[nfb-talk] Cash

Thu Dec 14 08:13:56 CST 2006

That's true.  But, until someone can prove a real need to change the system 
which has worked for many years, (until someone decided it's to difficult 
for the poor blind people to deal with), blind people have handled their 
cash, spent money and received change just fine.  Maybe it's the lack of 
good rehab training in the country...blind people aren't learning how to 
deal with everyday transactions without becoming victims.  Just think of the 
years and years when blind vendors have handled paper money, without 
incident and without different sized bills.

Cindy
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Cash

Come on! Should the government make all coins the same size?  Do you
remember the furer over the dollar coin a few years back? Sighted people
were furious because they said it looked too much like a quarter.

It's just ridiculous to say that bills of different sizes would make it
harder for blind people to handle them.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Cash

> Josh:
>
> No, I don't think bills of different sizes and/or shapes would make it
> easier. In fact, I think it would be much more awkward as I wouldn't be
> able
> to manipulate bills of various denominations in my hand without risk of
> dropping some in that I would be preoccupied trying to handle the various
> sizes or shapes. Moreover, I think it would be quite awkward to carry
> around
> a template, trying to match each bill against it to determine its value.
> Talk about slow!
>
> And it's easy to avoid the change problem: I *tell* the clerk which
> denominations to hand me and in what order. And I can honestly say that I
> have never encountered a cashier who deliberately short-changed me. In
> fact,
> what hapepns more often is that I tell them theyve given me too much! And
> the till must balance at the end of the day and I certainly know where I
> went and at what time so I can easily rectify the situation if things go
> awry.
>
> The one time I ever had a problem with a transaction had nothing to do
> with
> cash -- I returned a two-meter HT to a Radio Shak because it hadn't been
> repaired properly and the store didn't show I had done it so accused me of
> trying to steal a radio when I demanded after several months that I be
> given
> a new radio. Turns out the management caught an assistant store manager
> who
> had taken the radio I had returned for his own use. One manager gone.
>
> In other words, the increased independence one would supposedly get from
> differently-sized or shaped currency is, in my opinion, largely illusory.
> And the American public will never go for currencies with difffering
> shape -- to awkward to handle.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Josh" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Cash
>
>
>> But european countries already have their money in different sizes. I
>> personally would like my dollars to be different sizes so I could tell
>> what
>> they are. Don't you think it would be faster and more convenient if you
>> knew
>> that a five was smaller than a ten? or that a five was shaped like a
>> triangle and that a ten was shaped like a circle? It's a lot better than
>> going up to the counter to pay for your groceries and asking, what bills
>> do
>> i have in my hand? and then the person working there responds, you have a
>> 1,
>> a 5, two tens, and a 20. ok, I'll put away the 20 and give you two fives.
>> no, I'll give you the ten. ok, I put the two fives away. Now the person
>> gives you back change and has to tell you what bills he/she is giving
>> you.
>> Now let's take a look at Europe. They don't have this problem because
>> their
>> money is already different sizes. So europe is better as far as money is
>> concerned.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:05 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Cash
>>
>>
>>> In a perfect world, you'd be absolutely correct. And, in fact, at one
>>> time,
>>> NFB's R&D Committee was, in fact, looking at the possibilities of
>>> constructing a hardware device that would intercept video signals and
>>> would
>>> do all the interpretation. Unfortunately, this is the real world and not
>>> the
>>> perfect one and the R&D Committee found that AI software wasn't at the
>>> point
>>> that it could be introduced as firmware in a hardware gizmo. Hence, we
>>> live
>>> with screen-readers which, like it or not, *require* web pages to
>>> conform
>>> to
>>> some guidelines to present information intelligibly to us. You know this
>>> already but I present it to set the stage for what I shall say next.
>>>
>>> In a perfect world, you'd be absolutely correct; there would be a
>>> contradiction in philosophy between NFB's opposition to changes in the
>>> currency for the sake of the blind and NFB's Target lawsuit. But again,
>>> this
>>> isn't a perfect world. So in addition to philosophical purity, some
>>> pragmatic considerations come into play. NFB has judged that in the
>>> world
>>> of
>>> cyberspace wherein more and more marketplace transactions are taking
>>> place,
>>> it is becoming increasingly important that the blind have access to
>>> commercial and financial websites since there is or may well soon be no
>>> way
>>> for the blind to participate in the cybereconomy without it. Hence, the
>>> Target lawsuit.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, with respect to cash transactions, the blind handle
>>> their
>>> currency and have always done so with very little difficulty. So we of
>>> NFB
>>> feel that the ACB lawsuit is asking the world to be modified in an area
>>> which we feel doesn't need modification and is positing a problem that,
>>> for
>>> the most part, doesn't exist. Oh yes, theoretically, the blind could be
>>> cheated. But, anecdotally, the instances of being bilked in the *real*
>>> world
>>> are few and far between and are, I suspect, no more prevalent than they
>>> are
>>> for the sighted public.
>>>
>>> I would not object were currency changes made that would benefit
>>> everyone.
>>> But I believe that we, the blind, don't need currency changes to live
>>> our
>>> lives and engage in commerce in society. The ACB lawsuit sends the
>>> opposite
>>> message -- that we live in constant fear of being short-changed and
>>> cannot
>>> make everyday financial transactions. This is obviously false.
>>>
>>> Yes, I have a money identifier. But I think I've used it three times
>>> this
>>> year and could have gotten along perfectly well without it. It certainly
>>> makes me bristle at the "poor, defenseless blind person" image
>>> propounded
>>> by
>>> the lawsuit.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>> To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:22 AM
>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Cash
>>>
>>>
>>>> Can someone please explain an apparent contradiction in NFB policies to
>>>> me?
>>>>
>>>> The NFB says that making the government change bills so that blind
>>>> people
>>>> can tell them apart implies that "the blind are not capable of looking
>>>> out
>>>> for our own best interests and that the whole world must be modified
>>>> for
>>>> our
>>>> protection."
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't the suit against Target do the same thing? Doesn't it imply
>>>> that
>>>> the
>>>> worl must be modified for us? If the NFB is to be consistent, shouldn't
>>>> they
>>>> be working on a screen reader that will work with the Target site
>>>> rather
>>>> than trying to make Target change their site?
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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