[nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer

Tue Dec 12 08:04:45 CST 2006

Mike;
If they can make the KNFB reader be able to read money, why would you
say a money identifier is better.  I think it depends on what reasons
you will be needind to check your money.  If you run a vending stand, a
money identifier is the best, but if you are just going to need to
identify a bill once in a while, then the knFB reader will be able to
read to you and also identify for you.  You can use it to sourt your
money in a private place.  Why have two units when the job can be done
by one.  
Keep up the good work with the KNFB reader, NFB!

Terry Powers

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Freeman [mailto:k7uij at panix.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:24 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer

The ability for the KNFB Reader to read currency is in the works. Don't
know 
how far along the development of this functionality is. IMO a money 
identifier will still be more efficient.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer

j
Dear Terri,

I don't know.  I don't have one yet, but maybe someone on this list, who
has
one , can try it and let us know.

David Evans, NFBF
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]" <powerst at dcpcepn.nci.nih.gov>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer

> Hi David E.;
> Great message.  I do not depend on traffic signals because you do not
> know when there might be a power failure and they might malfunction,
> just like a street light.
> Is there any chance the KNFB reader might be able to read money?
> Terry Powers
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Evans [mailto:drevans at bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 2:47 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>
> Dear Robin,
>
> I don't try to be perfect, just the best I can be.
> My first example of a blind man when I was a kid was some guy in his
> thirties, dirty and unkempt, standing on a corner with his cane and a
> cup
> full of pencils.
> I could hear the things other people were saying about him and when I
> found
> that I was going blind, he was my first thought.
> Lucky for me I believed in myself and made up my mind that I was not
> going
> to be that guy.
> I just try to set the best example, of a blind man, that I can because
> other
> people are seeing me every day on the street.
> I do cross busy streets without the "aid" of beeping traffic signals
and
> I
> don't need them because I have good travel skills.
> This doesn't mean that I can't be hit by a car.  I have been hit
twice,
> but
> this was back before I learned travel skills and both times I was on a
> bicycle and I was hit from behind by hit and run drivers.  Once was
with
> my
> 3 year old daughter on the back of the bike.  The drivers were both
> speeding
> and in the second case, there was no one else on the road and they
still
> hit
> me.  I am sure it was a senior, who likely should not have been
driving
> anyway as I live near a place call Century Village and that street is
> their
> raceway to State Road 7 to go shopping.
> As for cars we can not hear,  I know all about them.  I built several
of
>
> them back in the late 1960's and '70's.
> I was part of the recent "Quiet Cars" conference that the NFB just
held
> at
> their National HQ in November.
> The new hybrid electric cars are going to prove a real problem for all
> pedestrians, not just the blind.  We tested two such cars , in a real
> world
> test outside the NFB center in Baltimore.
> The Toyota was absolutely silent.  In the alleyway test I could not
hear
> the
> car pass me at all and would not have known it except the mirror
brushed
>
> against my belt buckle as it went by.
> I am working now to get our state Department of Transportation to
> request
> that the matter be funded for study to find out what we can do about
> this
> situation.
> I was one of the presenters at the conference as I built the Lunar
> Rovers
> that sit on the Moon and worked on some student projects involving
> hybrids
> back in college.
> We had the same problem with the test cars hitting pedestrians  and
> bicyclist.  , in and around the Stanford Campus,  Back then we applied
a
>
> whistle to the front bumpers, but I think that we will have to do more
> than
> that now.
>
>
> I never saw the need for audible signals as I get the same information
> from
> the traffic that is moving or stopped.
> Why spend $40,000 to 75,000 to tell me something I can already tell.
> I would concede that there are some intersections, mostly because of
> their
> geometry could use a little help, but mostly in lining up to cross the
> street at odd angles.
> These streets are not that numerous and can either be dealt with as
they
> are
> or another crossing chosen.
> I find that many blind people who use them take it for granted that
the
> cars
> have or will stop.  I have pulled 3 such believers out of the way of
> cars
> running such lights in front of the now defunct Lighthouse of the Palm
> Beaches.
> If you just trust the audible signal, it is just a matter of time
before
>
> some driver running the light is going to bust you.
> You must not get lazy but use your ears and common sense or wind up
> somebody's hood ornament.
> I guest what I am saying is that the poorly trained and uninformed
think
>
> these signals are going to protect them  They mistake the sound of the
> signal as telling them it is okay to cross instead of what it really
> says.
> The light just changed.
> Robert Miller, Who I like and respect and have served on State Boards
> with
> on Voting Access, and is the former State President of the FCB, was
just
> hit
> last week by a driver making a right on red at an audible signal and
got
> his
> leg broken.  Lucky his guide dog was not hurt, just shaken up.
> I know Robert and I know that he is a good traveler.  It just shows
that
>
> even a good traveler and can be lulled in to a false sense of
protection
> by
> these devices.  If he had been less intent on crossing the street and
> using
> the audible signal, and used his hearing, he might not have been hit
> because
> he would have been concentrating on using his hearing to detect the
car
> slowing down.
>
> I am sure the driver was at fault here, but that doesn't help Robert.
> He is
> the eleventh blind person to get hit just since the beginning of
October
>
> here in Florida.  Recently two students, returning to the Daytona
> Center,
> after dark, were struck when crossing at the old audible signal
outside
> of
> the center.  This signal turns the lights red in all 4 directions at
the
>
> same time, so go figure.   ,
> Ed Hudson's mother, who was blind, was struck and killed in the same
> month.
> Ed is the director of the Florida State Training Center in Daytona.
> She was not using a audible signal as far as I know, but it was the
week
> of
> the Daytona 500 and traffic is crazy there.  Eleven deaths alone in
that
>
> week from traffic accidents.
>
> As for the K-NFB Reader, It is a very new piece of technology and has
> lots
> of potential.
> The NFB helped fund some of the engineering research and helped to get
> grants for the field test units, just as we helped fund the invention
of
> OCR
> and Pattern Recognition Software.  As an engineer, I can tell you that
> such
> cost can be very high.  The only way to get the unit cost down is to
> make
> more units and make them cheaper.
> The K-NFB Reader will grow in the coming years and it will do more.
One
>
> idea has the reader being able to scan and translate foreign languages
> in to
> speech .  Imagine scanning a cafe menu written in French and have it
> read to
> you in English or maybe Japanese.  How about identifying the restroom
> sign
> written in Chinese or Pollish.  This would open up the product to
> everyone
> who travels abroad, sighted or blind.  This could bring down the cost
so
>
> that blind people could afford them better like a digital camera or
> radio.
>
> The NFB has vision and really trys  to think about what it does and
what
>
> effects it will have on our Society.
>
> Have a Happy Holidays
>
> David Evans, NFBF
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>
>
>> Marsha:
>>
>> You make some good points, however, it is simplistic to say that NFB
>> wants or is against accommodations.  This just isn't true, however,
>> we believe that we should only ask for those accommodations that are
>> absolutely necessary.  If there are ways of doing something without
>> accommodations, then we believe they should be used.
>>
>> Our stance on audible traffic signals, as an example, has changed
>> somewhat over the years, we now agree that there are some complex
>> intersections which might benefit from them.  However, we are not in
>> favor of placing them more widely, as the ACB seems to be.
>>
>> The KNFB Reader and other devices are necessary to access printed
>> materials because everything won't ever be put into
>> Braille.  And instead of just griping about the lack of access, we
>> are working to develop some of the things we need.
>>
>> We dropped the AOL suit because it looked like we could get the
>> access we wanted via negotiation.  Access was the goal, not just a
>> lawsuit.  We now have the Target suit which so far looks like it may
>> do what we need and want.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> At 11:17 PM 12/3/2006, you wrote:
>>>David I have been in both NFB and ACB and I have made my choice
> becuase
>>>of those philosphies you speak of.  I however think both
organizations
>>>have good an bad points.   NFB is certainly stronger in its
> convictions
>>>and  more willing to take on controversy than ACB is no matter how
>>>misguided they may be.   ACB tends to stand back and I for one am
> happy
>>>to see ACB take a stand on this issue.  It is a welcome stand from
>>>sitting back and letting the world pass us by.  NFB has been very
good
> in
>>>getting some positive legislation passed but over the years is
> becoming
>>>more of a money making organization.  This bothers me.  I was equal
>>>disturbed when NFB so quickly dropped the AOL lawsuit and with NFBs
>>>partnerships with private industrie for new devices in order to make
a
>>>profit.  If you say we do not need accomodations then franks do we
> need
>>>the KNFB reader?  After all a lot of material is available on the web
> and
>>>we have screen readers.  Do we need screen readers will training
alone
>>>make us able to compete?  Ok I am going overboard but you get the
> gist.
>>>
>>>as for ths APS signal who knows maybe the tone or announcement made a
>>>difference in the case but do we know for sure.  You say you can
> listen
>>>for traffic patterns but surely you have noticed cars are quieter and
>>>quieter.  Trust me I have friends who have cars you would never hear.
>>>APS signals are not a replacement for good mobility skills but just
> add
>>>information the same information that is accessable to our sighted
> peers.
>>>
>>>I do not think ACB thinks we have to have the world fully accomodated
> in
>>>order to function on an equal footing but we do believe that these
>>>accomodations can make us more independant and help us to function
> even
>>>better.  Some of us may need them more than others.
>>>
>>>Your posts saddens me in that you are so concerned about how the
> sighted
>>>world sees you.  How sad to be so miserable that you feel you have to
> be
>>>perfect every moment in order not to reflect badly on the blindness
>>>community.  Have you ever met a perfect sighted person who never
makes
> a
>>>mistake?  There are no perfect blind people nor any perfect sighted
>>>people.  I am not putting you down I feel truly saddened by anyone
who
> is
>>>so concerned they must be a perfect example of blindness it is a
heavy
>>>cross to bear and one that will over time wear you down.
>>>
>>>I remember in my younger days feeling so volunerable and so
> deteremined
>>>to show the world I could be just like everyone else and I remember
>>>worrying about what everyone was thinking but then I had a revalation
> and
>>>realized that the majority of the sighted world are far less
concerned
>>>about how I do things than I was.  They simply have more things to do
> in
>>>their lives that are far more important then worrying about that poor
>>>pitiful blind girl.  As for the people who commented on blind money
> this
>>>is a sign of ignorance on that persons part.  Anyone who would even
> make
>>>those comments is obviously rude and ignorant in the first place.
>>>
>>>You were luck this time with your money but it does not always happen
>>>that way.  However when you first got that $20 bill did it tell you
> what
>>>it was so you could fold it or did you depend on the bank teller or a
>>>note identifier?
>>>
>>>I am an ACB member and proud of it and have been ever since I left
> NFB.
>>>I still have friends in NFB and we agree to disagree on some issues
> but I
>>>believe both groups have good points.  I am an ACB member who works
in
> a
>>>mainstream job and with only sighted coworkers yet they do not pity
me
> or
>>>look down on me.  I use my software and I compete on the same level.
> I
>>>took Call A Ride to work for years until a coworker and I got the
same
>>>shift.  I have APS signals in my area I fought for and I am glad they
> are
>>>here although they do not replace my mobility skills but give me the
> same
>>>information as the sighted world has.  I believe education and
> employment
>>>are top priorities for both groups but I believe that accessable
money
>>>may just help make us more employable.  The cost of changing vending
> and
>>>change machines is not a big deal they have been changed a lot in the
>>>last few years with all the new bills so the blindness issue wont
> enhance
>>>the cost any more.
>>>
>>>These are just my views an feel free to have your own.
>>>
>>>Robyn
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>
>>
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