Vol 18, Issue 93
****************************************
-------------- next part --------------
I don't think anything of the kind that the NFB in not moving forward, I am trying to get a chapter going out here in Suffolk County long island, and if anyone knows anyone who lives out this way please let me know. A lot of people tell me that I it won't go anywhere because Suffolk is so ACB, well we will just have to see, my problem is finding people. I know there is a lot of seniors out here, they are welcome, but we definitely need new blood I am the youngest I think in the long island chapter itself, I am 40, we are constantly looking for new people. The transportation out in long island is also hard, we don't have any really go transportation on the bus line, never mind paratransit. But when there is a will there is a way.
?
Cheryl Echevarria
NFB of NY/Long Island Chapter
skype: angeldn38
windows live messenger: mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com<mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
----- Original Message -----
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Subject:
nfb-talk Digest, Vol 18, Issue 93
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of nfb-talk digest..."
Today's Topics:
?? 1. conflict within the nfb itself (Sherri)
?? 2. Re: NFB and ACB (T. Joseph Carter)
?? 3. Re: NFB and ACB (T. Joseph Carter)
?? 4. Re: NFB and ACB (T. Joseph Carter)
?? 5. Re: Fw: Update on Currency case (T. Joseph Carter)
?? 6. Re: currency case (T. Joseph Carter)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 05:09:34 -0500
From: "Sherri" < mailto:flmom2006 at gmail.com<mailto:flmom2006 at gmail.com> flmom2006 at gmail.com<mailto:flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>
Subject: [nfb-talk] conflict within the nfb itself
To: < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>
Message-ID: < mailto:014801c82f4c$559a1380$6601a8c0 at sherride6f1cc5<mailto:014801c82f4c$559a1380$6601a8c0 at sherride6f1cc5> 014801c82f4c$559a1380$6601a8c0 at sherride6f1cc5<mailto:014801c82f4c$559a1380$6601a8c0 at sherride6f1cc5>
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I wonder if the fates are telling me not to send this message out? This is my third attempt. *smile*.
I read the thread concerning the differences and similarities between ACB and NFB and it brought to mind another subject.
?
I would propose that this is due to possibly personality differences, but what really bothers me about both organization is the in-fighting that goes on
and the clash of egos. I have noticed that if a chapter, for example, does a fund-raising project, they don't want to talk much about what kind of results
they had, particularly if it was successful for fear that some other chapter might outdo them. I have seen chapter members totally take credit for things
that other chapter members did without thought or thanks to the chapter member responsible for the idea in the first place. If a strong person comes into
the organization with ideas to develop and forward the goals? of the NFB chapter, often, his ideas are thwarted, because others feel threatened by that
person.?
I don't get it! I know that whatever is accomplished in the NFB Greater Orlando chapter, it is not me, Sherri Brun as president that accomplished this,
but the chapter as a whole, of which I am one small part.?
I believe that this in-fighting and the ego problems that exist have done much to drive very capable, enthusiastic and involved people away from NFB.
We say we are working to "change what it means to be blind", but often, it seems to me we let our personalities and egos get in the way. It would be my
hope that we could do more toward walking the walk instead of just talking the talk of what it means to be a Federationist.
Looking forward to your feedback. *smile*
Sherri Brun
Secretary
National Federation of the Blind of Florida
President
National Federation of the Blind
Greater Orlando Chapter
E-mail:?
mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com> sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com>
?HURRY CHECK OUT NFBF FABULOUS ALASKAN CRUISE AT
http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm> http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm>
TO DONATE YOUR USED CELL PHONE AND CHANGE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BLIND IN CENTRAL FLORIDA go to:
?
images/vd-button
?
Whether we succeed or fail in what we do is not the essential thing.
What is important is the heart with which we live our lives.
-------------- next part --------------
I wonder if the fates are telling me not to send this message out? This is my third attempt. *smile*.
?
I read the thread concerning the differences and similarities between ACB and NFB and it brought to mind another subject.
?
?
I would propose that this is due to possibly personality differences, but what really bothers me about both organization is the in-fighting that goes on
and the clash of egos. I have noticed that if a chapter, for example, does a fund-raising project, they don't want to talk much about what kind of results
they had, particularly if it was successful for fear that some other chapter might outdo them. I have seen chapter members totally take credit for things
that other chapter members did without thought or thanks to the chapter member responsible for the idea in the first place. If a strong person comes into
the organization with ideas to develop and forward the goals? of the NFB chapter, often, his ideas are thwarted, because others feel threatened by that
person. ?
I don't get it! I know that whatever is accomplished in the NFB Greater Orlando chapter, it is not me, Sherri Brun as president that accomplished this,
but the chapter as a whole, of which I am one small part. ?
I believe that this in-fighting and the ego problems that exist have done much to drive very capable, enthusiastic and involved people away from NFB.?
We say we are working to "change what it means to be blind", but often, it seems to me we let our personalities and egos get in the way. It would be my
hope that we could do more toward walking the walk instead of just talking the talk of what it means to be a Federationist.?
Looking forward to your feedback. *smile*?
Sherri Brun
Secretary
National Federation of the Blind of Florida
President
National Federation of the Blind
Greater Orlando Chapter
E-mail:?
mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com> mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com>
mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com> sbrun at cfl.rr.com<mailto:sbrun at cfl.rr.com>
?
?HURRY CHECK OUT NFBF FABULOUS ALASKAN CRUISE AT
?
http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm> http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm>
http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm> http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm<http://www.nfbflorida.org/cruise.htm>
?
TO DONATE YOUR USED CELL PHONE AND CHANGE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BLIND IN CENTRAL FLORIDA go to:
?
?
images/vd-button
?
?
Whether we succeed or fail in what we do is not the essential thing.
?
What is important is the heart with which we live our lives.
?
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:25:20 -0800
From: "T. Joseph Carter" < mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net> tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net>
>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
To: NFB Talk Mailing List < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>
Message-ID: < mailto:20071125102520.GC24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125102520.GC24865 at bluecherry.net> 20071125102520.GC24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125102520.GC24865 at bluecherry.net>
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I don't know the circumstances of that issue, but I think I would be hard
pressed to see the value in the ACB opposing Newsline.? I've seen in the
past few years one or two people try to disrupt it in a few places just to
screw with the NFB on behalf of the ACB, and I hope that this was not one
of those instances.
I would hope that the leadership of the ACB would consider such spiteful
attempts to undermine the Newsline specifically because of its connection
to the NFB as disdainful as I do.? That kind of behavior is beneath their
dignity.? As would it be for us to engage in the same kind of behavior.
If indeed the situation in South Carolina was political sabotage, I would
consider it not a victory, but a shameful act to be neither repeated nor
reciprocated.? Neither organization can be totally successful fighting for
the blind if we distract ourselves by fighting against the blind based on
the initials they wear on their t-shirts.
I have lived places where the NFB was not a strong organization.? In
California, the NFB is pretty weak.? In Oregon, neither organization is
particularly strong at the moment.? I maintain my membership in the NFB
because I generally believe in the NFB's approach.? I know for certain
that if I wait for an accommodation from the powers that be, I'll fail.
Now, I could let myself fail and then try to fight for what was denied me,
or I can choose not to let them have the power to impede my progress.? I
have enough experience to know that not only do they tend to drag their
feet at every turn, but that I am better at providing for myself than they
ever have been.
The ACB simply does not reflect those values, so I have always supported
the NFB.? To do otherwise would be like joining the dominant political
party in the area simply because they are more popular.? The party would
surely welcome my support to increase their popularity, but that doesn't
mean they're going to vote the way I want when the bills come their way.
(Of course, I believe that's true of both political parties, but the
analogy stands..)
I know where the NFB will stand on most issues.? Often, I understand and
agree with the Federation's position automatically.? Sometimes, I need to
be convinced it's right.
Sometimes I'm just going to disagree period--as in this case with the
currency thing.? I think we should neither support nor impede the ACB's
legal action.? We should prepare to combat the public misconception that
failure of this legal action means that blind people can't work with money
in the case that the ACB fails.? At the same time, we should prepare a
proposal for the US Treasury Department both on what sort of adaptations
to the currency are pragmatically applicable along with a fiscally
responsible transition plan in the case that the ACB succeeds.
Our stated opinion in the NFB is that there are far more important things
for us to worry about than whether our money is all the same size and
shape or not.? I mostly agree with that.? I think it cannot hurt to be
prepared for the outcome, but beyond that I would rather work on the
bigger issues of employment and education.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 09:35:17AM -0500, David W Bundy wrote:
> Corey,
> The power in both the NFB & ACB? is a collective voice.? When we speak as either NFB or ACB, those to whom we are speaking hear us much more loudly than if we speak as David and Corey & we are much more likely to get what it is we are asking for.? I recall once Dr. Jernagan saying that you should join which ever organization is more likely to get you the results you seek--If you are in an area with a strong NFB presence, then join NFB, but if you live in an area without a strong NFB presence but a Strong ACB? group, then by all means Join ACB--But whatever you choose, join something so your voice will be heard.? In South Carolina, The NFB is a powerbul force with a strong track record while the ACB presence is little more than token.? NFB has two to three hundred at our convention each year while I,m told that ACB's convention averages 15 or 20.? NFB has been successful in passing a number of laws in SC, incleuding establishment of the Commission for the blind & several de!
fe!
> ats of attempts to restructure it out of existance, as well as bills to require that TVI's be trained in Braille to name a few.? The only ACB legislative victory for ACB in SC that I? am aware of, aside from those times when they joined with us for obvious things, was the withdrawal of funding for Newsline.? So clearly, in SC, the wise choice would be NFB.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:31:39 -0800
From: "T. Joseph Carter" < mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net> tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net>
>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
To: NFB Talk Mailing List < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>
Message-ID: < mailto:20071125103139.GD24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125103139.GD24865 at bluecherry.net> 20071125103139.GD24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125103139.GD24865 at bluecherry.net>
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Ray,
Generally I have a hard time faulting anything you contribute to a thread.
Your thoughts are usually well-considered and highly applicable.
In this instance, however, I think this message isn't helpful.? I'm not
saying that you're wrong.? You're probably right, actually.? It just
doesn't help us move forward.? Moving forward is what is most important
here, not getting into a collective peeing contest.
It doesn't matter who did what to whom or when.? It is our obligation as
responsible members of this organization to see that it does not continue
any further.? That is what I am going to do, at least.? I hope that the
majority of us in the Federation can bring ourselves to do that.? I
likewise hope the Council will do likewise.? If they do not, they will
fade into obscurity.? That applies equally to us, though, and I am not
ready to see the NFB fade into obscurity over old grudges.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 11:17:02AM -0600, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> I'm surprised that the ACB got that small victory you mentioned.? That's
> because the ACB hates the NFB.? They're just jealous of us because we
> started Newsline and they didn't.? They can't stand that it's called "NFB
> NewsLine".? Most every time I've come in to contact with anyone from the
> ACB, all I get is hatred and bitterness and sower grapes.? They accuse us of
> being full of hatred; but, the truth of the matter is that it's they who are
> the ones filled with hatred and resentment.? They transmit their hatred from
> one generation to the next; while, on the other hand, we do not.
>
> Sincerely yours,
> The Constantly Barefooted,
> Ray
> Home phone and fax:
> (985)853-0139
> E-mail:
> rforetjratbellsouthdotnet
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
> Blog:
> http://www.raysworld.blogs.com<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com/> www.raysworld.blogs.com<http://www.raysworld.blogs.com/>
> Podcast .rss Feed:
> http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray<http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray> http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray<http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray>
>
> God bless President George W. Bush!
> God bless our troops!
> and God bless America
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David W Bundy" < mailto:sharktrainer13 at pobox.com<mailto:sharktrainer13 at pobox.com> sharktrainer13 at pobox.com<mailto:sharktrainer13 at pobox.com>
>
> To: < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
>
>
> Corey,
> The power in both the NFB & ACB? is a collective voice.? When we speak as
> either NFB or ACB, those to whom we are speaking hear us much more loudly
> than if we speak as David and Corey & we are much more likely to get what it
> is we are asking for.? I recall once Dr. Jernagan saying that you should
> join which ever organization is more likely to get you the results you
> seek--If you are in an area with a strong NFB presence, then join NFB, but
> if you live in an area without a strong NFB presence but a Strong ACB
> group, then by all means Join ACB--But whatever you choose, join something
> so your voice will be heard.? In South Carolina, The NFB is a powerbul force
> with a strong track record while the ACB presence is little more than token.
> NFB has two to three hundred at our convention each year while I,m told that
> ACB's convention averages 15 or 20.? NFB has been successful in passing a
> number of laws in SC, incleuding establishment of the Commission for the
> blind & several defe!
> ats of attempts to restructure it out of existance, as well as bills to
> require that TVI's be trained in Braille to name a few.? The only ACB
> legislative victory for ACB in SC that I? am aware of, aside from those
> times when they joined with us for obvious things, was the withdrawal of
> funding for Newsline.? So clearly, in SC, the wise choice would be NFB.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Corey Cook"< mailto:cooklists at bellsouth.net<mailto:cooklists at bellsouth.net> cooklists at bellsouth.net<mailto:cooklists at bellsouth.net>
>
> Sent: 11/23/07 6:04:21 AM
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List"< mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>
> Subject: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
>
> Good morning,
>
> I write this email in hopes to get answers and not make anyone mad with me.
>
> As a younger blind person in my 20s, taking steps to enter the rehab field
>
> to work with and help other Blind people.
>
> I have to ask why should I care about the NFB or ACB?
>
> I have been lerking on these lists for a while now, and I am on some NFB
>
> lists, as I have time with my job and other pursuits I read both the Braille
>
> Monitor, and the Braille Forum.
>
> I am trying to become better informed about both groups in hopes that I will
>
> join one of them.
>
> The thing I keep coming back to is this, for all the good that is happening
>
> in both groups, there is so much fighting and accusing.
>
> It seems that as Blind people we are at war.
>
> I am getting the feeling that both groups in there own way are allowing
>
> politics to get in the way of the greater good, witch I thought was to
>
> improve the lives of the Blind, and give tomorrow's Blind a brighter future.
>
> As someone who is not currently a member of iether group I must say this is
>
> serving to scare me away.
>
> So here is my question witch I would love to be answered with out bashing
>
> anyone, why should I care?
>
> Why should I give my money and time to either group?
>
> What good can I accomplish by choosing to join the ACB or the NFB?
>
> Think about it, you might just get a new member out of this email.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Corey M. Cook
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
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>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
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>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:39:12 -0800
From: "T. Joseph Carter" < mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net> tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net>
>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
To: NFB Talk Mailing List < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>
Message-ID: < mailto:20071125103912.GE24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125103912.GE24865 at bluecherry.net> 20071125103912.GE24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125103912.GE24865 at bluecherry.net>
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
David, you point out that their membership is waning.? The problem is that
ours is as well.? Maybe not as rapidly or as remarkably, but particularly
in Western states (Colorado excepted), we really don't have the kind of
support we once had.
I think your assessment of the reaction younger people have to the ACB
applies also to the NFB.? A lot of people my age and younger just do not
want to get into this big battle over who did what to whom and when.? I
think Corey was expressing precisely that frustration.
Granted that is not the only thing affecting our ability to attract the
younger generations.? We talked about the problem just a few weeks ago
that people today seem to be more interested in what we can do for them
than what they can do with us.
Fewer today are willing to become active, plain and simple.? Neither we
nor the ACB can afford to scare away potential new members by continuing
this feud.? We're modern-day Hatfields and McCoys here, and nobody really
cares about the pig or the hen anymore.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 12:05:11PM -0600, David Andrews wrote:
> The other thing I would say is that the organization is slowly
> dying.? I wasn't able to make it to NFB convention this year, and
> since ACB was here, I went over to check it out.? One of the first
> things you notice, after seeing how small their convention is, is
> that there are very few young people or kids there.? It is the older
> persons, the NFB haters, who are there.? They aren't attracting new
> people in large numbers because younger people don't care what
> happened between them and us in the past.? Unless they get some new
> dynamic leadership soon, then they will eventually go away.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:51:27 -0800
From: "T. Joseph Carter" < mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net> tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net>
>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fw: Update on Currency case
To: NFB Talk Mailing List < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>
Message-ID: < mailto:20071125105127.GF24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125105127.GF24865 at bluecherry.net> 20071125105127.GF24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125105127.GF24865 at bluecherry.net>
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mike,
That's all the more reason why I believe we should stay out of it.? Let
the fallout be theirs, for good or ill.? If they fail now, they will say
it is because we interfered.? I can't rightly say they would be wrong if
that were the case.
If it does have further negative outcomes for us, then we of the
Federation may well have contributed to them by disputing accuracy of the
facts found by lower courts.? Do we really want to be responsible for
that?
As I say elsewhere in this thread, it would have been best for us to
prepare for them to win or to lose this case.
For the record, I expect the supreme court would likely decline to hear
this case.? If they did hear it, I do doubt that the ACB would win, but I
bet we'll disagree on which justices would vote for and against it.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 04:00:29PM -0800, Mike Freeman wrote:
> Joe:
> ?
> Although I support NFB's position on accessible currency -- that it would be nice to have but not having it isn't discriminatory -- I wrote the last resolution on the subject for an entirely different reason: Chris Gray has pledged that if ACB loses in the Court of Appeals that it will take the case all the way to the Supreme Court. Given the current Supreme Court (whatever one thinks of its philosophy), can anyone in his/her right mind entertain the notion that ACB would win? If they can, I've got a fine bridge in Brooklyn I would be more than happy to sell them at a bargain price.
> ?
> So let's assume that ACB takes this to the Supreme Court and loses. My fear is that, as has so often happened in cases brought by ACB involving blind vendors, the ruling will be broader than one simply treating of the specific currency issue. I am quite fearful that many of our Section 504 protections will be dismantled through applying a "strict constructionist" template to it -- something I consider highly likely in this case. Remember, ADA does not apply to Federal entities; Section 504 of the Rehab Act as Amended does.
> ?
> As I've said on some other lists including the list of our own Council affiliate, I believe that this suit is in the nature of shooting a hybernating bear with an arrow. I'd hate to be there when she comes out of that den!
> ?
> Mike
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:54:02 -0800
From: "T. Joseph Carter" < mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net> tjcarter at bluecherry.net<mailto:tjcarter at bluecherry.net>
>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] currency case
To: NFB Talk Mailing List < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>
Message-ID: < mailto:20071125105402.GG24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125105402.GG24865 at bluecherry.net> 20071125105402.GG24865 at bluecherry.net<mailto:20071125105402.GG24865 at bluecherry.net>
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I'm sure you could get a plastic sizing card from your local bank free of
charge, courtesy of the government, as happens in other countries.
On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 07:37:43AM -0600, Munchie Lady wrote:
>?? My question would be, would the differences in sizes be enough that a
> person would be able to tell what the bill was if they didn't have something
> to compare it to?
>
> Marsha
------------------------------
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-------------- next part --------------
Ray,
We all feel this way when a new administration comes in such as here in NY, I believe that we have a great new governor even though his popular vote is down, but that is from the sighted world in NY, not for the blind and visually impaired as well as other disabilities.
My point is we expect those in higher office to do better than us and give examples of how things are done, but again we are all human we need help, and we should not be afraid to ask for it. It was like my husband being at his first state convention here this past month, my husband is sighted, and he wanted to help everyone, not that he feels sorry in fact it is the opposite, but he is just a gentlemen all together, always holds a door for a lady, etc. But he was told many times, just ask and never assume, and we all know what happens when we assume anything.
As I had mentioned before, either you are a republican or a democrat, and let me just say we run our federation better than our elected officials do it.
but that is the nature of the beast.
we can live in a dream state of mind, we know the realities. we just have to do our best and that is it.
Cheryl Echevarria
NFB of NY/Long Island Chapter
skype: angeldn38
windows live messenger: mailto:cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
----- Original Message -----
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Sent:
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Subject:
nfb-talk Digest, Vol 18, Issue 94
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: NFB and ACB (Ray Foret Jr)
2. Re: conflict within the nfb itself (richard payne)
3. Re: conflict within the nfb itself (Ray Foret Jr)
4. Re: conflict within the nfb itself (Cindy Handel)
5. trying to get a chapter going (cheryl echevarria)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 06:51:38 -0600
From: "Ray Foret Jr" < mailto:rforetjr at bellsouth.net rforetjr at bellsouth.net
>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>
Message-ID: < mailto:002301c82f61$ebb85b00$6101a8c0 at dell 002301c82f61$ebb85b00$6101a8c0 at dell
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Neither do I anymore. His messages were not to be seen anywhere; then, for
a while, the text showed up in the to field, and now, not at all. Don, what
ever program you are using, it's just not translating well. Can you not
just install and use Outlook Express or something? This is getting a little
out of hand.
Sincerely yours,
The Constantly Barefooted,
Ray
Home phone and fax:
(985)853-0139
E-mail:
rforetjratbellsouthdotnet
Skype Name:
barefootedray
Blog:
http://www.raysworld.blogs.com www.raysworld.blogs.com
Podcast .rss Feed:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray http://feeds.feedburner.com/worldofray
God bless President George W. Bush!
God bless our troops!
and God bless America
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherri" < mailto:flmom2006 at gmail.com flmom2006 at gmail.com
>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 3:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
Okay, I still don't see Don's messages anywhere within his message.
Sherri
----- Original Message -----
From: "don nepple" < mailto:dnepple at hotmail.com dnepple at hotmail.com
>
To: < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>; <" < mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>"@www.nfbnet.org nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>"@www.nfbnet.org
>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB
> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:05:11 -0600> To: mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> From:
> mailto:dandrews at visi.com dandrews at visi.com
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] NFB and ACB> > Ray, I would
> generally agree with you except I might not put it so > strongly. Hatred
> is a pretty strong word, but there is something there.> > You have to
> remember that the ACB split off from the NFB, and the > major thing they
> have to justify their existence is to be different > from the NFB. Take
> that away and it is hard to justify your > existence since they don't
> really seem to have a unifying philosophy.> > The other thing I would say
> is that the organization is slowly > dying. I wasn't able to make it to
> NFB convention this year, and > since ACB was here, I went over to check
> it out. One of the first > things you notice, after seeing how small their
> convention is, is > that there are very few young people or kids there. It
> is the older > persons, the NFB haters, who are there. They aren't
> attracting new > people in large numbers because younger people don't care
> what > happened between them and us in the past. Unless they get some new
> > dynamic leadership soon, then they will eventually go away.> > Dave> >
> At 11:17 AM 11/24/2007, you wrote:> >I'm surprised