[nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer

[Mike Freeman]

Runs on a couple of AA cells, I think (I have yet to have the batteries run 
down). It is a little bit larger than the bills so would fit in most purses. 
It isn't a lot bigger than a Book Port.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <powerst at dcpcepn.nci.nih.gov>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer


> Mike;
> I think we are saying the same thing.  It depends how often you would be
> using it.  By the way, what does a money identifier run on.  It would be
> great if it were battery operated and I have no idea of its size and
> weight.  Is it easy to cary around?
> Terry Powers
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Freeman [mailto:k7uij at panix.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:46 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>
> Terry:
>
> The KNFB Reader has waaaaay more processor power than is needed to
> identify
> currency. And it will take something like twenty seconds to take the
> picture
> and process the picture; a money identifier, being tailored to the
> purpose,
> can identify a bill in a second or two at most. If one has many bills to
>
> identify, the money identifier is much more practical.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <powerst at dcpcepn.nci.nih.gov>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>
>
>> Mike;
>> If they can make the KNFB reader be able to read money, why would you
>> say a money identifier is better.  I think it depends on what reasons
>> you will be needind to check your money.  If you run a vending stand,
> a
>> money identifier is the best, but if you are just going to need to
>> identify a bill once in a while, then the knFB reader will be able to
>> read to you and also identify for you.  You can use it to sourt your
>> money in a private place.  Why have two units when the job can be done
>> by one.
>> Keep up the good work with the KNFB reader, NFB!
>>
>> Terry Powers
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mike Freeman [mailto:k7uij at panix.com]
>> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:24 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>>
>> The ability for the KNFB Reader to read currency is in the works.
> Don't
>> know
>> how far along the development of this functionality is. IMO a money
>> identifier will still be more efficient.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>>
>>
>> j
>> Dear Terri,
>>
>> I don't know.  I don't have one yet, but maybe someone on this list,
> who
>> has
>> one , can try it and let us know.
>>
>> David Evans, NFBF
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <powerst at dcpcepn.nci.nih.gov>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>>
>>
>>> Hi David E.;
>>> Great message.  I do not depend on traffic signals because you do not
>>> know when there might be a power failure and they might malfunction,
>>> just like a street light.
>>> Is there any chance the KNFB reader might be able to read money?
>>> Terry Powers
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Evans [mailto:drevans at bellsouth.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 2:47 PM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>>>
>>> Dear Robin,
>>>
>>> I don't try to be perfect, just the best I can be.
>>> My first example of a blind man when I was a kid was some guy in his
>>> thirties, dirty and unkempt, standing on a corner with his cane and a
>>> cup
>>> full of pencils.
>>> I could hear the things other people were saying about him and when I
>>> found
>>> that I was going blind, he was my first thought.
>>> Lucky for me I believed in myself and made up my mind that I was not
>>> going
>>> to be that guy.
>>> I just try to set the best example, of a blind man, that I can
> because
>>> other
>>> people are seeing me every day on the street.
>>> I do cross busy streets without the "aid" of beeping traffic signals
>> and
>>> I
>>> don't need them because I have good travel skills.
>>> This doesn't mean that I can't be hit by a car.  I have been hit
>> twice,
>>> but
>>> this was back before I learned travel skills and both times I was on
> a
>>> bicycle and I was hit from behind by hit and run drivers.  Once was
>> with
>>> my
>>> 3 year old daughter on the back of the bike.  The drivers were both
>>> speeding
>>> and in the second case, there was no one else on the road and they
>> still
>>> hit
>>> me.  I am sure it was a senior, who likely should not have been
>> driving
>>> anyway as I live near a place call Century Village and that street is
>>> their
>>> raceway to State Road 7 to go shopping.
>>> As for cars we can not hear,  I know all about them.  I built several
>> of
>>>
>>> them back in the late 1960's and '70's.
>>> I was part of the recent "Quiet Cars" conference that the NFB just
>> held
>>> at
>>> their National HQ in November.
>>> The new hybrid electric cars are going to prove a real problem for
> all
>>> pedestrians, not just the blind.  We tested two such cars , in a real
>>> world
>>> test outside the NFB center in Baltimore.
>>> The Toyota was absolutely silent.  In the alleyway test I could not
>> hear
>>> the
>>> car pass me at all and would not have known it except the mirror
>> brushed
>>>
>>> against my belt buckle as it went by.
>>> I am working now to get our state Department of Transportation to
>>> request
>>> that the matter be funded for study to find out what we can do about
>>> this
>>> situation.
>>> I was one of the presenters at the conference as I built the Lunar
>>> Rovers
>>> that sit on the Moon and worked on some student projects involving
>>> hybrids
>>> back in college.
>>> We had the same problem with the test cars hitting pedestrians  and
>>> bicyclist.  , in and around the Stanford Campus,  Back then we
> applied
>> a
>>>
>>> whistle to the front bumpers, but I think that we will have to do
> more
>>> than
>>> that now.
>>>
>>>
>>> I never saw the need for audible signals as I get the same
> information
>>> from
>>> the traffic that is moving or stopped.
>>> Why spend $40,000 to 75,000 to tell me something I can already tell.
>>> I would concede that there are some intersections, mostly because of
>>> their
>>> geometry could use a little help, but mostly in lining up to cross
> the
>>> street at odd angles.
>>> These streets are not that numerous and can either be dealt with as
>> they
>>> are
>>> or another crossing chosen.
>>> I find that many blind people who use them take it for granted that
>> the
>>> cars
>>> have or will stop.  I have pulled 3 such believers out of the way of
>>> cars
>>> running such lights in front of the now defunct Lighthouse of the
> Palm
>>> Beaches.
>>> If you just trust the audible signal, it is just a matter of time
>> before
>>>
>>> some driver running the light is going to bust you.
>>> You must not get lazy but use your ears and common sense or wind up
>>> somebody's hood ornament.
>>> I guest what I am saying is that the poorly trained and uninformed
>> think
>>>
>>> these signals are going to protect them  They mistake the sound of
> the
>>> signal as telling them it is okay to cross instead of what it really
>>> says.
>>> The light just changed.
>>> Robert Miller, Who I like and respect and have served on State Boards
>>> with
>>> on Voting Access, and is the former State President of the FCB, was
>> just
>>> hit
>>> last week by a driver making a right on red at an audible signal and
>> got
>>> his
>>> leg broken.  Lucky his guide dog was not hurt, just shaken up.
>>> I know Robert and I know that he is a good traveler.  It just shows
>> that
>>>
>>> even a good traveler and can be lulled in to a false sense of
>> protection
>>> by
>>> these devices.  If he had been less intent on crossing the street and
>>> using
>>> the audible signal, and used his hearing, he might not have been hit
>>> because
>>> he would have been concentrating on using his hearing to detect the
>> car
>>> slowing down.
>>>
>>> I am sure the driver was at fault here, but that doesn't help Robert.
>>> He is
>>> the eleventh blind person to get hit just since the beginning of
>> October
>>>
>>> here in Florida.  Recently two students, returning to the Daytona
>>> Center,
>>> after dark, were struck when crossing at the old audible signal
>> outside
>>> of
>>> the center.  This signal turns the lights red in all 4 directions at
>> the
>>>
>>> same time, so go figure.   ,
>>> Ed Hudson's mother, who was blind, was struck and killed in the same
>>> month.
>>> Ed is the director of the Florida State Training Center in Daytona.
>>> She was not using a audible signal as far as I know, but it was the
>> week
>>> of
>>> the Daytona 500 and traffic is crazy there.  Eleven deaths alone in
>> that
>>>
>>> week from traffic accidents.
>>>
>>> As for the K-NFB Reader, It is a very new piece of technology and has
>>> lots
>>> of potential.
>>> The NFB helped fund some of the engineering research and helped to
> get
>>> grants for the field test units, just as we helped fund the invention
>> of
>>> OCR
>>> and Pattern Recognition Software.  As an engineer, I can tell you
> that
>>> such
>>> cost can be very high.  The only way to get the unit cost down is to
>>> make
>>> more units and make them cheaper.
>>> The K-NFB Reader will grow in the coming years and it will do more.
>> One
>>>
>>> idea has the reader being able to scan and translate foreign
> languages
>>> in to
>>> speech .  Imagine scanning a cafe menu written in French and have it
>>> read to
>>> you in English or maybe Japanese.  How about identifying the restroom
>>> sign
>>> written in Chinese or Pollish.  This would open up the product to
>>> everyone
>>> who travels abroad, sighted or blind.  This could bring down the cost
>> so
>>>
>>> that blind people could afford them better like a digital camera or
>>> radio.
>>>
>>> The NFB has vision and really trys  to think about what it does and
>> what
>>>
>>> effects it will have on our Society.
>>>
>>> Have a Happy Holidays
>>>
>>> David Evans, NFBF
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>>>
>>>
>>>> Marsha:
>>>>
>>>> You make some good points, however, it is simplistic to say that NFB
>>>> wants or is against accommodations.  This just isn't true, however,
>>>> we believe that we should only ask for those accommodations that are
>>>> absolutely necessary.  If there are ways of doing something without
>>>> accommodations, then we believe they should be used.
>>>>
>>>> Our stance on audible traffic signals, as an example, has changed
>>>> somewhat over the years, we now agree that there are some complex
>>>> intersections which might benefit from them.  However, we are not in
>>>> favor of placing them more widely, as the ACB seems to be.
>>>>
>>>> The KNFB Reader and other devices are necessary to access printed
>>>> materials because everything won't ever be put into
>>>> Braille.  And instead of just griping about the lack of access, we
>>>> are working to develop some of the things we need.
>>>>
>>>> We dropped the AOL suit because it looked like we could get the
>>>> access we wanted via negotiation.  Access was the goal, not just a
>>>> lawsuit.  We now have the Target suit which so far looks like it may
>>>> do what we need and want.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 11:17 PM 12/3/2006, you wrote:
>>>>>David I have been in both NFB and ACB and I have made my choice
>>> becuase
>>>>>of those philosphies you speak of.  I however think both
>> organizations
>>>>>have good an bad points.   NFB is certainly stronger in its
>>> convictions
>>>>>and  more willing to take on controversy than ACB is no matter how
>>>>>misguided they may be.   ACB tends to stand back and I for one am
>>> happy
>>>>>to see ACB take a stand on this issue.  It is a welcome stand from
>>>>>sitting back and letting the world pass us by.  NFB has been very
>> good
>>> in
>>>>>getting some positive legislation passed but over the years is
>>> becoming
>>>>>more of a money making organization.  This bothers me.  I was equal
>>>>>disturbed when NFB so quickly dropped the AOL lawsuit and with NFBs
>>>>>partnerships with private industrie for new devices in order to make
>> a
>>>>>profit.  If you say we do not need accomodations then franks do we
>>> need
>>>>>the KNFB reader?  After all a lot of material is available on the
> web
>>> and
>>>>>we have screen readers.  Do we need screen readers will training
>> alone
>>>>>make us able to compete?  Ok I am going overboard but you get the
>>> gist.
>>>>>
>>>>>as for ths APS signal who knows maybe the tone or announcement made
> a
>>>>>difference in the case but do we know for sure.  You say you can
>>> listen
>>>>>for traffic patterns but surely you have noticed cars are quieter
> and
>>>>>quieter.  Trust me I have friends who have cars you would never
> hear.
>>>>>APS signals are not a replacement for good mobility skills but just
>>> add
>>>>>information the same information that is accessable to our sighted
>>> peers.
>>>>>
>>>>>I do not think ACB thinks we have to have the world fully
> accomodated
>>> in
>>>>>order to function on an equal footing but we do believe that these
>>>>>accomodations can make us more independant and help us to function
>>> even
>>>>>better.  Some of us may need them more than others.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your posts saddens me in that you are so concerned about how the
>>> sighted
>>>>>world sees you.  How sad to be so miserable that you feel you have
> to
>>> be
>>>>>perfect every moment in order not to reflect badly on the blindness
>>>>>community.  Have you ever met a perfect sighted person who never
>> makes
>>> a
>>>>>mistake?  There are no perfect blind people nor any perfect sighted
>>>>>people.  I am not putting you down I feel truly saddened by anyone
>> who
>>> is
>>>>>so concerned they must be a perfect example of blindness it is a
>> heavy
>>>>>cross to bear and one that will over time wear you down.
>>>>>
>>>>>I remember in my younger days feeling so volunerable and so
>>> deteremined
>>>>>to show the world I could be just like everyone else and I remember
>>>>>worrying about what everyone was thinking but then I had a
> revalation
>>> and
>>>>>realized that the majority of the sighted world are far less
>> concerned
>>>>>about how I do things than I was.  They simply have more things to
> do
>>> in
>>>>>their lives that are far more important then worrying about that
> poor
>>>>>pitiful blind girl.  As for the people who commented on blind money
>>> this
>>>>>is a sign of ignorance on that persons part.  Anyone who would even
>>> make
>>>>>those comments is obviously rude and ignorant in the first place.
>>>>>
>>>>>You were luck this time with your money but it does not always
> happen
>>>>>that way.  However when you first got that $20 bill did it tell you
>>> what
>>>>>it was so you could fold it or did you depend on the bank teller or
> a
>>>>>note identifier?
>>>>>
>>>>>I am an ACB member and proud of it and have been ever since I left
>>> NFB.
>>>>>I still have friends in NFB and we agree to disagree on some issues
>>> but I
>>>>>believe both groups have good points.  I am an ACB member who works
>> in
>>> a
>>>>>mainstream job and with only sighted coworkers yet they do not pity
>> me
>>> or
>>>>>look down on me.  I use my software and I compete on the same level.
>>> I
>>>>>took Call A Ride to work for years until a coworker and I got the
>> same
>>>>>shift.  I have APS signals in my area I fought for and I am glad
> they
>>> are
>>>>>here although they do not replace my mobility skills but give me the
>>> same
>>>>>information as the sighted world has.  I believe education and
>>> employment
>>>>>are top priorities for both groups but I believe that accessable
>> money
>>>>>may just help make us more employable.  The cost of changing vending
>>> and
>>>>>change machines is not a big deal they have been changed a lot in
> the
>>>>>last few years with all the new bills so the blindness issue wont
>>> enhance
>>>>>the cost any more.
>>>>>
>>>>>These are just my views an feel free to have your own.
>>>>>
>>>>>Robyn
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>