[nfb-talk] Accessible money and employment
Peter Donahue
pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net
Sun Dec 17 20:26:28 CST 2006
Good evening everyone,
For all practical purposes I'm totally blind and have handled cash in
vending facilities and in other situations where cash transactions were done
as a matter of business. I handled the transactions independently and
without the need for sighted assistance, money identifiers, or redesigned
currency to enable me to distinguish denominations.
Peter Donahue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wm. Ritchhart" <william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Accessible money and employment
Brian,
I know of several totally blind vendors who have over-the-counter sites.
In only one case did one vendor have a totally blind employee use a
money identifier. The reason for that requirement had more to do with
the employees skills, then his blindness. Most of the blind vendors I
know handle their own money, even if they do have sighted or partially
sighted employees.
William
-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Brian Miller
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 8:37 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: [nfb-talk] Accessible money and employment
It seems to me the trick is to balance the potential of increased job
opportunities afforded the blind with accessible currency verses any
negative impact on employment because of either a backlash effect or
diminished expectations of blind capabilities.
In the former case, I think there are definitely a small number of jobs
that
would become easier for the blind to do if currency were more accessible
without the use of expensive and cumbersome money identifiers. Frankly,
I've never seen a totally blind person handling money behind the check
out
counter. In the case of vendors, the vendor either has enough sight to
see
the bills, or they have sighted staff handling the money. (I'm sure
there
are exceptions, I just haven't seen it yet).
In the case of the latter catagory, this is much harder to measure. The
fact is, employment for the blind is bad, and has been bad for decades.
Almost nothing we do seems to budge the numbers, at least in the short
or
medium term.
So where does that leave us? I think in the end, accessible money won't
make a big difference either way. It is more of a consumer confidence
issue, and for that, it seems to not really be worth all the furor.
Brian Miller
From: "Kelly Ford" <kelly at kellford.com>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British Money:
> Peter,
>
> Whatever one's position is on the accessible currency issue, you seem
to
> state a lot of opinions as facts and this reply still doesn't support
your
> assertion that the state of accessible currency in the UK contributes
in
any
> fashion to the state of employment. My question was and is for you to
> support this opinion with fact if you have such supporting
information.
>
> My own opinion, without any support for such beyond personal
experience
and
> discussion with a few people from various nations, is that accessible
> currency has little to no impact on employment. But I strongly doubt
that
> it, currency accessibility, has lead to decreased employment in the
> blindness community in those nations where the currency is more
> identifiable.
>
> I'd like to understand how you are establishing your claim for cause
and
> effect.
>
> Kelly
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> Behalf Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 1:33 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British Money:
>
> Hello Kelly and listers,
>
> The fact that these countries do not have strong organizations of the
blind
> as we do here and their lack of the kinds of programs and services for
the
> blind including research centers like our Jernigan Institute in favor
of
> allowing governments and what agencies for the blind that exist in
these
> countries to set the agenda for their blind populations rather than
the
> blind of the UK and other countries to demand a voice in their affairs
is
> proof enough that the assumption we need differing paper currency
rather
> than jobs to permit us to earn it are enough to drive up the
unemployment
> rates of the blind in these countries. No research studies necessary.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kelly Ford" <kelly at kellford.com>
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 3:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British Money:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Please provide some supporting documentation for your assertion that
> currency of various sizes in the UK contributes to a higher
unemployment
> rate. What study has documented this cause and effect?
>
> Kelly
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> Behalf Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 11:12 AM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British Money:
>
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
> Yup the British have their currency in different sizes and colors
and
> many other so-called, "Helps for the blind." I have personally had
> correspondence with blind people in the UK some of whom are very
frustrated
> with the lack of quality services for the blind, and the lack of
consumerism
> among the UK blind. Yes you'll find British currency that can be
> distinguished by a blind person independently at the expense of a
higher
> unemployment rate among the UK blind. They have audible traffic
signals at
> the expense of not having adult orientation and adjustment centers
like
> those operated by the NFB and some state programs for the blind in the
U.S.
> They have detectable warnings at curbs, along train platform edges,
and in
> other places, but must contend with a very repressive guide dog
program
that
> among other things still believes that guide dogs cannot travel in an
> airplane cabin for longer than 5 hours despite the fact that several
guide
> dog teams have flown to the UK from New Zealand, Australia, and
several
> destinations and both have traveled in the cabin without incident.
They
> refused to replace a guide dog for a lady whose dog recently retired.
This
> woman needs to use escalators to get too and from work in London. The
Guide
> Dogs for the Blind Association refused to give her a replacement guide
dog
> unless she agreed not to use it on escalators; something guide dog
users
in
> other countries do routinely. I know because I've had personal
> correspondence with this woman via E--mail and on the phone to discuss
this
> issue. We hoped to help her obtain her next dog from a non-UK guide
dog
> program that trains its dogs to work on escalators, but she has run in
to
> difficulty with guide dog organizations here and in Europe who refused
to
> place one of their dogs in the UK when at least one of our guide dog
> programs has successfully placed dogs in Hawaii and Singapore despite
the
> strict importation requirements.
>
> The British blind have identifiable currency, but they do not have
Braille
> production facilities like those here in the U.S.
>
> Many of the things mentioned above are also true of many other
countries
> throughout the World. Yes they have all of the so-called, "Bells and
> whistles" that supposedly make the blind independent, but you won't
find
> national research and training institutes like our NFB Jernigan
Institute
> that is operated by the blind for the blind in any of these countries.
And
> we're spending our time crying over the design of our currency when in
> reality we're rich compared to the blind of other nations. I hope that
> during this holiday season we'll take the time to count our blessings
and
be
> thankful for what we do have. Most importantly a strong organization
of
the
> blind whose leaders from Dr. TenBroek to the present understand what
we as
> blind people truly need, and what we do not. Having currency we can
identify
> independently would be nice, but not at the terrible price the blind
of
> other countries have paid for such, "Accommodations." I personally
wish
this
> point would be stressed more when our national office and affiliates
discuss
> this issue in news stories and with others. That's quite a blessing.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Corey Cook" <ccook55 at sc.rr.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] British Money:
>
>
> this is interesting.
> thanks
> Corey Cook
> ccook55 at sc.rr.com
> MSN; romans815 at earthlink.net
> AIM: goldadore922
> BLOG: http://www.xanga.com/ciu_nice_guy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kenneth Chrane" <kenneth.chrane at verizon.net>
> To: "Multiple recipients of NFBnet NFB-Talk Mailing List"
> <NFB-Talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: <CSDB-ALUMNI at googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:25 PM
> Subject: [nfb-talk] British Money:
>
>
> Each British banknote is approximately 7mm (3 tenths of an inch)
longer
and
> 5mm (2 tenths of an
> inch) wider than it's denominational predecessor.
>
> Five pound note, blue
> 135mm x 70mm (approx.)
> Ten pound note, brown
> 142mm x 75mm (approx.)
> Twenty pound note, purple
> 149mm x 80mm (approx.)
> Fifty pound note, red.
> 156mm x 85mm (approx.)
>
> & The designs on each note feature historical characters as follows:
>
> £5 - Elizabeth Fry - The images on the back of the note are related to
the
> life and work of this
> social reformer. The main illustration shows Elizabeth Fry reading to
> prisoners at Newgate. In
> recognition of her work she was awarded the key to the prison and this
is
> used in the design of the
> banknote.
>
> £10 - Charles Darwin - As a young man Darwin was employed as the
naturalist
> on board the ship HMS
> Beagle an illustration of which is depicted on the back of the note.
Also
> pictured is an
> illustration of Darwin 's own magnifying lens and the flora and fauna
that
> he may have come across
> on his travels.
>
> £20 - Sir Edward Elgar - Elgar spent the majority of his life in
Worcester
> and the first performance
> of the full version of his Enigma Variations took place in Worcester
> Cathedral at the 1899 Three
> Choirs Festival. An image of the west face of the cathedral is
included in
> the design on the back of
> the note.
>
> £50 - Sir John Houblon - Houblon was the first Governor of the Bank of
> England and the current £50
> note was issued during the same year (1994) as the Bank celebrated its
300th
> anniversary. The design
> on the back of the note includes an image of Houblon's house in
Threadneedle
> Street on the site of
> the Bank's present building.
>
> (from the Bank of England website).
>
> Naturally all notes feature Her Royal Highness Queen Elizabeth II and
also
> have a metallic thread as
> well as a hologram. The £50 note has a foil patch on the front near
the
> portrait of the queen,
> showing a reflective rose and medallion.
>
> Hope this is of interest.
>
> I couldn't believe the American money last time I was over there, it's
> surely time they did
> something to improve it. Last time I was in the states if it wasn't
for
> the honesty of one teller
> in an NC shopping mall, I would have accidentally paid 101 dollars
instead
> of 6 dollars, for 2 ice
> creams! And by the way I'm a sighted partner with 20/20 vision.
>
> Our smallest note, the fiver, it currently worth about 9 dollars 77
cents,
> and with the US dollar
> only worth about 51 pence here, it's tempting to say the dollar bill
should
> be scrapped! In the
> British experience when a new note or coin is introduced it has always
been
> done gradually, with
> advance notice and the old coin or note being still in circulation
> simultaneously with the new,
> whilst the old one is gradually phased out. This happened with the
half
> pence coin (now gone) as
> well as the old large ten pence pieces (now gone) and the old pound
note
> (now also gone). Doing it
> that way allowed time for people to get used to the change and for
vending
> machines etc, to catch
> up.
>
> Best to all and my compliments of the Christmas Season, to all at the
peeps.
> And whether your
> money is accessible or not, I hope you all get lots of it!!
>
> Leon Gilbert (UK). A K A "Search Engine" on the peeps.
> (Personal email lwg at blueyonder.co.uk )
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Beasley" <peter at tafn.org.uk>
> To: <peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [peeps-talk] Accessible Money
>
>
> I didn't say in my original post, but as well as being different
sizes,
they
> are also different
> colours. The narrowest note is the £5 and the widest the £50. You
can
> distinguish the different
> widths by placing a note between your index and middle finger.
>
> Hope this helps.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: delma bliss
> To: peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [peeps-talk] Accessible Money
>
>
> dear peter
> can you tell me what your money is like
> what is the smallest to the largest size bills
> are they more then 1 color?
> the reason i am asking
> i hope to be moving to the u k
> and it would be nice to no what bills are whitch.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jennifer Thomas" <jen at nc.rr.com>
> To: <peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [peeps-talk] Accessible Money
>
> > sure wish we had that set up, peter.
> > At 11:46 AM 12/14/2006, you wrote:
> >
> >>Here in the UK, our bank notes vary in widthwith
> >>the £5 being the narrowest and the £50 the widest.
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: tiffany black
> >>To:
<mailto:peeps-talk%40yahoogroups.com>peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com
> >>Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:30 PM
> >>Subject: RE: [peeps-talk] Accessible Money
> >>
> >>Good to know Jennifer. Thanks.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From:
> >><mailto:peeps-talk%40yahoogroups.com>peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com
> >>[mailto:peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com] On
> >>Behalf Of Jennifer Thomas
> >>Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:37 AM
> >>To:
<mailto:peeps-talk%40yahoogroups.com>peeps-talk at yahoogroups.com
> >>Subject: [peeps-talk] Accessible Money
> >>
> >>AMERICAN COUNCIL OF THE BLIND (ACB) PUBLIC RELATIONS
> >>COMMITTEE
> >>1055 E. Flamingo Rd., Ste. 404, Las Vegas, NV 89119
> >>(702) 735-2484 Fax (702) 733-7570
> >><mailto:rsanders%40acb.org>rsanders at acb.org
> >>**********************************************************
> >>
> >>December 12, 2006
> >>
> >>American Council of the Blind Vows to Continue the Battle for
Accessible
> >>Paper Currency in the DC Circuit Court of Appeals
> >>
> >>For Immediate Release
> >>
> >>For additional information contact Ralph Sanders.
> >>
> >>The American Council of the Blind (ACB) has made clear its
intention
to
> >>continue the court battle for accessible currency pursuant to the
ruling
> >>in
> >>its favor by the Federal District Court in the District of
Columbia
and
> >>despite opposition by the Bush Administration.
> >>
> >>"We anticipated that the U.S. Department of the Treasury would
appeal
> the
> >>DC
> >>District Court ruling and were not surprised when The Department
of
> >>Justice
> >>filed an appeal today on behalf of Treasury," said Christopher
Gray,
> ACB's
> >>President.
> >>
> >>"Treasury complains about the costs of making currency
accessible,"
Gray
> >>added "but they are not at all concerned about the cost of
litigation."
> >>
> >>"We are committed to this fight even to the Supreme Court, if
necessary,
> >>because it is the right thing to do, and because it is the law of
the
> >>United
> >>States," Gray said.
> >>
> >>Melanie Brunson, American Council of the Blind's Executive
Director
was
> >>not
> >>immediately available for comment. She is finishing up a week long
trip
> to
> >>Tokyo, Japan where she was a featured speaker addressing an
> international
> >>conference on accessibility to audio and video programming for the
blind
> >>and
> >>visually impaired.
> >>
> >>Estimates of the numbers of blind and visually impaired Americans
who
> will
> >>benefit from accessible paper currency range from 3.3 million to
10
> >>million.
> >>This estimate, however, does not take into account the tens of
millions
> of
> >>Americans who are beginning to experience sight loss because of
age.
The
> >>senior citizens are often not included in the visually impaired
> category,
> >>but many of them express problems with reading currency in dim
light,
> >>particularly at night in gas stations and convenience stores.
> >>
> >>"It seems to us that the argument of those groups opposing our
position
> is
> >>poorly founded since no specific method of making the currency
> accessible
> >>has been put forward," Gray said. "Estimates of potential costs to
> vending
> >>machine operators and to cash register changes are simply
unfounded at
> >>this
> >>time."
> >>
> >>In reaching his ruling in the Federal District Court, Judge James
> >>Robertson
> >>noted that of 180 nations printing paper currency only the United
States
> >>makes no effort to make the currency accessible without vision.
> >>
> >>As for small elements within the blind community who have voiced
> >>opposition
> >>Gray said that it is hard to find unanimity within any sector of
the
> >>American society on any issue. "The blind community would not have
> >>succeeded
> >>in moving into active participation in any sector of our society
without
> >>steps to make material generated in print accessible in some way
from
> >>printed books to computer screens," Gray said.
> >>"We still have a long way to go to level the playing field and the
> >>currency
> >>suit is merely one effort among many sponsored by the American
Council
> of
> >>the Blind," he said.
> >>
> >>The American Council of the Blind is the largest consumer based
> >>organization
> >>of blind and visually impaired Americans advocating for the rights
of
> >>blind
> >>Americans. Organized through more than seventy affiliates in every
> >>community
> >>in the United States, the organization is dedicated to making it
> possible
> >>for blind and visually impaired Americans to participate fully in
every
> >>aspect of American society. For more information on the American
Council
> >>of
> >>the Blind, and the issues it supports visit www.acb.org.
> >>
> >>For The People provides this list as a service and does not
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