[nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer

[Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]]

Mike;
I think we are saying the same thing.  It depends how often you would be
using it.  By the way, what does a money identifier run on.  It would be
great if it were battery operated and I have no idea of its size and
weight.  Is it easy to cary around?
Terry Powers


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Freeman [mailto:k7uij at panix.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:46 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer

Terry:

The KNFB Reader has waaaaay more processor power than is needed to
identify 
currency. And it will take something like twenty seconds to take the
picture 
and process the picture; a money identifier, being tailored to the
purpose, 
can identify a bill in a second or two at most. If one has many bills to

identify, the money identifier is much more practical.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <powerst at dcpcepn.nci.nih.gov>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer


> Mike;
> If they can make the KNFB reader be able to read money, why would you
> say a money identifier is better.  I think it depends on what reasons
> you will be needind to check your money.  If you run a vending stand,
a
> money identifier is the best, but if you are just going to need to
> identify a bill once in a while, then the knFB reader will be able to
> read to you and also identify for you.  You can use it to sourt your
> money in a private place.  Why have two units when the job can be done
> by one.
> Keep up the good work with the KNFB reader, NFB!
>
> Terry Powers
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Freeman [mailto:k7uij at panix.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:24 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>
> The ability for the KNFB Reader to read currency is in the works.
Don't
> know
> how far along the development of this functionality is. IMO a money
> identifier will still be more efficient.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>
>
> j
> Dear Terri,
>
> I don't know.  I don't have one yet, but maybe someone on this list,
who
> has
> one , can try it and let us know.
>
> David Evans, NFBF
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <powerst at dcpcepn.nci.nih.gov>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>
>
>> Hi David E.;
>> Great message.  I do not depend on traffic signals because you do not
>> know when there might be a power failure and they might malfunction,
>> just like a street light.
>> Is there any chance the KNFB reader might be able to read money?
>> Terry Powers
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Evans [mailto:drevans at bellsouth.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 2:47 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>>
>> Dear Robin,
>>
>> I don't try to be perfect, just the best I can be.
>> My first example of a blind man when I was a kid was some guy in his
>> thirties, dirty and unkempt, standing on a corner with his cane and a
>> cup
>> full of pencils.
>> I could hear the things other people were saying about him and when I
>> found
>> that I was going blind, he was my first thought.
>> Lucky for me I believed in myself and made up my mind that I was not
>> going
>> to be that guy.
>> I just try to set the best example, of a blind man, that I can
because
>> other
>> people are seeing me every day on the street.
>> I do cross busy streets without the "aid" of beeping traffic signals
> and
>> I
>> don't need them because I have good travel skills.
>> This doesn't mean that I can't be hit by a car.  I have been hit
> twice,
>> but
>> this was back before I learned travel skills and both times I was on
a
>> bicycle and I was hit from behind by hit and run drivers.  Once was
> with
>> my
>> 3 year old daughter on the back of the bike.  The drivers were both
>> speeding
>> and in the second case, there was no one else on the road and they
> still
>> hit
>> me.  I am sure it was a senior, who likely should not have been
> driving
>> anyway as I live near a place call Century Village and that street is
>> their
>> raceway to State Road 7 to go shopping.
>> As for cars we can not hear,  I know all about them.  I built several
> of
>>
>> them back in the late 1960's and '70's.
>> I was part of the recent "Quiet Cars" conference that the NFB just
> held
>> at
>> their National HQ in November.
>> The new hybrid electric cars are going to prove a real problem for
all
>> pedestrians, not just the blind.  We tested two such cars , in a real
>> world
>> test outside the NFB center in Baltimore.
>> The Toyota was absolutely silent.  In the alleyway test I could not
> hear
>> the
>> car pass me at all and would not have known it except the mirror
> brushed
>>
>> against my belt buckle as it went by.
>> I am working now to get our state Department of Transportation to
>> request
>> that the matter be funded for study to find out what we can do about
>> this
>> situation.
>> I was one of the presenters at the conference as I built the Lunar
>> Rovers
>> that sit on the Moon and worked on some student projects involving
>> hybrids
>> back in college.
>> We had the same problem with the test cars hitting pedestrians  and
>> bicyclist.  , in and around the Stanford Campus,  Back then we
applied
> a
>>
>> whistle to the front bumpers, but I think that we will have to do
more
>> than
>> that now.
>>
>>
>> I never saw the need for audible signals as I get the same
information
>> from
>> the traffic that is moving or stopped.
>> Why spend $40,000 to 75,000 to tell me something I can already tell.
>> I would concede that there are some intersections, mostly because of
>> their
>> geometry could use a little help, but mostly in lining up to cross
the
>> street at odd angles.
>> These streets are not that numerous and can either be dealt with as
> they
>> are
>> or another crossing chosen.
>> I find that many blind people who use them take it for granted that
> the
>> cars
>> have or will stop.  I have pulled 3 such believers out of the way of
>> cars
>> running such lights in front of the now defunct Lighthouse of the
Palm
>> Beaches.
>> If you just trust the audible signal, it is just a matter of time
> before
>>
>> some driver running the light is going to bust you.
>> You must not get lazy but use your ears and common sense or wind up
>> somebody's hood ornament.
>> I guest what I am saying is that the poorly trained and uninformed
> think
>>
>> these signals are going to protect them  They mistake the sound of
the
>> signal as telling them it is okay to cross instead of what it really
>> says.
>> The light just changed.
>> Robert Miller, Who I like and respect and have served on State Boards
>> with
>> on Voting Access, and is the former State President of the FCB, was
> just
>> hit
>> last week by a driver making a right on red at an audible signal and
> got
>> his
>> leg broken.  Lucky his guide dog was not hurt, just shaken up.
>> I know Robert and I know that he is a good traveler.  It just shows
> that
>>
>> even a good traveler and can be lulled in to a false sense of
> protection
>> by
>> these devices.  If he had been less intent on crossing the street and
>> using
>> the audible signal, and used his hearing, he might not have been hit
>> because
>> he would have been concentrating on using his hearing to detect the
> car
>> slowing down.
>>
>> I am sure the driver was at fault here, but that doesn't help Robert.
>> He is
>> the eleventh blind person to get hit just since the beginning of
> October
>>
>> here in Florida.  Recently two students, returning to the Daytona
>> Center,
>> after dark, were struck when crossing at the old audible signal
> outside
>> of
>> the center.  This signal turns the lights red in all 4 directions at
> the
>>
>> same time, so go figure.   ,
>> Ed Hudson's mother, who was blind, was struck and killed in the same
>> month.
>> Ed is the director of the Florida State Training Center in Daytona.
>> She was not using a audible signal as far as I know, but it was the
> week
>> of
>> the Daytona 500 and traffic is crazy there.  Eleven deaths alone in
> that
>>
>> week from traffic accidents.
>>
>> As for the K-NFB Reader, It is a very new piece of technology and has
>> lots
>> of potential.
>> The NFB helped fund some of the engineering research and helped to
get
>> grants for the field test units, just as we helped fund the invention
> of
>> OCR
>> and Pattern Recognition Software.  As an engineer, I can tell you
that
>> such
>> cost can be very high.  The only way to get the unit cost down is to
>> make
>> more units and make them cheaper.
>> The K-NFB Reader will grow in the coming years and it will do more.
> One
>>
>> idea has the reader being able to scan and translate foreign
languages
>> in to
>> speech .  Imagine scanning a cafe menu written in French and have it
>> read to
>> you in English or maybe Japanese.  How about identifying the restroom
>> sign
>> written in Chinese or Pollish.  This would open up the product to
>> everyone
>> who travels abroad, sighted or blind.  This could bring down the cost
> so
>>
>> that blind people could afford them better like a digital camera or
>> radio.
>>
>> The NFB has vision and really trys  to think about what it does and
> what
>>
>> effects it will have on our Society.
>>
>> Have a Happy Holidays
>>
>> David Evans, NFBF
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>>
>>
>>> Marsha:
>>>
>>> You make some good points, however, it is simplistic to say that NFB
>>> wants or is against accommodations.  This just isn't true, however,
>>> we believe that we should only ask for those accommodations that are
>>> absolutely necessary.  If there are ways of doing something without
>>> accommodations, then we believe they should be used.
>>>
>>> Our stance on audible traffic signals, as an example, has changed
>>> somewhat over the years, we now agree that there are some complex
>>> intersections which might benefit from them.  However, we are not in
>>> favor of placing them more widely, as the ACB seems to be.
>>>
>>> The KNFB Reader and other devices are necessary to access printed
>>> materials because everything won't ever be put into
>>> Braille.  And instead of just griping about the lack of access, we
>>> are working to develop some of the things we need.
>>>
>>> We dropped the AOL suit because it looked like we could get the
>>> access we wanted via negotiation.  Access was the goal, not just a
>>> lawsuit.  We now have the Target suit which so far looks like it may
>>> do what we need and want.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> At 11:17 PM 12/3/2006, you wrote:
>>>>David I have been in both NFB and ACB and I have made my choice
>> becuase
>>>>of those philosphies you speak of.  I however think both
> organizations
>>>>have good an bad points.   NFB is certainly stronger in its
>> convictions
>>>>and  more willing to take on controversy than ACB is no matter how
>>>>misguided they may be.   ACB tends to stand back and I for one am
>> happy
>>>>to see ACB take a stand on this issue.  It is a welcome stand from
>>>>sitting back and letting the world pass us by.  NFB has been very
> good
>> in
>>>>getting some positive legislation passed but over the years is
>> becoming
>>>>more of a money making organization.  This bothers me.  I was equal
>>>>disturbed when NFB so quickly dropped the AOL lawsuit and with NFBs
>>>>partnerships with private industrie for new devices in order to make
> a
>>>>profit.  If you say we do not need accomodations then franks do we
>> need
>>>>the KNFB reader?  After all a lot of material is available on the
web
>> and
>>>>we have screen readers.  Do we need screen readers will training
> alone
>>>>make us able to compete?  Ok I am going overboard but you get the
>> gist.
>>>>
>>>>as for ths APS signal who knows maybe the tone or announcement made
a
>>>>difference in the case but do we know for sure.  You say you can
>> listen
>>>>for traffic patterns but surely you have noticed cars are quieter
and
>>>>quieter.  Trust me I have friends who have cars you would never
hear.
>>>>APS signals are not a replacement for good mobility skills but just
>> add
>>>>information the same information that is accessable to our sighted
>> peers.
>>>>
>>>>I do not think ACB thinks we have to have the world fully
accomodated
>> in
>>>>order to function on an equal footing but we do believe that these
>>>>accomodations can make us more independant and help us to function
>> even
>>>>better.  Some of us may need them more than others.
>>>>
>>>>Your posts saddens me in that you are so concerned about how the
>> sighted
>>>>world sees you.  How sad to be so miserable that you feel you have
to
>> be
>>>>perfect every moment in order not to reflect badly on the blindness
>>>>community.  Have you ever met a perfect sighted person who never
> makes
>> a
>>>>mistake?  There are no perfect blind people nor any perfect sighted
>>>>people.  I am not putting you down I feel truly saddened by anyone
> who
>> is
>>>>so concerned they must be a perfect example of blindness it is a
> heavy
>>>>cross to bear and one that will over time wear you down.
>>>>
>>>>I remember in my younger days feeling so volunerable and so
>> deteremined
>>>>to show the world I could be just like everyone else and I remember
>>>>worrying about what everyone was thinking but then I had a
revalation
>> and
>>>>realized that the majority of the sighted world are far less
> concerned
>>>>about how I do things than I was.  They simply have more things to
do
>> in
>>>>their lives that are far more important then worrying about that
poor
>>>>pitiful blind girl.  As for the people who commented on blind money
>> this
>>>>is a sign of ignorance on that persons part.  Anyone who would even
>> make
>>>>those comments is obviously rude and ignorant in the first place.
>>>>
>>>>You were luck this time with your money but it does not always
happen
>>>>that way.  However when you first got that $20 bill did it tell you
>> what
>>>>it was so you could fold it or did you depend on the bank teller or
a
>>>>note identifier?
>>>>
>>>>I am an ACB member and proud of it and have been ever since I left
>> NFB.
>>>>I still have friends in NFB and we agree to disagree on some issues
>> but I
>>>>believe both groups have good points.  I am an ACB member who works
> in
>> a
>>>>mainstream job and with only sighted coworkers yet they do not pity
> me
>> or
>>>>look down on me.  I use my software and I compete on the same level.
>> I
>>>>took Call A Ride to work for years until a coworker and I got the
> same
>>>>shift.  I have APS signals in my area I fought for and I am glad
they
>> are
>>>>here although they do not replace my mobility skills but give me the
>> same
>>>>information as the sighted world has.  I believe education and
>> employment
>>>>are top priorities for both groups but I believe that accessable
> money
>>>>may just help make us more employable.  The cost of changing vending
>> and
>>>>change machines is not a big deal they have been changed a lot in
the
>>>>last few years with all the new bills so the blindness issue wont
>> enhance
>>>>the cost any more.
>>>>
>>>>These are just my views an feel free to have your own.
>>>>
>>>>Robyn
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
> 


_______________________________________________
nfb-talk mailing list
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk