[nfb-talk] Accessible money and employment
Brian Miller
brian-r-miller at uiowa.edu
Sun Dec 17 21:05:55 CST 2006
Hi Peter,
Interesting -- as I said, I assumed there probably were some totally blind
guys out there doing it, but I simply haven't seen it yet (and I've known
many vendors, and been to many vending sites).
May I ask how you distinguish the bills as a totally blind person, using no
sighted assistance? I find this a bit remarkable, frankly, but I'm keen to
hear your secrets!
Thanks,
Brian M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
To: <william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>; "NFB Talk Mailing List"
<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Accessible money and employment
> Good evening everyone,
>
> For all practical purposes I'm totally blind and have handled cash in
> vending facilities and in other situations where cash transactions were
done
> as a matter of business. I handled the transactions independently and
> without the need for sighted assistance, money identifiers, or redesigned
> currency to enable me to distinguish denominations.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wm. Ritchhart" <william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Accessible money and employment
>
>
> Brian,
>
> I know of several totally blind vendors who have over-the-counter sites.
> In only one case did one vendor have a totally blind employee use a
> money identifier. The reason for that requirement had more to do with
> the employees skills, then his blindness. Most of the blind vendors I
> know handle their own money, even if they do have sighted or partially
> sighted employees.
>
>
> William
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Brian Miller
> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 8:37 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: [nfb-talk] Accessible money and employment
>
> It seems to me the trick is to balance the potential of increased job
> opportunities afforded the blind with accessible currency verses any
> negative impact on employment because of either a backlash effect or
> diminished expectations of blind capabilities.
>
> In the former case, I think there are definitely a small number of jobs
> that
> would become easier for the blind to do if currency were more accessible
> without the use of expensive and cumbersome money identifiers. Frankly,
> I've never seen a totally blind person handling money behind the check
> out
> counter. In the case of vendors, the vendor either has enough sight to
> see
> the bills, or they have sighted staff handling the money. (I'm sure
> there
> are exceptions, I just haven't seen it yet).
>
> In the case of the latter catagory, this is much harder to measure. The
> fact is, employment for the blind is bad, and has been bad for decades.
> Almost nothing we do seems to budge the numbers, at least in the short
> or
> medium term.
>
> So where does that leave us? I think in the end, accessible money won't
> make a big difference either way. It is more of a consumer confidence
> issue, and for that, it seems to not really be worth all the furor.
>
> Brian Miller
>
> From: "Kelly Ford" <kelly at kellford.com>
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British Money:
>
>
> > Peter,
> >
> > Whatever one's position is on the accessible currency issue, you seem
> to
> > state a lot of opinions as facts and this reply still doesn't support
> your
> > assertion that the state of accessible currency in the UK contributes
> in
> any
> > fashion to the state of employment. My question was and is for you to
> > support this opinion with fact if you have such supporting
> information.
> >
> > My own opinion, without any support for such beyond personal
> experience
> and
> > discussion with a few people from various nations, is that accessible
> > currency has little to no impact on employment. But I strongly doubt
> that
> > it, currency accessibility, has lead to decreased employment in the
> > blindness community in those nations where the currency is more
> > identifiable.
> >
> > I'd like to understand how you are establishing your claim for cause
> and
> > effect.
> >
> > Kelly
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Peter Donahue
> > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 1:33 PM
> > To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British Money:
> >
> > Hello Kelly and listers,
> >
> > The fact that these countries do not have strong organizations of the
> blind
> > as we do here and their lack of the kinds of programs and services for
> the
> > blind including research centers like our Jernigan Institute in favor
> of
> > allowing governments and what agencies for the blind that exist in
> these
> > countries to set the agenda for their blind populations rather than
> the
> > blind of the UK and other countries to demand a voice in their affairs
> is
> > proof enough that the assumption we need differing paper currency
> rather
> > than jobs to permit us to earn it are enough to drive up the
> unemployment
> > rates of the blind in these countries. No research studies necessary.
> >
> > Peter Donahue
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kelly Ford" <kelly at kellford.com>
> > To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 3:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British Money:
> >
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > Please provide some supporting documentation for your assertion that
> > currency of various sizes in the UK contributes to a higher
> unemployment
> > rate. What study has documented this cause and effect?
> >
> > Kelly
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Peter Donahue
> > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 11:12 AM
> > To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British Money:
> >
> > Good afternoon everyone,
> >
> > Yup the British have their currency in different sizes and colors
> and
> > many other so-called, "Helps for the blind." I have personally had
> > correspondence with blind people in the UK some of whom are very
> frustrated
> > with the lack of quality services for the blind, and the lack of
> consumerism
> > among the UK blind. Yes you'll find British currency that can be
> > distinguished by a blind person independently at the expense of a
> higher
> > unemployment rate among the UK blind. They have audible traffic
> signals at
> > the expense of not having adult orientation and adjustment centers
> like
> > those operated by the NFB and some state programs for the blind in the
> U.S.
> > They have detectable warnings at curbs, along train platform edges,
> and in
> > other places, but must contend with a very repressive guide dog
> program
> that
> > among other things still believes that guide dogs cannot travel in an
> > airplane cabin for longer than 5 hours despite the fact that several
> guide
> > dog teams have flown to the UK from New Zealand, Australia, and
> several
> > destinations and both have traveled in the cabin without incident.
> They
> > refused to replace a guide dog for a lady whose dog recently retired.
> This
> > woman needs to use escalators to get too and from work in London. The
> Guide
> > Dogs for the Blind Association refused to give her a replacement guide
> dog
> > unless she agreed not to use it on escalators; something guide dog
> users
> in
> > other countries do routinely. I know because I've had personal
> > correspondence with this woman via E--mail and on the phone to discuss
> this
> > issue. We hoped to help her obtain her next dog from a non-UK guide
> dog
> > program that trains its dogs to work on escalators, but she has run in
> to
> > difficulty with guide dog organizations here and in Europe who refused
> to
> > place one of their dogs in the UK when at least one of our guide dog
> > programs has successfully placed dogs in Hawaii and Singapore despite
> the
> > strict importation requirements.
> >
> > The British blind have identifiable currency, but they do not have
> Braille
> > production facilities like those here in the U.S.
> >
> > Many of the things mentioned above are also true of many other
> countries
> > throughout the World. Yes they have all of the so-called, "Bells and
> > whistles" that supposedly make the blind independent, but you won't
> find
> > national research and training institutes like our NFB Jernigan
> Institute
> > that is operated by the blind for the blind in any of these countries.
> And
> > we're spending our time crying over the design of our currency when in
> > reality we're rich compared to the blind of other nations. I hope that
> > during this holiday season we'll take the time to count our blessings
> and
> be
> > thankful for what we do have. Most importantly a strong organization
> of
> the
> > blind whose leaders from Dr. TenBroek to the present understand what
> we as
> > blind people truly need, and what we do not. Having currency we can
> identify
> > independently would be nice, but not at the terrible price the blind
> of
> > other countries have paid for such, "Accommodations." I personally
> wish
> this
> > point would be stressed more when our national office and affiliates
> discuss
> > this issue in news stories and with others. That's quite a blessing.
> >
> > Peter Donahue
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Corey Cook" <ccook55 at sc.rr.com>
> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:08 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British Money:
> >
> >
> > this is interesting.
> > thanks
> > Corey Cook
> > ccook55 at sc.rr.com
> > MSN; romans815 at earthlink.net
> > AIM: goldadore922
> > BLOG: http://www.xanga.com/ciu_nice_guy
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kenneth Chrane" <kenneth.chrane at verizon.net>
> > To: "Multiple recipients of NFBnet NFB-Talk Mailing List"
> > <NFB-Talk at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: <CSDB-ALUMNI at googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:25 PM
> > Subject: [nfb-talk] British Money:
> >
> >
> > Each British banknote is approximately 7mm (3 tenths of an inch)
> longer
> and
> > 5mm (2 tenths of an
> > inch) wider than it's denominational predecessor.
> >
> > Five pound note, blue
> > 135mm x 70mm (approx.)
> > Ten pound note, brown
> > 142mm x 75mm (approx.)
> > Twenty pound note, purple
> > 149mm x 80mm (approx.)
> > Fifty pound note, red.
> > 156mm x 85mm (approx.)
> >
> > & The designs on each note feature historical characters as follows:
> >
> > £5 - Elizabeth Fry - The images on the back of the note are related to
> the
> > life and work of this
> > social reformer. The main illustration shows Elizabeth Fry reading to
> > prisoners at Newgate. In
> > recognition of her work she was awarded the key to the prison and this
> is
> > used in the design of the
> > banknote.
> >
> > £10 - Charles Darwin - As a young man Darwin was employed as the
> naturalist
> > on board the ship HMS
> > Beagle an illustration of which is depicted on the back of the note.
> Also
> > pictured is an
> > illustration of Darwin 's own magnifying lens and the flora and fauna
> that
> > he may have come across
> > on his travels.
> >
> > £20 - Sir Edward Elgar - Elgar spent the majority of his life in
> Worcester
> > and the first performance
> > of the full version of his Enigma Variations took place in Worcester
> > Cathedral at the 1899 Three
> > Choirs Festival. An image of the west face of the cathedral is
> included in
> > the design on the back of
> > the note.
> >
> > £50 - Sir John Houblon - Houblon was the first Governor of the Bank of
> > England and the current £50
> > note was issued during the same year (1994) as the Bank celebrated its
> 300th
> > anniversary. The design
> > on the back of the note includes an image of Houblon's house in
> Threadneedle
> > Street on the site of
> > the Bank's present building.
> >
> > (from the Bank of England website).
> >
> > Naturally all notes feature Her Royal Highness Queen Elizabeth II and
> also
> > have a metallic thread as
> > well as a hologram. The £50 note has a foil patch on the front near
> the
> > portrait of the queen,
> > showing a reflective rose and medallion.
> >
> > Hope this is of interest.
> >
> > I couldn't believe the American money last time I was over there, it's
> > surely time they did
> > something to improve it. Last time I was in the states if it wasn't
> for
> > the honesty of one teller
> > in an NC shopping mall, I would have accidentally paid 101 dollars
> instead
> > of 6 dollars, for 2 ice
> > creams! And by the way I'm a sighted partner with 20/20 vision.
> >
> > Our smallest note, the fiver, it currently worth about 9 dollars 77
> cents,
> > and with the US dollar
> > only worth about 51 pence here, it's tempting to say the dollar bill
> should
> > be scrapped! In the
> > British experience when a new note or coin is introduced it has always
> been
> > done gradually, with
> > advance notice and the old coin or note being still in circulation
> > simultaneously with the new,
> > whilst the old one is gradually phased out. This happened with the
> half
> > pence coin (now gone) as
> > well as the old large ten pence pieces (now gone) and the old pound
> note
> > (now also gone). Doing it
> > that way allowed time for people to get used to the change and for
> vending
> > machines etc, to catch
> > up.
> >
> > Best to all and my compliments of the Christmas Season, to all at the
> peeps.
> > And whether your
> > money is accessible or not, I hope you all get lots of it!!
> >
> > Leon Gilbert (UK). A K A "Search Engine" on the peeps.
> > (Personal email lwg at blueyonder.co.uk )
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter Beasley" <peter at tafn.org.uk>
> > To: <peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: [peeps-talk] Accessible Money
> >
> >
> > I didn't say in my original post, but as well as being different
> sizes,
> they
> > are also different
> > colours. The narrowest note is the £5 and the widest the £50. You
> can
> > distinguish the different
> > widths by placing a note between your index and middle finger.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: delma bliss
> > To: peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [peeps-talk] Accessible Money
> >
> >
> > dear peter
> > can you tell me what your money is like
> > what is the smallest to the largest size bills
> > are they more then 1 color?
> > the reason i am asking
> > i hope to be moving to the u k
> > and it would be nice to no what bills are whitch.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jennifer Thomas" <jen at nc.rr.com>
> > To: <peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:02 AM
> > Subject: Re: [peeps-talk] Accessible Money
> >
> > > sure wish we had that set up, peter.
> > > At 11:46 AM 12/14/2006, you wrote:
> > >
> > >>Here in the UK, our bank notes vary in widthwith
> > >>the £5 being the narrowest and the £50 the widest.
> > >>----- Original Message -----
> > >>From: tiffany black
> > >>To:
> <mailto:peeps-talk%40yahoogroups.com>peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com
> > >>Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:30 PM
> > >>Subject: RE: [peeps-talk] Accessible Money
> > >>
> > >>Good to know Jennifer. Thanks.
> > >>
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>From:
> > >><mailto:peeps-talk%40yahoogroups.com>peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com
> > >>[mailto:peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com] On
> > >>Behalf Of Jennifer Thomas
> > >>Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:37 AM
> > >>To:
> <mailto:peeps-talk%40yahoogroups.com>peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com
> > >>Subject: [peeps-talk] Accessible Money
> > >>
> > >>AMERICAN COUNCIL OF THE BLIND (ACB) PUBLIC RELATIONS
> > >>COMMITTEE
> > >>1055 E. Flamingo Rd., Ste. 404, Las Vegas, NV 89119
> > >>(702) 735-2484 Fax (702) 733-7570
> > >><mailto:rsanders%40acb.org>rsanders at acb.org
> > >>**********************************************************
> > >>
> > >>December 12, 2006
> > >>
> > >>American Council of the Blind Vows to Continue the Battle for
> Accessible
> > >>Paper Currency in the DC Circuit Court of Appeals
> > >>
> > >>For Immediate Release
> > >>
> > >>For additional information contact Ralph Sanders.
> > >>
> > >>The American Council of the Blind (ACB) has made clear its
> intention
> to
> > >>continue the court battle for accessible currency pursuant to the
> ruling
> > >>in
> > >>its favor by the Federal District Court in the District of
> Columbia
> and
> > >>despite opposition by the Bush Administration.
> > >>
> > >>"We anticipated that the U.S. Department of the Treasury would
> appeal
> > the
> > >>DC
> > >>District Court ruling and were not surprised when The Department
> of
> > >>Justice
> > >>filed an appeal today on behalf of Treasury," said Christopher
> Gray,
> > ACB's
> > >>President.
> > >>
> > >>"Treasury complains about the costs of making currency
> accessible,"
> Gray
> > >>added "but they are not at all concerned about the cost of
> litigation."
> > >>
> > >>"We are committed to this fight even to the Supreme Court, if
> necessary,
> > >>because it is the right thing to do, and because it is the law of
> the
> > >>United
> > >>States," Gray said.
> > >>
> > >>Melanie Brunson, American Council of the Blind's Executive
> Director
> was
> > >>not
> > >>immediately available for comment. She is finishing up a week long
> trip
> > to
> > >>Tokyo, Japan where she was a featured speaker addressing an
> > international
> > >>conference on accessibility to audio and video programming for the
> blind
> > >>and
> > >>visually impaired.
> > >>
> > >>Estimates of the numbers of blind and visually impaired Americans
> who
> > will
> > >>benefit from accessible paper currency range from 3.3 million to
> 10
> > >>million.
> > >>This estimate, however, does not take into account the tens of
> millions
> > of
> > >>Americans who are beginning to experience sight loss because of
> age.
> The
> > >>senior citizens are often not included in the visually impaired
> > category,
> > >>but many of them express problems with reading currency in dim
> light,
> > >>particularly at night in gas stations and convenience stores.
> > >>
> > >>"It seems to us that the argument of those groups opposing our
> position
> > is
> > >>poorly founded since no specific method of making the currency
> > accessible
> > >>has been put forward," Gray said. "Estimates of potential costs to
> > vending
> > >>machine operators and to cash register changes are simply
> unfounded at
> > >>this
> > >>time."
> > >>
> > >>In reaching his ruling in the Federal District Court, Judge James
> > >>Robertson
> > >>noted that of 180 nations printing paper currency only the United
> States
> > >>makes no effort to make the currency accessible without vision.
> > >>
> > >>As for small elements within the blind community who have voiced
> > >>opposition
> > >>Gray said that it is hard to find unanimity within any sector of
> the
> > >>American society on any issue. "The blind community would not have
> > >>succeeded
> > >>in moving into active participation in any sector of our society
> without
> > >>steps to make material generated in print accessible in some way
> from
> > >>printed books to computer screens," Gray said.
> > >>"We still have a long way to go to level the playing field and the
> > >>currency
> > >>suit is merely one effort among many sponsored by the American
> Council
> > of
> > >>the Blind," he said.
> > >>
> > >>The American Council of the Blind is the largest consumer based
> > >>organization
> > >>of blind and visually impaired Americans advocating for the rights
> of
> > >>blind
> > >>Americans. Organized through more than seventy affiliates in every
> > >>community
> > >>in the United States, the organization is dedicated to making it
> > possible
> > >>for blind and visually impaired Americans to participate fully in
> every
> > >>aspect of American society. For more information on the American
> Council
> > >>of
> > >>the Blind, and the issues it supports visit www.acb.org.
> > >>
> > >>For The People provides this list as a service and does not
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