[nfb-talk] issue with job and philosophy

Wed Nov 29 18:48:56 CST 2006

Except that many sighted persons lose jobs becaus they don't have the talent 
to handle certain kinds of software. Too often, we assume that all sighted 
persons can do a thing when all the blind cannot. That is just as fallacious 
as to say that blindness is a tragedy.

That is not to say that I do not worry that we may be aced out of certain 
job categories. I worry a lot, paticularly as the world depends more and 
more upon electronic access. But that has always been the case; many people 
can no longer hold jobs they once held because said jobs require more or 
different education, for example. Blindness isn't unique. We just notice it 
because we end up on the short end of the stick.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Westbrook" <westbc at clw19.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] issue with job and philosophy

The problem I see with your statements is they lend themselves to
polarization.  That is, blindness is either seen as a physical nuisance or a
tragedy, neither of which I think are true.  To me, it is just as wrong to
call blindness a physical nuisance as if it were an itch that could be
scratched away or a sore toe as it is to call blindness a life ending
tragedy.  I have a real hard time with the notion that software
inaccessibility that could potentially cause the loss of jobs (I'm not
referring to myself here but people in general) could be seen as a nuisance
.  If we take that attitude, there won't be many jobs left that a blind
person can perform independently in 50 years.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] issue with job and philosophy

> Antonio:
>
> There's a fallacy in your argument: you presume that bindness is a
> *unique*
> nuisance; it is not. The point of NFB philosophy is that blindness is the
> same sort of nuisance or inconvenience as are often race, religion or
> national origin or any number of other characteristics. For better or
> worse,
> all can be nuisances or inconveniences at times (try being a Christian in
> Iran, for example or being six-foot-seven on a submarine). But blindness
> is
> not a tragedy with a special reserved category for wailing and nashing of
> teeth.
>
> There are times when blindness can be damned inconvenient; software
> inaccessibility is one of these. But one doesn't need to make a Federal
> case
> out of it. But when it impacts something one wishes to do adversely, that
> inconvenience can loom large.
>
> Let's keep our logic straight, however.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "ANTONIO GUIMARAES" <amguima at verizon.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] issue with job and philosophy
>
>
> Hi Chriss,
>
> I don't agree 100 percent with the notion that blindness is a mere
> nuisence.
> That to me is understating the fact.
>
> I have been nuisenced out of 2 grand for the purchase of a screen reader,
> and a scanning package, $450 for a fully talking dictionary, 5 grand for a
> note-taker/PDA, and I have been nuicenced out of possibilities for
> promotions at my job.
>
> I am nuisenced all the time when going out to a club, as I can not see
> others, and know if they are members of the opposit sex, and weather they
> are acompanied.
>
> Blind people are often nuisenced for having to leave everything behind to
> go
> away for guide dog training for about a month every 10 years.
>
> I can cite several other instances of nuicences, but this meticulous
> exercize wouln't do me much good, at least for now.
>
> NFB philosophy is changing, and federationists of all tipes are giving
> more
> waight to access issues. Any person reading through our current Convention
> resolutions will note this fact.
>
> Blind students wishing to take AP exams are nuisenced by the inadequate
> availability of brailled training materials, (Res2006-03)-
>
> Blind pupils are nuisenced by the lack of braille instruction, and often
> fall into illiteracy, (Res2006-01)
>
> Blind workers are frequently nuisenced in their jobs, because they can
> earn
> less than minimal wage, (Res2006-04).
>
> These are just some examples of how our philosophy has been flexible, due
> to
> technological, and socio-economic barriers.
>
> And what about the dictionary definition of nuicence?
>
> Acording to my Franklin Master, nuisance is an anoying or troublesome
> person
> or thing.
>
> Is blindness simply an anoying fact, or is it troublesome at times? Is it
> a
> tragedy, or something that can be overcome?
>
> Sincerely yours
> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chris Westbrook" <westbc at clw19.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 11:38 PM
> Subject: [nfb-talk] issue with job and philosophy
>
>
> I am having an issue with my new job and I was wondering if any of you had
> suggestions.  There are a lot of things I can do well, but sometimes I am
> put on lower priority projects because of my inability to affectively
> create
> reports in Microsoft access.  I find Jaws and Window Eye' support for
> Access
> sorely lacking for anyone who wants to do anything useful with it.  I know
> some of you are saying well use a reader, and I have certainly thought
> about
> that, but I do not have enough work to keep a reader busy for eight or
> even
> four hours a day, and many times these projects come up suddenly and need
> to
> be done yesterday so I can't just recruit a reader whenever I need one or
> push my work to a certain time when a reader could be scheduled.  Other
> coworkers can't be of much help either because they are working on other
> tasks.  I think this issue brings up two points.  One, have you found any
> techniques for dealing with this problem, but I think this also raises a
> philosophical question which I think is probably more appropriate for this
> list.  I have always grown up with the idea that blindness can really be
> reduced to the level of a physical nuisance given the proper training and
> opportunity.  I feel that I have pretty decent blindness skills,
> especially
> related to computers, and I am given all the opportunity in the world.  I
> have the latest version of Jaws and Window Eyes at my disposal as well as
> a
> 70 cell Braille display and good Braille literacy  skills.  Yet there are
> certain things I just can't do not because of my lack of intelligence but
> due to accessibility.  Sometimes I fear Federationists don't really
> understand how important accessibility is.  It's easy to say "use a
> reader"
> when you're dealing with reading the occasional mail or using the
> occasional
> visual verification or identifying the occasional bit of paper money, etc.
> but if Jaws went away tomorrow and you were told to just use a reader to
> access your computer would you do it?  I know some of you will probably
> say
> "oh well we could make our own solutions if Jaws were to disappear" but
> I'm
> not sure if you realize how much cooperation is required from Microsoft
> and
> other companies to have what little accessibility we do have and how
> easily
> it could be taken away.  I've been thinking of this issue a lot because it
> really frustrates me when I am not able to help with a problem at work due
> to inaccessible Microsoft software that probably cannot be scripted for.
> What is sometimes even more frustrating is when I mention my concerns to
> my
> friend who is also pretty much my boss and the one who brought me to the
> company, he turns my  Federationist philosophy right back on me by
> commenting that I have said repeatedly that I don't want to be treated
> differently from other people, which is of course true.  I don't really
> have
> a good response for that one.  While there is still plenty of stuff I can
> do
> and I am not in danger of losing my job, and I realize I might not have
> been
> able to do all those things fully sighted, it really bugs me that I can't
> contribute as much as I feel I could.  IF I were sighted I would be
> expected
> to learn to do these things if I had a gap in my skill set.  Frankly I
> consider that more than just a nuisance.  I'm curious to hear what you
> guys
> think.
>
>
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