[nfb-talk] unscribeRe: nfb-talk Digest, Vol 7, Issue 39

[Adam]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org>
To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:46 AM
Subject: nfb-talk Digest, Vol 7, Issue 39


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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Cash (John Heim)
>   2. Re: Cash (John Heim)
>   3. Re: Cash (John Heim)
>   4. The resolution (John Heim)
>   5. Re: cheating for students in junior/highschoolsandincollege?
>      (Josh)
>   6. Re: cheating for students in junior/highschoolsandincollege?
>      (Josh)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:04:42 -0600
> From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Cash
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <01fe01c71f99$90aaabb0$4ba65c90 at vv507j>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Reply in-line below.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> As I have stated before, though, it is not as much this particular issue
>> but the general pattern that makes me uneasy.  Let's assume that we just
>> disagree hear and
>> that money handling has been extremely difficult for you and a major
>> source of stress.  How do we decide which issues are civil rights
>
>  Some newly blinded people
>> find most upsetting the fact that they will never see a sunset.  I have
>> heard that stated, so this isn't manufactured.  Most of us would agree
>> that society does not owe
>> them someone to describe a sunset on call.  But it soon gets more
>> complicated as we move on up the ladder of issues.  Does society owe us
>> accommodations,
>> excluding money for the moment, for things that cause us trouble that we
>> can learn ourselves given training?  Sighted
>
>
> Steve, have you thought this through at all? The government of the United
> States doesn't issue sunsets. The comparison is totally invalid. The
> principle being applied here is that the government of the United States
> should not be offering its services in such a way as to exclude one class 
> of
> citizens.  Actually, that's more than a principle, it's the law.
>
>
> people don't have to use canes or dogs, so
>> should society assign someone to us so we don't have to go to that extra
>> effort to learn to use a cane or dog?  My guess is that you would agree
>> with me that we are
>> better off learning to use a cane or dog, but why?  The point is, though,
>> where is that point where we don't use another technique and expect that
>> we are
>> accommodated in some way?
>
>
> You need to study up on civics. There are 2 concepts you're missing.
> 1. democracy
> 2. rule of law
>
> How our society works is that we, as a people, decide what's fair and 
> just.
> We We, as a people, have decided that there should be a level playing
> surface. This is in a law that the judge sited in his ruling that the
> government had to change the bills.
>
> The government is obligated to obey it's laws. There's been no national
> referendum  on changing the money but there doesn't have to be because the
> issue is already covered by existing laws. If you don't like the law, you
> shouldn't have voted for the people who passed it.
>
> I think all this is missing the point anyway since as blind people, we
> shouldn't be advocating against changes that improve our lives. You want 
> to
> save the government mmoney? Fine... Do it on your own time. Don't call
> yourself a representative of blind people while you're doing it.
>
> If the NFB wants to take a libertarian stance, fine. But they should 
> change
> the name of the org to the National Federation of Libertarians then. If
> they're going to call themselves an organization of advocacy for the 
> blind,
> they shouldn't oppose changes that would help blind people.
>
> I think the NFB itself realizes this so they are arguing that the change
> would actually hurt blind people. I find that absurd.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:22:16 -0600
> From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Cash
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <020a01c71f9c$05335d40$4ba65c90 at vv507j>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Reply in-line below.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Cash
>
>
>> John,
>>
>> If one looks at both of these issues as civil rights issues, you are
>> right, the positions are contradictory.  Any change that we push for,
>> whether it be web access or
>> money, does carry with it possible negative effects.  That is precisely
>> why we need to prioritize and not just push for whatever issue seems
>> appropriate this month.
>
> But the NFB is using (I'd say wasting) resourses opposing a change that
> would help blind people
>
> Again, the government may very well fix the problem if the NFB doesn't
> interfere. There is no reason to believe that if the goverment doesn't fix
> the money, they'd do something else beneficial to blind people.  The
> government is not going to say, "Well, we saved $50M on not changing the
> money. Lets buy everybody one of those scanners."
>
> Instead of standing in the way of progress, the NFB should be saying, 
> "Well,
> that change is fine. But it's not enough. Not nearly enough."
>
> That's the way politics really works. Movements gain momentum.  First you
> get curb cuts then you get wheelchair ramps in restaurants then you get
> accessible bathrooms.
>
>>
>> The difference is that I believe that it is a questionable position to
>> take that we have a right to a given accommodation as oppose to a need 
>> for
>> it that benefits both
>> society and blind people.  If we see such issues as needs, then the issue
>> of prioritization is relevant and one is not going to favor all "need"
>> issues with equal
>> emphasis.  I'm not sure if you are ignoring this difference or if you are
>> simply too angry for rational discussion.  To
>
> Stop accusing me of being irrational. I have been arguing this in a
> completely rational manner.
>
>
> indicate in a discussion that one side or the other is
>> " . . .  just wrong. That's all there is to it." indicates an
>> unwillingness on your part to discuss this seriously.
>
> Ridiculous! I *have* been discussing this seriously. I think the NFB's
> position is completely indefensible. If you think I'm wrong, prove it!
>
> If you give good enough arguments, I'll change my mind.  I've done it
> before. But I am about as sure as I can be that those arguments don't 
> exist.
> The arguments that have been advanced so far are patently absurd. Even
> you've admitted to the apparent contradiction in the NFB's position on the
> two issues I've brought up.
>
> At the heart of the NFB's position on accessible money is that it would 
> make
> it harder for blind people to find jobs, now, surely, you don't support
> that, do you?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:31:03 -0600
> From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Cash
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <021601c71f9d$3f2c8fc0$4ba65c90 at vv507j>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > John,
>>
>> Now you are making some sense.  Coins are different sizes for everybody.
>> If bills are going to be more identifiable, why shouldn't that also be 
>> for
>> everybody rather
>> than something the benevelent government does for the blind?  Why
>> shouldn't it be done as a matter of common sense rather than to eliminate
>> the stress that every
>> blind person must endure whenever they handle money, as it was described
>> locally?
>>
>
> Wow... I just don't see how you can even ask that. Why in the world do you
> think it is okay for the government to offer services in such a way as to
> make it very difficult for a certain group to use? How could it be more
> obvious that that is unfair?
>
> If possible, the government should offer equal access to its services to 
> all
> of its citizens.  That's not just an obvious moral principle, it's the 
> law.
>
> Which reminds me. I think the NFB is going to lose out here. The Treasury
> department's appeal will be denied, the money will be changed, and we'll 
> all
> live happily ever after. But the NFB will look really bad in the process.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:45:13 -0600
> From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> Subject: [nfb-talk] The resolution
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <022b01c71f9f$39cdfad0$4ba65c90 at vv507j>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Below is a message I received from James  Gashel of the NFB. It contains 
> the
> text of the resolution regarding the ACB's attempt to have the currency
> changed.
>
> Note the use of the term "publicity stunt" to describe the ACB's action.
> Also note the use of the word "albatross" to describe it's effect.
>
> Anyone who thinks that I have been over zealous in my criticism of the NFB
> should consider that their own *official* statements are at least as
> provocative as what I've been saying.
>
> Think about this people... The NFB accused the ACB of a publicity stunt. 
> One
> group of advocates for the blind accused another group of advocates of the
> blind of a publicity stunt. That's pretty harsh. I don't know how the ACB
> could fail to be offended by that.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gashel, James" <JGashel at NFB.ORG>
> To: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:26 AM
> Subject: RE: NFB's position on the currency
>
>
> Hi John:
>
> All of the NFB resolutions are online, but, for your convenience, I am
> pasting it in below.
>
> Resolution 2002-25
>
> WHEREAS, on May 2, 2002, the American Council of the Blind (ACB) and two
> individual plaintiffs filed a lawsuit against the secretary of the 
> treasury
> of
> the United States and the treasurer of the United States alleging that the
> federal government is in violation of Section 504 of the Rehabilitation 
> Act
> of 1973 as amended, 29 U.S.C. Section 794, by issuing all U.S. currency in
> an identical size, color, and texture, which renders various denominations
> indistinguishable
> by touch, alleging that the blind are thus largely excluded from enjoying
> the benefits of monetary transactions and seeking declaratory and 
> injunctive
> relief by requiring the Department of the Treasury to implement design
> changes in the currency to make the various denominations distinguishable 
> by
> touch
> and color; and
>
> WHEREAS, this lawsuit is based on a false and misleading assumption that 
> the
> inability to distinguish banknote denominations by touch largely excludes
> the
> blind from participating in commerce and other ordinary activities of 
> life;
> and
>
> WHEREAS, the theory of this suit is disproved by the lives of tens of
> thousands of blind persons who live normal lives and participate in 
> commerce
> every
> day without difficulty; and
>
> WHEREAS, more than having difficulty with money, blind people are apt to
> suffer great harm from the attendant publicity surrounding this suit,
> fostering
> and reinforcing the notion that the blind cannot easily handle currency as
> it now exists and, for example, needlessly creating an albatross around 
> the
> neck of any blind person seeking employment in any position involving
> handling money; and
>
> WHEREAS, to the extent that currency identification is truly a problem for
> individual blind people, various technological devices capable of
> identifying
> banknotes and audibly announcing their denomination are available for 
> sale,
> and in fact giving every blind person in the country such a device would 
> be
> simpler and cheaper than re-engineering the nation's cash-handling 
> capacity;
> and
>
> WHEREAS, in view of its false premise and lack of merit, there is little
> likelihood that the relief sought by this lawsuit will ever be granted, 
> thus
> using
> the blind in a publicity stunt and showing little regard for the genuine
> needs and concerns of blind people; and
>
> WHEREAS, more than the adverse publicity resulting from the filing of this
> suit itself, there is a substantial risk of a ruling that could nullify 
> the
> potential
> benefits of Section 504 by narrowing its scope and coverage or 
> over-turning
> the law altogether, as has happened with other recent court decisions in 
> the
> area of disability: Now, therefore,
>
> BE IT RESOLVED by the National Federation of the Blind in Convention
> assembled this ninth day of July, 2002, in the City of Louisville, 
> Kentucky,
> that this
> organization take all appropriate and legally available steps to advise 
> the
> court that the failure to have U.S. currency issued as sought by the
> plaintiffs
> in this suit is not an act of discrimination against the blind and in such 
> a
> fashion that the accompanying ruling does not harm current and future
> efforts
> to achieve genuinely needed and desirable accommodations for the blind; 
> and
>
> BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this organization take steps to counter the
> adverse effects of the harmful publicity arising from this particular
> lawsuit and
> renew efforts to educate the public that the blind can participate in
> commerce on equal terms and fully enjoy the benefits of U.S. currency as 
> it
> now exists.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Heim [mailto:jheim at math.wisc.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 5:29 PM
> To: Gashel, James
> Subject: Re: NFB's position on the currency
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:54:22 -0500
> From: "Josh" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] cheating for students in
> junior/highschoolsandincollege?
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <002601c71fa0$81e47550$6501a8c0 at kutztownstudent>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> even if I hadn't cheated I still wouldn't have a good job. Because I went 
> to
> a krappy college and my wife went to the same college I went to and they 
> did
> not make hardly any accomodations for us. Plus there's no public
> transportation around here so actually getting to a job would be nearly
> impossible. So instead I've been focusing my efforts on making money on 
> the
> internet. I signed up with an essay-writing company. People pay me to 
> write
> essays for them that they don't feel like writing themselves. The company
> pays through pay-pal. And the nice part is the people hiring you don't 
> even
> have to know you're blind.
>
> Josh
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <powerst at dcpcepn.nci.nih.gov>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] cheating for students in
> junior/highschoolsandincollege?
>
>
>> Hi again;
>> Until about 18 years into my curreer, I did not even have a note taker.
>> There was no way I could have cheated in school, accept to maybe have
>> Braille note hidden someware.  That is very dangerious.
>>
>> Josh, did you ever think of what you did as passing with flying colors,
>> but not knowing enough for a good job.  In my opinion, anyone who cheats
>> is cheating themselves.  Their knowledge for a good job is deprived.
>> I am not saying I got the best job at all, but that is due to other
>> health problems.  I am blessed to have a job.  I proved to the
>> government that a multi handicapped person with an AA degree could work
>> for the government.
>> I do a lot more today than I did when I first started.
>>
>> Terry Powers
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Josh [mailto:jkenn337 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:24 PM
>> To: kamillhoff at gdoe.net; NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Cc: LuAnn Kennedy
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] cheating for students in junior/high
>> schoolsandincollege?
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I can tell you that I cheated on tests a lot in school and got away with
>> it.
>> And since I'm out of school I can safely say that the school I went to
>> was
>> Williams Valley School located near Tower City Pennsylvania. So if you
>> want
>> to look them up, give them a call, and tell them that their former blind
>>
>> student cheated on his spelling tests and perhaps some other tests go
>> right
>> ahead. Ok, and now here's how I cheated.
>> I cheated on my spelling tests by taking them on my laptop computer
>> which
>> ran KeySoft 1.33F for MS-DOS. It had a spell checker and I used to
>> spell-check my tests before printing them out and turning them in. And
>> on my
>> oral tests with the braille lite and sometimes written tests I had notes
>> in
>> the braille lite and I got quite skilled at flipping between my notes
>> file
>> and my test file to quickly look up the test answers in my notes and
>> then
>> quickly go back to my test file and write in the answer. So, in closing.
>> I
>> would like to indirectly thank Blazie Engineering, and PulseData
>> humanware
>> for unknowingly giving me a hand with cheating on tests in school.
>> Without
>> your computer equipment, braille displays and spelling checkers with
>> which
>> none of my wonderful methods of cheating would have been possible. But
>> now
>> that the two companies know how I cheated on tests maybe they'll put
>> some
>> kind of anti-cheating software into their notetakers and other products?
>> I
>> sure hope not! Come on guys, don't ruin it for the next generation of
>> blind
>> students who have to spell-check their spelling tests before they turn
>> them
>> in!
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Kathleen A. Millhoff" <kamillhoff at gdoe.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 5:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] cheating for students in junior/high schools
>> andincollege?
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Great area but so many variables, many which can't be controled.
>>> If the student uses braille, it's probably quite easy to cheat.  But
>>> students don't have to try to cheat when given tests orally; unless
>> the
>>> reader is unfamiliar with the material, the reader/questioner cannot
>> help
>>> but modify the listening and "wait time" in incorrect answers are
>> given.
>>> Even if no one had planned to cheat, the oral method of testing, when
>> done
>>> by a teacher or aide who is familiar with the material is biased.
>>> If tests are given as take-home they should be modified to make them
>>> harder.
>>> A great reason for giving a take-home test generally is to help
>> students
>>> understand how much they already know and how well they have learned
>> to
>>> access the information.  The assessment procedure can be very
>> effective.
>>> However, once again, if all students are given a "pencil/paper" test
>> in
>>> class, and our blind student is given one to take home, the results
>> will
>>> be
>>> biased.  It's pretty likely that teachers who are pressed for time and
>>> results won't ostensibly care very much.
>>> A braille reader need only slip crib sheets into pockets or behind a
>> sheet
>>> of paper to cheat on a test.  If the teacher doesn't know braille they
>>
>>> will
>>> be none the wiser.
>>> Best of luck on your research.  If I were you, I'd redefine you
>> sampling
>>> method so you can rule out some things that might skew your data.
>> But,
>>> that's just me, feeling the stress of the usual end of semester stuff.
>>> best,
>>> kat
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
>>> Behalf Of Brandon McGinty
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 11:29 AM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] cheating for students in junior/high schools and
>>> incollege?
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>> I'm new on the list.
>>> I am writing a paper on cheating in school, and how the methods and
>>> level of difficulties differ from blind vs. sighted students.
>>> For instance, how easy is it for a blind student to cheat on a test,
>>> with the loopholes he or she is given (taking the test home, due to
>> time
>>> constraints, is one example.)
>>> Also, what should be done with a cheater once he or she is caught?
>>> A talk, detension, suspension?
>>> I'd love to here your thoughts, posative and negative.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Much,
>>> Brandon McGinty
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
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>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:57:09 -0500
> From: "Josh" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] cheating for students in
> junior/highschoolsandincollege?
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <002c01c71fa0$e5bd3800$6501a8c0 at kutztownstudent>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> my wife and I only cheated in classes we didn't like or we felt were a 
> waste
> of time in high school...classes in which we'd sit in and think to
> ourselves...why am I here when i know I'll never use this when I get out 
> of
> school anyway? My wife who is also blind, and myself, when we'd be in a
> class that we didn't like, we'd download books and novels from the 
> internet
> and sit in the classes we did not like, sit there and read books. My 
> wife's
> history teacher said that...my wife told me he said he knew she was 
> reading
> something else and he just let her go. The only classes I did not cheat in
> were the ones i really liked, mainly my foreign language classes and 
> English
> classes.
>
> Josh
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <powerst at dcpcepn.nci.nih.gov>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] cheating for students in
> junior/highschoolsandincollege?
>
>
>> Hi again;
>> Until about 18 years into my curreer, I did not even have a note taker.
>> There was no way I could have cheated in school, accept to maybe have
>> Braille note hidden someware.  That is very dangerious.
>>
>> Josh, did you ever think of what you did as passing with flying colors,
>> but not knowing enough for a good job.  In my opinion, anyone who cheats
>> is cheating themselves.  Their knowledge for a good job is deprived.
>> I am not saying I got the best job at all, but that is due to other
>> health problems.  I am blessed to have a job.  I proved to the
>> government that a multi handicapped person with an AA degree could work
>> for the government.
>> I do a lot more today than I did when I first started.
>>
>> Terry Powers
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Josh [mailto:jkenn337 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:24 PM
>> To: kamillhoff at gdoe.net; NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Cc: LuAnn Kennedy
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] cheating for students in junior/high
>> schoolsandincollege?
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I can tell you that I cheated on tests a lot in school and got away with
>> it.
>> And since I'm out of school I can safely say that the school I went to
>> was
>> Williams Valley School located near Tower City Pennsylvania. So if you
>> want
>> to look them up, give them a call, and tell them that their former blind
>>
>> student cheated on his spelling tests and perhaps some other tests go
>> right
>> ahead. Ok, and now here's how I cheated.
>> I cheated on my spelling tests by taking them on my laptop computer
>> which
>> ran KeySoft 1.33F for MS-DOS. It had a spell checker and I used to
>> spell-check my tests before printing them out and turning them in. And
>> on my
>> oral tests with the braille lite and sometimes written tests I had notes
>> in
>> the braille lite and I got quite skilled at flipping between my notes
>> file
>> and my test file to quickly look up the test answers in my notes and
>> then
>> quickly go back to my test file and write in the answer. So, in closing.
>> I
>> would like to indirectly thank Blazie Engineering, and PulseData
>> humanware
>> for unknowingly giving me a hand with cheating on tests in school.
>> Without
>> your computer equipment, braille displays and spelling checkers with
>> which
>> none of my wonderful methods of cheating would have been possible. But
>> now
>> that the two companies know how I cheated on tests maybe they'll put
>> some
>> kind of anti-cheating software into their notetakers and other products?
>> I
>> sure hope not! Come on guys, don't ruin it for the next generation of
>> blind
>> students who have to spell-check their spelling tests before they turn
>> them
>> in!
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Kathleen A. Millhoff" <kamillhoff at gdoe.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 5:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] cheating for students in junior/high schools
>> andincollege?
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Great area but so many variables, many which can't be controled.
>>> If the student uses braille, it's probably quite easy to cheat.  But
>>> students don't have to try to cheat when given tests orally; unless
>> the
>>> reader is unfamiliar with the material, the reader/questioner cannot
>> help
>>> but modify the listening and "wait time" in incorrect answers are
>> given.
>>> Even if no one had planned to cheat, the oral method of testing, when
>> done
>>> by a teacher or aide who is familiar with the material is biased.
>>> If tests are given as take-home they should be modified to make them
>>> harder.
>>> A great reason for giving a take-home test generally is to help
>> students
>>> understand how much they already know and how well they have learned
>> to
>>> access the information.  The assessment procedure can be very
>> effective.
>>> However, once again, if all students are given a "pencil/paper" test
>> in
>>> class, and our blind student is given one to take home, the results
>> will
>>> be
>>> biased.  It's pretty likely that teachers who are pressed for time and
>>> results won't ostensibly care very much.
>>> A braille reader need only slip crib sheets into pockets or behind a
>> sheet
>>> of paper to cheat on a test.  If the teacher doesn't know braille they
>>
>>> will
>>> be none the wiser.
>>> Best of luck on your research.  If I were you, I'd redefine you
>> sampling
>>> method so you can rule out some things that might skew your data.
>> But,
>>> that's just me, feeling the stress of the usual end of semester stuff.
>>> best,
>>> kat
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
>>> Behalf Of Brandon McGinty
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 11:29 AM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] cheating for students in junior/high schools and
>>> incollege?
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>> I'm new on the list.
>>> I am writing a paper on cheating in school, and how the methods and
>>> level of difficulties differ from blind vs. sighted students.
>>> For instance, how easy is it for a blind student to cheat on a test,
>>> with the loopholes he or she is given (taking the test home, due to
>> time
>>> constraints, is one example.)
>>> Also, what should be done with a cheater once he or she is caught?
>>> A talk, detension, suspension?
>>> I'd love to here your thoughts, posative and negative.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Much,
>>> Brandon McGinty
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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> End of nfb-talk Digest, Vol 7, Issue 39
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