[nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer

[Steve Jacobson]

Marsha,

Since I have a moment while on lunch break, I am hoping you will allow me several additional comments.  I ran out of time and energy last night.  <smile>

As you may already know, many years ago, I'm not quite sure how many, the NFB took a position opposing what we now call APS's.  A few years ago, we passed 
another resolution that recognized that some things have changed since our original resolution.  Computer-controlled lights make many different kinds of traffic 
patterns possible so signals can be less predictable.  Also this has allowed complex intersections to bedealt with differently than might have been done in the past.  
Finally, there is a greater variety of accessible signals available.  Therefore, we recognize there may be times when an accessible signal is needed.  It doesn't sound 
as though there is much disagreement there.

However, I don't see a very close connection between quiet cars and APS's.  The existence of quiet cars might make it more difficult to here when a light changes, 
but I don't think we can settle for depending upon APS's to make up for quiet cars.  There are several approaches that might give us leverage.  I am not involved in 
that effort so I don't know the specifics, and frankly, it isn't easy to know how serious the problem is.  However, I have heard, or not heard, some of these quiet cars 
and we do need to give this problem some attention.

On a completely different subject, you talked some about the inconsistencies that sometimes exist when looking at capable blind people who perhaps hide the fact 
that they are not capable in all areas.   In my opinion, and I believe this opinion to be shared widely within the NFB, we need to encourage people to be all that they 
can be.  Most of us don't know what blind people can do when we start out, even if we are born blind.  I thought I was a pretty capable person when I came out of 
school, and while I did all right in some areas, there were areas where I was very much lacking in confidence and skills.  I needed to see others doing things that I 
didn't know that blind people were doing before I tried to do some of the same things myself.  We are sometimes criticized for this, but I think being encouraged and 
gently pushed is a good thing.  

The other side of this is to try not to judge other people too harshly.  In my mind, what is important is that people try, as I said, to make the most of their abilities.  
However, some of us have it easier than others.  Other disabilities together with blindness can also have an impact.  Finally, there is more than one way to achieve 
indepence in most areas.  If someone is forced to hire a housekeeper because they do not believe they can do the job themselves, that is unfortunate.  If, on the 
other hand, one has cleaned their house and decides that it is worth hiring that job to be done, we should not be critical of that.  If I can handle mail and paperwork 
in two hours independently but can deal with it using a reader in an hour and a reader is available, I might well choose to do that because I value my time.  Dr. 
Jernigan gave a thought-provoking talk on this at a convention in 1993 called "The nature of Independence."  You might find this talk interesting in that it is not 
what people generally think of when they think of Dr. Jernigan.  He is one person who often would travel with another sighted person, but he could travel 
independently just fine.  To choose to walk sighted guide with someone because you are talking to them or perhaps you need to find someone in a crowd while 
knowing you could travel independently is a far different thing than walking sighted guide because you feel you have to.  We can raise these points with people, but 
to some degree, only the person involved knows their capabilities.

I would agree completely that an environment that might make someone afraid to admit that they need help in certain areas is unfortunate.  In the case you 
mentioned, it would be sad indeed if the individual would have liked to brush up on skills but didn't want to admit to others that he needed help.  on the other hand, 
blind people do not have a monopoly on the tendency to be good at certain things and not at others to the extent that help is needed.  We need to be able to 
choose these things, though, and not feel we have to have help in certain areas simply because we did not get adequate training.  Of course, I don't know what the 
particular circumstances were for the gentleman you mentioned.  It would be very sad if he felt he had to hide areas of difficulty, though, as might have been the 
case.

Thank you again for your willingness to dialog.  If you would be curious to read the "Nature of Independence" speech, it is on the NFB.ORG web site but I also 
have it in a text file and could send it to you as well.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson  

On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 20:41:12 -0600, MARSHA R WALLEN wrote:

>>Steve we seem to agree more than disagree in a lot of this.  I strongly
>>agree not every intersection needs APS signals and in all honesty it
>>would be way too costly to do this however as you say there are those
>>that simply do need them.  No APS signal should be put in place to
>>satisfy one individual but in places as the ones we have that are a
>>benefit to anyone who might need them.  I live in a very busy area in
>>west county and the intersections we are taking about are different.  One
>>is angles on a busy six lane street and the other is one of the few
>>intersections with a double right turn lane and some other problems. 
>>However in no way do you not have to posses decent mobility skills to
>>benefit from them.

>>On the issue of quiet cars we too in the ACB have discusses this issue
>>but lets be honest we are far less likely to do anything about this as
>>the manufacturers will work harder and harder to make cars queter so we
>>will have to look at other ideas and accomodations.  That battle with car
>>manufacturers is one we will never win.  Talk about big bussiness they
>>simply will not care.  So that in itself is a good argument in part for
>>APS signals becasue they make drivers aware as often the beep or tone may
>>make a driver pay attention.  However if you guys have better ideas on
>>how to deal with quiet cars I would love to know them.  It takes a
>>village as they say.

>>On the issue of the money here is the argument I have.  By making money
>>accessable you will in fact open up even more jobs for the blind.  We
>>could then handle more jobs involving money and without costly money
>>identifiers.  This would be a big plus to mainstream employment of the
>>blind.  While there are people in the vending program and other blindness
>>related programs who have managed to either secure or have their bosses
>>secure costly money identifiers to do their jobs when handling large sums
>>of money you simply cannot do this in private bussiness.  You cannot walk
>>in and apply for a job and then say Mr Manager I need a device to tell
>>the bills but if you could tell what they were when you walked in the
>>door how cool would that be.  

>>Lets look at the issue of employment.  Most of those I know who are the
>>working blind work in blindness related fields, i.e.VR counselors,
>>teachers, vendors, and or technology fields using access software.  Yes
>>there are blind folks out there doing other jobs but they are few and far
>>between.  Even my job as a travel consultant is somewhat a blind job in
>>that more and more the hospitality industry is hiring the blind for phone
>>work but when I started they had never hired a blind person at my company
>>and were quit hesitant.  I literally took in my own equipment and for
>>five years used it until I got a manager who said he thought it was crazy
>>in order to get a job I took in my own equipment and took over supplying
>>what I needed.  I explained to him you do what you have to do to get a
>>job and I wanted this job bad enough to do what I had to do to get it. 
>>You cannot just walk into an office for an interview and demand what you
>>need to do your job.  When I started we had under 40 people so the
>>company did not have to provide anything and if I had walked in to that
>>interview and siad you will get me this this and this I would not be
>>where I am now.  However how many blind clerks do you see in stores at
>>fast food restaurants, department stores, gas stations, any bussinesses? 
>>No they may not be the best job but they are better than unemployment in
>>my book.   However with easily identifiable money and registered adapted
>>for us then a  world of jobs open up.  Having money easier to identify
>>does not make us look helpless or unemployalbe but makes us look more
>>capable.  We want to get the unemployment rate down dont we so what we
>>can do to improve the gap is one step in that direction.  You may say we
>>have blind people in some of these jobs but what I have found is either
>>most are high partials or have some type of assistant who helps count
>>money if they have no expensive device to do it.  

>>Some of these people have secret lives away from the blindness community
>>so that you may not know what they really do.  I know of a man whom was a
>>very successful computer programmer for a major company and went on to
>>sell adaptive software and to all who knew him he was the most well
>>adjusted blind man in the world. He had all the training in the world. 
>>People in both organizations spoke of how successful this man was however
>>as I got to know the family I learned his dark secret.  I wont say his
>>name because he was a wonderful man who is no longer with us but he kept
>>a lot of secrets.  It turns out this successful man had a secret
>>agreement with a driver who would go on trips with him to drive and also
>>to help with all the paper work.  No one ever saw him when this guy did
>>his work so they did not know about the arrangement.  This man could not
>>cook nor clean for himself nor did his blind wife.  They had a
>>housekeeper who came in to clean for them and relatives who came over
>>each day to help them pick out clothes and get dressed.  Because they
>>were both diabetic and had other health issues they also had a visiting
>>nurse come in to give their insulin shots and test sugars.   This person
>>never went anywhere alone and while his job involved dealing with the
>>blind community he was able to keep enough of a distance that no one knew
>>his dark secrets.  I thought the world of this man as well but how sad to
>>keep such dark secrets and have to add this stress to your life.  Why do
>>people feel so compelled to hide what they can and cannot do.  He had 
>>training but for whatever reason it just did not work for him and once he
>>established a successful bussiness and respect of the blind community he
>>could not dare let anyone see how vulnerable he was or to ask for more
>>trianing because he knew it would be the start of his failure and his
>>ridicule.  I know of people in NFB who also are successful yet I have
>>never seen them walk without a sighted guide and on the rare occasions I
>>do they seem unsure of their own skils.  There are also those in NFB who
>>are in major denial of their blindness.

>>That is one issue I have with the NFB view.  I have seen a lot of people
>>join the NFB who recently lost sight.  Many of these people honestly are
>>not ready to admit they are blind and the philosphy that blindness is
>>just an inconvenience and we are just like everyone else and can do
>>anything anyone else can feeds on that desire not to admit they are
>>blind.  Lets face it blindness is a disability just like any other.  It
>>is not crippling and we can do most things that other people do but in a
>>different way but we are in fact blind and a lot of these newly blind
>>people are not ready to admit they have a problem and take the idea in
>>the wrong contest.  There is nothing wrong with being blind and you
>>cannot overcome it until you admit you are blind.  We certainly agree on
>>that point.  However while NFB cannot help how people take the philosphy
>>it is important to realize there are those who hide behind it as well. 
>>The same is true in ACB in that you cannot depend on other people to make
>>the world a perfect place for you and all the accomodations in the world
>>do not equal good solid blindness skills. 

>>Now I realize that those blind people who do not make a good impression
>>and do not have good skills may reflect badly on the rest of us but lets
>>be honest all people are different.  There are as many poorly skilled
>>sighted folks in this world and they took make the rest of us look bad
>>but it is important to realize that we are all different and some people
>>with all the training in the world will never be as successful as the
>>rest of us.  The bottom line what we really need to do is to educate the
>>public on our differences and to show them those who cannot master all
>>the skills of blindness are a small population and that we need to have
>>things available to them that can help and that accomodations may make us
>>more employable at lesser cost in the long run. 

>>I honestly believe fundamentally in a lot of ways we agree.  The issue of
>>importance of each issue comes up in both groups.  What is important to
>>one person may not be as important to the next so in my view each battle
>>is worth fighting  knowing that you can not win them all.  To me marking
>>my appliances is far easier than getting manufacturers to make them
>>accessable and I would rather concentrate on the money issue where you
>>may see it the other way.  I feel that identifiable money is one way to
>>help the employment issue and you may not feel this way but that
>>disagreement is in both groups.  

>>These are just my thoughts.

>>Robyn

>>I dont just sit around and talk about all this I submitted an idea to my
>>bosses to hire more blind and low vision people because overall we can
>>compete on a level playing field.  We want jobs and because of the
>>massive turnover in my proffession hiring blind individuals would be in
>>their best interest because 
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