[nfb-talk] nfb-talk Digest, Vol 7, Issue 3
David Evans
drevans at bellsouth.net
Sun Dec 3 21:15:35 CST 2006
Dear Sir,
I beg your pardon, The NFB has been doing what it can to help blind people
with employment.
I have seen more job posting on their job list in the last 2 years than
anything I have seen from any other organization.
The NFB is not an employment agency anyway.
If blind people want to get a job, they have to have the skills and go out
and find the darn thing.
I did. and most blind people that I know who are working have done the same
thing.
No one is going to just hand you a job. We all are not on some list
somewhere waiting for our name to come up in the list.
I have been fighting be side the NFB since 1991 to try to get the earnings
cap raised to encourage more blind people to attempt work and be able to
make a living.
Now that Congressman E.Clay Shaw is out of office and not chair of the
Social Security Committee anymore, maybe we can get it passed the next time
around.
It is not the NFB's fault that more blind people aren't working.
If more of us had gotten the support of other congressmen we would have
gotten it passed and maybe more people would be working today.
By the way, I haven't seen the ACB doing anything to help increase
employment among blind people.
David Evans, NFBF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Templet" <pjtemplet at cox.net>
To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] nfb-talk Digest, Vol 7, Issue 3
>I totally aggree, the battle over money being accessible is not one the NFB
> should be spending so much time discussing. The NFB needs to devote more
> energy and effort addressing the unemployment of blind persons. God knows
> the current NFB administration has failed and continues to fail when it
> comes to assisting blind persons being employed.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of nfb-talk-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 9:45 PM
> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: nfb-talk Digest, Vol 7, Issue 3
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: paper money -- did anyone hear about this? (T. Joseph Carter)
> 2. Re: paper money -- did anyone hear about this? (T. Joseph Carter)
> 3. Re: paper money -- did anyone hear about this? (T. Joseph Carter)
> 4. Re: paper money -- did anyone hear about this? (Alan Wheeler)
> 5. Open Letter to Marc Maurer (Rick E Morin)
> 6. Re: Open Letter to Marc Maurer (Wm. Ritchhart)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:34:58 -0700
> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <tjcarter at bluecherry.net>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] paper money -- did anyone hear about this?
> To: Laura Eaves <leaves1 at carolina.rr.com>, NFB Talk Mailing List
> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <20061202193458.GB11767 at bluecherry.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Things to consider on this issue:
>
> 1. The US Government has committed itself to redesigning our currency
> (save the $1 bill, which would interfere with too many vending machines
> and the like) every twenty years or so. Doing so supposedly helps keep
> the counterfeiters on their toes.
>
> 2. Most of the cost of making the currency accessible would be spent as
> the currency is redesigned anyway. Doing it at that time makes the
> extra money spent to make the redesigned bills more accessible small
> enough to not be worth arguing about.
>
> 3. Any tactile identification features added to the currency would not be
> made universal for years bordering on decades, even if the entire US
> money system were redesigned tomorrow at a cost of billions. You have
> to get the old bills out of circulation somehow, after all.
>
> 4. The problem with the note teller is its price. Nobody complains that
> clocks in public buildings are inaccessible to the blind because we can
> buy watches for under $20, just like any sighted person, which give us
> access to the time (complete with the addition of an annoying rooster
> sound which is amusing exactly once..)
>
> 5. A redesign that would cost nothing extra (over the cost of a redesign
> in the first place) would be to encode the denomination and serial
> number of the bill in some digital means printed right on the bill.
> This still has the decades-to-implement problem, however when the
> transition were complete you could easily replace a $270 device with a
> much smaller one at one tenth the price.
>
>
> All of that said, this isn't really about making money accessible. It's
> already accessible--how do you think I paid my Internet bill so I could
> post this message? This isn't a battle that needed to be fought. So the
> ACB has their priorities a bit screwed up--since when did that become news
> to anyone on this list?
>
> Probably the next round of redesigns will incorporate features to allow us
> to identify a random bill handed to us. It's nice to know that if my
> grandchildren are blind, they will not be short changed by someone handing
> them a one and telling them it's a five.
>
> Not that I was ever terribly worried about that anyway. I'm 28 and that's
> happened to me exactly one time. And I was fortunate even then because
> the person behind me saw what happened and told me what she saw. We had a
> conversation about how there was always one bad apple on a tree and how
> this had never happened before as we went to find the manager. I was
> given proper change and, given that the guy had pocketed the difference,
> he was fired on the spot.
>
> Like I said, that it probably won't be able to happen to my grandchildren
> if they are blind is a great thing. And they should take advantage of the
> opportunity to prevent it, by all means available. As should we--if we
> get some form of tactile identification system in our money, we'd be fools
> not to use it to identify the bills. It can be done, and it probably
> should be done, but we in the NFB have bigger fish to fry, as they say.
>
> Who wants some chips with that? *grin*
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2006 at 06:41:34PM -0500, Laura Eaves wrote:
>> The thing is, there is technology --and has been for years -- for
>> recognizing paper money. I have a note teller. Given it is a little
> pricy,
>> that probably excludes some persons, but shouldn't be a problem as a
>> business expense if a person works with money on the job. All we need is
>> another misconception about blindness that would make employers hesitant
> to
>> hire someone with a visual impairment. It's kind of like saying color is
>> unfair to blind people. Well, it is true things are color coded so
> persons
>> without color vision are at a disadvantage, but if we start nixing
>> everything in the environment as being exclusionary we will alienate the
>> world.
>> What do you think?
>> Comments welcome.
>> --le
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:42:45 -0700
> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <tjcarter at bluecherry.net>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] paper money -- did anyone hear about this?
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <20061202194245.GC11767 at bluecherry.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Terry, that's not a convenient system for me. I do occasionally have need
> to carry $50 and $100 bills. However, I can think of five different ways
> to have money folded for instant identification by size alone, and I have
> a wallet with two money pockets. As a result, I only need to use the
> three of them that involve at most one fold to keep my wallet from getting
> bulky.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2006 at 04:05:43PM -0500, Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]
> wrote:
>> Kori;
>> I limit myself to $20 and under. This only gives me 4 types of bills to
>> deal with and I can either fold them differently or either put them in
>> different slots of my wallet. I have found this to work fine. If I
>> strain a little I can still read a bill, so I can sourt bills myself.
>> Using different slots for bills also allows me to use a small wallet.
>> Terry Powers
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:44:21 -0700
> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <tjcarter at bluecherry.net>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] paper money -- did anyone hear about this?
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <20061202194421.GD11767 at bluecherry.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I never said it was a fake. I am saying the last time this came up, the
> decision was that the ADA mandated the money be changed, however the cost
> would be high, so the government didn't have to do it.
>
> On Wed, Nov 29, 2006 at 11:50:56AM -0500, Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]
> wrote:
>> Hi Joseph;
>> If it is a fake, How come an employee in my office saw something about
>> making money accessable for the blind, on last nights news?
>> Terry Powers
>> Also where did the e-mail about ACB come from?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 18:14:22 -0600
> From: "Alan Wheeler" <awheeler at neb.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] paper money -- did anyone hear about this?
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <200612030014.kB30EM1t021112 at ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Not only the cost, but getting all the current bills out of circulation.
> What a logistics nightmare.
>
>
>
>
> Alan Wheeler
> awheeler at neb.rr.com or alan_wheeler at neb.rr.com
> redwheel1 on skype
> http://alan-wheeler.blogspot.com/
> "Tell the people the truth and the country will be free"
> --Abraham Lincoln
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 1:44 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] paper money -- did anyone hear about this?
>
> I never said it was a fake. I am saying the last time this came up, the
> decision was that the ADA mandated the money be changed, however the cost
> would be high, so the government didn't have to do it.
>
> On Wed, Nov 29, 2006 at 11:50:56AM -0500, Powers, Terry (NIH/OD/DEAS) [E]
> wrote:
>> Hi Joseph;
>> If it is a fake, How come an employee in my office saw something about
>> making money accessable for the blind, on last nights news?
>> Terry Powers
>> Also where did the e-mail about ACB come from?
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.4/563 - Release Date: 12/2/2006
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 21:07:45 -0500
> From: "Rick E Morin" <rick.morin at comcast.net>
> Subject: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
> To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID:
>
> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAGa+zk6SF9IRuQkAoCRh7QEBAOLYU/6Uy9ERuQIAoCRh7QEAAADk
> PKoAABAAAAAFtPiapBOgSqWIPwLiKjirAQAAAAA=@comcast.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Dr. Maurer,
> I am an individual leading a full life who happens to be legally blind all
> my life. I speak for myself. The blindness community is very diverse and
> no
> one organization can nor should claim to be the "voice of the nation's
> blind".
> As diverse as the blindness community is, most agree that employment is
> the
> top issue. There is great divisiveness in the blindness community between
> those who are blind and those with low vision, and between the NFB and
> ACB.
> The divisiveness serves no purpose other than perpetuate society to pit
> one
> blind person against another on any given issue, slowing real progress to
> a
> crawl. I am outraged by your press release of November 29, 2006 regarding
> the Federal Court ruling on US Currency which has further divided the NFB
> and ACB at a time when we should be working more closely together.
> There are blind and vision impaired who are survivors and those who are
> victims. Whether you are a survivor or victim, is a matter of individual
> circumstance and choice. There are way too many individuals who are blind
> and vision impaired who feel beaten down by the system, subsist and allow
> themselves to be pitied. No organization promotes that lifestyle.
> You state "Machines are readily available to identify paper money for
> blind
> people who run businesses or handle large amounts of cash". The need to
> identify paper money is a need of all individuals who are blind and vision
> impaired, not only those who run businesses or handle large amounts of
> money.
> To deny that there are unscrupulous people who prey on the blind is
> irresponsible.
> The ACB brought this issue to the Federal Court, so that it could be
> judged
> based on the facts of the case. Using words like "misguided" disrespects
> the
> court. That does not serve the best interests of individuals who are blind
> and vision impaired who all too frequently need to fight for their rights
> in
> the court system. NFB, itself utilizes the courts extensively.
> I see absolutely no connection between the currency issue and it
> endangering
> the ability for blind people to seek employment. If anything, it will
> enhance employability in many areas.
> The American Council of the Blind is committed to equal participation in
> all
> areas of society.
> Mr. Maurer, you have damaged the credibility of the NFB and yourself by
> the
> contemptible manner in which the ACB was described in your official press
> release.
> Sincerely,
> Rick E. Morin
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 22:51:53 -0500
> From: "Wm. Ritchhart" <william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID:
>
> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAGa+zk6SF9IRuQkAoCRh7QEBAOLYU/6Uy9ERuQIAoCRh7QEAAADk
> PKoAABAAAAAFtPiapBOgSqWIPwLiKjirAQAAAAA=@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Rick,
>
> I think you need to reread the press release. I think you miss it's
> points.
>
> I also think you should understand whether you like it or not, the ACB
> has a philosophy that is vastly different from the NFB. So it is very
> rare when the two groups can work together. Don't expect it to happen
> anytime soon. I certainly don't wish it. My beliefs about blind people
> and our capabilities is vastly different than the beliefs of those ACB
> members whom I know. Where we in the NFB believe the blind are capable
> of reducing blindness to just one more characteristic, , the ACB
> believes that the blind need constant help from sighted people. The ACB
> views blindness as a tragedy and the NFB believes blindness is only a
> tragedy when the blind person is denied proper training and opportunity.
> The two views are totally different and totally irreconcilable.
>
> The blind community was split long before President Maurer's press
> release. It will remain split as long as blind people have different
> views on blindness. The blind community is like any other sub-community
> in our country. The different blindness groups attempt to educate the
> public and our law makers. Each group competes to have it's views heard
> and adopted. You may not like it. But the NFB is the group of people
> who have gained the respect and confidence of most law makers and of
> most of the public. So it is almost always the NFB view that is adopted
> by our elected officials.
>
> You take offence at President Maurer's saying that the National
> Federation of the Blind speaks for the blind. Again, whether you like
> it or not, it is a true statement. When the people who craft our laws
> want information on the blind, they go to the NFB. When any progressive
> and positive program for changing the lives of blind people is being
> implemented, you almost always will find the NFB is a critical player in
> it's implementation and the ACB is in opposition. If the people who
> make policy go to the NFB for information and guidance, than it is
> totally accurate for President Maurer to say that the NFB speaks for the
> Nations blind.
>
> If you doubt my statements, review ACB history over the past 50 years.
> List the things that the ACB has accomplished to improve the lives of
> our Nations blind. Then do the same exercise for the NFB. If you do it
> honestly, you will find that the ACB list is very short. The list of
> NFB accomplishments will be much longer. If the ACB wants our national
> leaders to take them seriously, the ACB needs to start developing
> positive ideas and programs to improve the lives of the blind and
> implementing them.
>
> Finally, I wish to address your complaint about the NFB position on
> accessible currency. Why do we need it? I am an ordinary totally blind
> man. I go to the ATM and get cash. I go to businesses and I spend the
> currency. I handle the existing currency just fine without
> modification. Is it necessary for me to have accessible money? No. I
> use the United Sates currency I have just fine as it exists. I may sort
> it by folding the bills in different ways. But that is no different
> than a sighted person sorting it by denomination. Accessible money
> would be a convenience and nothing more.
>
> Which is more important for the average blind person, a job to make
> money, or money that you can identify by touch. I believe the job is a
> necessity and the accessible currency is a convenience. From your note,
> it appears you believe the exact opposite about the currency. From your
> note, it appears you rate accessible money as being equal to or more
> important than having a job. To me and I would bet for most members of
> the NFB, having a good job that enables them to earn a lot of money,
> whether it is accessible or not, is far more important than whether the
> money is identifiable by touch.
>
> I imagine most NFB members would enjoy having accessible money. However
> I doubt any of us want accessible money. If having it means that we
> portray the average blind person as helpless and exploited. You may not
> see it. But portraying the blind as helpless and exploited is exactly
> what the ACB's law suit is doing.
>
>
> William Ritchhart
> Indianapolis, Indiana
>
>
>
>> _____________________________________________
>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rick E Morin
>> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 9:08 PM
>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Open Letter to Marc Maurer
>> Importance: High
>>
>> Dear Dr. Maurer,
>> I am an individual leading a full life who happens to be legally blind
>> all my life. I speak for myself. The blindness community is very
>> diverse and no one organization can nor should claim to be the ?voice
>> of the nation?s blind?.
>> As diverse as the blindness community is, most agree that employment
>> is the top issue. There is great divisiveness in the blindness
>> community between those who are blind and those with low vision, and
>> between the NFB and ACB. The divisiveness serves no purpose other than
>> perpetuate society to pit one blind person against another on any
>> given issue, slowing real progress to a crawl. I am outraged by your
>> press release of November 29, 2006 regarding the Federal Court ruling
>> on US Currency which has further divided the NFB and ACB at a time
>> when we should be working more closely together.
>> There are blind and vision impaired who are survivors and those who
>> are victims. Whether you are a survivor or victim, is a matter of
>> individual circumstance and choice. There are way too many individuals
>> who are blind and vision impaired who feel beaten down by the system,
>> subsist and allow themselves to be pitied. No organization promotes
>> that lifestyle.
>> You state ?Machines are readily available to identify paper money for
>> blind people who run businesses or handle large amounts of cash?. The
>> need to identify paper money is a need of all individuals who are
>> blind and vision impaired, not only those who run businesses or handle
>> large amounts of money.
>> To deny that there are unscrupulous people who prey on the blind is
>> irresponsible.
>> The ACB brought this issue to the Federal Court, so that it could be
>> judged based on the facts of the case. Using words like ?misguided?
>> disrespects the court. That does not serve the best interests of
>> individuals who are blind and vision impaired who all too frequently
>> need to fight for their rights in the court system. NFB, itself
>> utilizes the courts extensively.
>> I see absolutely no connection between the currency issue and it
>> endangering the ability for blind people to seek employment. If
>> anything, it will enhance employability in many areas.
>> The American Council of the Blind is committed to equal participation
>> in all areas of society.
>> Mr. Maurer, you have damaged the credibility of the NFB and yourself
>> by the contemptible manner in which the ACB was described in your
>> official press release.
>> Sincerely,
>> Rick E. Morin
>> << File: ATT00015.txt >>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>
>
> End of nfb-talk Digest, Vol 7, Issue 3
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>
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