[nfb-talk] Cash

Fri Dec 15 09:35:09 CST 2006

Hi Alan,

I think I'm among friends here so feel free to call me Jim.

My name for the ACB is the Whiner's Club reminiscent of the Diner's Club of 
a number of years ago.  It seems the leadership or people of high profile in 
that organization gripe so much, at least, that is my impression.  Yes, 
there are times to gripe I suppose but can't it be balanced out with more 
positive ideas and programs their organization promotes?  The complaining 
gets old fast and I certainly don't feel uplifted when on their list.  Guess 
we will see how this all plays out down the road a bit.

Jim

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Wheeler" <awheeler at neb.rr.com>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Cash

Jim (may I call you that?),
Your comments are all well thought out.  I tend to agree with a lot of what
you said here, and am reminded of the former ACB leader who admitted in the
Braille Forum that he didn't know what the organization truly stood for.
That's a pretty sad commentary, if you ask me.

Alan Wheeler
awheeler at neb.rr.com or alan_wheeler at neb.rr.com
redwheel1 on skype
http://alan-wheeler.blogspot.com/
"Tell the people the truth and the country will be free"
  --Abraham Lincoln

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of James Aldrich
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:15 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Cash

Hello all,

I think I'll way in on this discussion.  This is simply my opinion with my
observations.  They don't necessarily represent the views of the NFB.

The proposed currency change won't be stopped by the NFB opposing the idea!
The NFB won't need to lift a finger to prevent this from happening!  It is
true if the NFB got on board with the ACB over this issue, it might become
reality more easily!  Even though the NFB does not support a currency change
at this time or never will support such a change, its lack of support won't
have much baring on the outcome of this issue.  It was the ACB which
obtained and got the ruling of Judge Robertson.  It will be the ACB which
needs to carry this through to the end.  Right now, Judge Robertson's
decision is under appeal at this time.  This appeal could take years to be
resolved!  This was acknowledged by people on the ACB-l list.  I would say
the blame for this change of currency not taking place should be placed with
the ACB itself, not the NFB.  I think that organization would go into
culture shock if they  actually carried something out to the finish as this
currency change issue they started.  Why would I say this?  I believe they
are too preoccupied with things which happened twenty-five to thirty years
ago along with a great deal of  negative baggage they like to burden
everyone with!  I haven't seen much real positive discussion about the
matter on their list as I do here.  At least somebody here is willing to
answer those matters you bring up and maybe some take more   time than
necessary   to answer your questions,   At least, you get an answer here
whether you like what you hear or not.  People have been patient with you
and I admire that!

I posed a question on their list asking why it should matter to them what
the NFB thinks, says or does about this currency change?  Couldn't they see
this issue through to the end?  They seem to have support from some within
the AFB and maybe some other organizations so why should it matter what the
NFB thinks?  If they have the membership they claim to have, why don't they
work for this goal and see it through? If they are as large as they say they
are, one would think they have the frame of mind and the discipline to
accomplish this currency change.  I also asked them why they were so
preoccupied with their history and not in tune with what matters to the
blind to date?  I also asked what happened during the Penny Golden Free
Press Association Matter and how was that resolved?  They are so quick to
supposably display the sins of the NFB they don't recognize or mention their
own shortcomings.  I was told not mentioning or acknowledging their history
is like trying to sale a ship without a compass.  One needs to know where
they started from and where they are heading to.  I don't necessarily
disagree with that answer but I would think they would want a balanced view
of their past and issues of  concern to all of us during this present day.
I was told to bring something up which concerned me and they would deal with
it.  As long as I have been on their list, I've heard little about their
positive programs but certainly have heard a great deal of NFB Bashing.  A
day doesn't go by that the NFB is blamed for something not happening or the
NFB is in the way for something to take place.  This is a daily occurrence.
I haven't heard this kind of junk as often here.  Yes, we do talk about the
ACB and at times it isn't complimentary!  I would say they bring it on
themselves.  I tend to believe our leadership when they say the ACB isn't a
large organization.  I'd also say they don't have the positive frame of mind
or the discipline to actually see something through they started.  If they
have seen something to the finish, why don't they talk about it?  It is so
much easier to blame the NFB for their own failures or lack of courage or
discipline to see something accomplished.

I would agree that there are good people in both organizations.  Sometimes
people try to say something but are shouted down.  A lady was saying there
seems to be too much talk which was negative.  Wouldn't this create a bad
impression for those who recently joined their list and shouldn't they tame
it down a bit?  She was shouted down and as I understood the general tone of
what was said, don't bother us!  We'll talk about what we want to talk
about!  I wrote in to agree with the lady and felt they should bring out
some of what was positive about their own organization.  Yes, I tend to
agree with our leadership here!  The ACB doesn't have a large organization
which is as large as the NFB.  They seem to lack for programs and policies
which would be beneficial for blind persons.

If I were betting on this currency matter, I'd say they will blow it
somehow.  I predict they will lose the appeal!  They won't see this through
to the end.

If you truly believe they are on the right track, I'd say spend your time
and energy helping their cause out.  Perhaps if they placed their energy in
a membership drive or some other form of political action, they might go
somewhere.  You can place your eggs in their basket if you wish but I tend
to think the ACB will either see this through or not accomplish what they
set out to accomplish.  I'm betting this will never happen.  The currency
change won't take place.

As for backlash, its out there.  My family has been in the lumber business
for some time.  I was enjoying Christmas with the family at my brother's
home.  A contractor who bought building materials from my brother happened
to be with the gathering that year.  He came up to me and out of the blue
went into this diatribe about how houses and buildings cost three times more
than they otherwise would simply because of all the accommodations I
insisted on having in these new buildings.  He just started in on me for no
apparent reason or maybe he simply wanted to argue!  I politely asked him to
explain further about his concerns.  He mainly talked about the wheelchair
accommodations in buildings and houses.  I then told him some of this
accommodation was a good thing but there were some things which don't help
blind people very much!  I talked about ramps on street corners if one were
to follow them down, one would be in the middle of the intersection.  I then
spoke about areas downtown where the asphalt met the sidewalk at the corner.

There is no discernable curb to the corner.  This is especially bad if there
was snow on the ground.  How might one position themselves to a different
crossing on such corners when dealing with no curbs at all!  This person was
speechless!  He couldn't believe all that accommodation would help some
people but not benefit others.  He didn't know what to say!  He was truly
speechless!  My wife has bad knees and the ramps do help her.  I have
modified my position on ramps a bit thanks to observing her travel.

Yes, if this currency change isn't handled properly, it could have
repercussions for us all and not positive ones if we aren't careful!  We do
need to think things through carefully and examine the total picture!  Would
the benefit we gain be worth the setbacks?

The other problem is we are dealing with hypothesis.  There is no way we
could have the so called accessible money circulating at the same time the
traditional money is circulating.  We don't know which currency plan will
take place.  There is that possibility the solution could be worse than the
original currency.  We really don't know the score here!  As for me, I'll
probably unsubscribe from the ACB-L list and deal with more positive people
which are on this list and who do a better job of rational discussion.

For what it is worth to anyone here!

Jim Aldrich

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Cash

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Cash

>I don't know about wheelchairs and ramps.  I think we have seen back
> lashes against affirmative action, and I bet most black people would
> tell you there is such a thing as a back lash.

I don't think so.

Yes, most black people would say there are still racists. But those people
were racists before. Has the civil rights movement *created* racists? I
doubt it.

> I don't advocate asking for nothing, I just don't advocate for asking
> for anything and everything.  The biggest barrier, from studies I
> have seen, to disabled persons getting employment is a lack of good
> public transportation.  Now, I know that if we don't get identifiable
> money the savings won't improve transportation.  However, I think
> blind people would derive more benefit from improved transportation
> then identifiable money, since most of us have developed workable
> systems -- not perfect systems but workable ones.

So what is the point? Go ahead and work for better transportation. Who's
stopping you

I think the ACB's strategy is very smart. Take what you can get. The law may
not be the best but it's what it is. And the law appears to require the
Treasury Department to make bills so that blind people can tell them apart.

And *again* (I really wish you'd address this point), the NFB is expending
resources to *stop* a change. If it's a matter of scarce resources, how can
they justify that?

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