[nfb-talk] ACB members in NFB

James Aldrich jkaldrich at qwest.net
Fri Aug 11 00:51:46 CDT 2006 

A jerk by any other name is still a jerk!  It is not what you ask which is 
offensive but how you are going about asking and demanding what you say you 
should have.

Thanks to the new adobe reader I have in my PC with windows XP home, I was 
able to read a manual on a battery powered lawn mower which I found on 
Amazon dot com.  I was able to find out what I needed to understand before 
leaving the document.  I could have easily saved the document and change it 
to another text format if I had desired to do so.  Accessibility is more 
than braille yet I could have put this onto my notetaker and read it if I 
wanted to do so.  Readers are still a part of making some documents 
accessible whether you like it or not.

I would suggest all on this list ignore Joe's posts.  This is what he 
thrives on so hit the delete key and go on!  That's what I intend to do.

Jim


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "joe harcz" <michiganadapt at peoplepc.com>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] ACB members in NFB


> The term "moron" sir is offensive to people with cognitive disabilities.
>
> But thank you for putting me and others in their collective places.
>
> By the way I'm no longer a member of ACB either for what that is worth.
>
> I join the ranks of the masses of people who are blind or visually 
> impaired
> and who cannot stand the hypocrisy and arrogance of both organizations.
>
> Yet what NFB does is of public import as it does collect so much
> federal/taxpayer funding. And as a taxpayer myself I sure in the heck have
> the right to know how these monies are expended.
>
> Now if others don't care about such things that is not a matter that
> concerns me. But I thought this list dealt with NFB philosophies and
> actions.
>
> And I sure wonder openly about both of these things. Is it NFB philosophy 
> to
> denigrate anyone who questions policies? Is it NFB philosophy to denigrate
> anyone who asks for public accountability? Is it NFB philosophy to 
> denigrate
> and not answer direct questions about programs and so forth that are 
> funded
> at the public trough?
>
> Is it NFB philosophy to keep people who are blind in the dark related to
> information itself or to defer access to information to sighted third
> parties?
>
> Is that what you all mean BY THE term, "changing what it means to be 
> blind"?
>
> If changing what it means to be blind means I need to effectively hire a
> sighted reader and guide to be at my beck and call then I, for one sir 
> will
> have none of it.
>
> Joe
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "TO. Joseph Carter" <tjcarter at bluecherry.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: <john.l.wodatch at usdoj.gov>
> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] ACB members in NFB
>
>
>> Joe,
>>
>> It has been stated already that there is nothing that prevents a member 
>> of
>> the ACB from joining the NFB, aside from that both organizations' stand 
>> on
>> most of the major issues place them in a direct conflict of interest that
>> would prevent them from taking part in the governance of the 
>> organization.
>>
>> As for your continued presence on the list..  If you are removed from the
>> list, again, it will not be because you're blind, or even because you 
>> have
>> some problem with the way the NFB does things.  The ADA promises you 
>> won't
>> be excluded on the basis of a disability.  It said nothing about being
>> excluded on the basis of being a disruptive hate-spewing moron.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 09, 2006 at 11:56:55PM -0400, joe harcz wrote:
>>> This only goes to NFB's now known obligations under Title  III of the 
>>> ADA
>>> let alone those under Section 504 of the Rehab Act of 1973. You're
>>> philosophy does'tn trump the laws of this land which
>>>
>>>  you've and others have been informed of for years so ignorance of law
>>> does
>>> not exist.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe Harcz
>>>
>>> Sec.36.205 Association.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A public accommodation shall not exclude or otherwise deny equal goods,
>>> services, facilities, privileges, advantages, accommodations, or other
>>> opportunities
>>>
>>> to an individual or entity because of the known disability of an
>>> individual
>>> with whom the individual or entity is known to have a     relationship 
>>> or
>>> association.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sec.36.206 Retaliation or coercion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (a) No private or public entity shall discriminate against any 
>>> individual
>>> because that individual has opposed any act or practice made unlawful by
>>> this
>>>
>>> part, or because that individual made a charge, testified, assisted, or
>>> participated in any manner in an investigation, proceeding, or hearing
>>> under
>>> the
>>>
>>> Act or this part.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (b) No private or public entity shall coerce, intimidate, threaten, or
>>> interfere with any individual in the exercise or enjoyment of, or on
>>> account
>>> of his
>>>
>>> or her having exercised or enjoyed, or on account of his or her having
>>> aided
>>> or encouraged any other individual in the exercise or enjoyment of, any
>>> right
>>>
>>> granted or protected by the Act or this part.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (c) Illustrations of conduct prohibited by this section include, but are
>>> not
>>> limited to:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (1) Coercing an individual to deny or limit the benefits, services, or
>>> advantages to which he or she is entitled under the Act or this part;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (2) Threatening, intimidating, or interfering with an individual with a
>>> disability who is seeking to obtain or use the goods, services,
>>> facilities,
>>> privileges,
>>>
>>> advantages, or accommodations of a public accommodation;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (3) Intimidating or threatening any person because that person is
>>> assisting
>>> or encouraging an individual or group entitled to claim the rights
>>> granted
>>> or
>>>
>>> protected by the Act or this part to exercise those rights; or
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (4) Retaliating against any person because that person has participated
>>> in
>>> any investigation or action to enforce the Act or this part.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:29 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] ACB members in NFB
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Dear Joe,
>>> >
>>> > Yes, e-mail list are still able to police their list.
>>> > You can be thrown off a list or out of an organization just the same 
>>> > as
>>> > if
>>> > you go into a public store and pick a fight or become nasty or routty.
>>> > you
>>> > can be asked to leave and even taken in tow by the police and forced 
>>> > to
>>> > leave.
>>> > The same goes for our list serves.  We invite the Public to be apart 
>>> > of
>>> > them, but if you mis-behave we can ask you to leave or even toss you
>>> > out
>>> > on
>>> > your keyboard.
>>> > Just play nice in the sand box and don't throw sand and we can talk.
>>> > I am sure you can be reasonable if you want.
>>> > I would rather get to know , and see, that side of you than some 
>>> > angery
>>> > little boy.
>>> > I would rather look for places where we have things in common than
>>> > things
>>> > that will pull us apart.  How about you?  Don't you think that this is
>>> > a
>>> > better idea than trading insults and jabs.
>>> > As my generation was fond of saying.  Let's make peace, not War.  Live
>>> > and
>>> > let live.
>>> >
>>> > David Evans, NFBF
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> > From: "Alan Wheeler" <awheeler at neb.rr.com>
>>> > To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 8:35 AM
>>> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] ACB members in NFB
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Not to e-mail lists, though.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> >> From: "joe harcz" <michiganadapt at peoplepc.com>
>>> >> To: <william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>; "NFB Talk Mailing List"
>>> >> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> >> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:12 AM
>>> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] ACB members in NFB
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> NFB received more than $3.5 million from the Institute of Libraries
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> Museums for starting up Newsline alone. Several million in Federal
>>> >>> grants
>>> >>> that I've monitored from the Department of Ed. $500,000 from Housing
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> Urban Development for the "Jernigan Institute". And in fact millions
>>> >>> more
>>> >>> in
>>> >>> federal funding. That makes it, AAF, the Tenbroek Fund all 
>>> >>> recipients
>>> >>> of
>>> >>> federal funds in the clear meaning of Section 504.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thus 504 is applicable.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Joe
>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> >>> From: "Wm. Ritchhart" <william.ritchhart at sbcglobal.net>
>>> >>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 5:30 AM
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] ACB members in NFB
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Hi Joe,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> First, NFB does not receive Federal funding as you are thinking
>>> >>>> about
>>> >>>> it.  NFB may receive Federal grant money on occasion.  That money I
>>> >>>> am
>>> >>>> sure is used as the rules associated with receipt of the grant.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> As for throwing people off of NFB list, you are confusing
>>> >>>> organizations.
>>> >>>> We tolerate far more than your friends.  Is that why you are back?
>>> >>>> Did
>>> >>>> ACB throw you off their lists again?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> If you are here to engage in constructive dialog, then welcome.
>>> >>>> Otherwise, please spare us.  We have better things to do.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> William
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> >>>> On Behalf Of joe harcz
>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:08 PM
>>> >>>> To: lras at sprynet.com; NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] ACB members in NFB
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> iS nfb WILLING TO FOREGOE FEDERAL FUNDING? hARDLY, AND THUS THEY
>>> >>>> MUST
>>> >>>> COMPLY
>>> >>>> WITH DUEL MEMBERSHIP.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> aND THEY CANNOT BUMP ME FROM THESE LIST SERVES EITHER LEGALLY!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> jOE
>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> >>>> From: "Lloyd Rasmussen" <lras at sprynet.com>
>>> >>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:02 PM
>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] ACB members in NFB
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>I would take this question up with your state president in Arizona.
>>> >>>>>It
>>> >>>>> would depend on what this person did or continues to do in support
>>> >>>>> of
>>> >>>> the
>>> >>>>> ACB, particularly regarding areas where the NFB and ACB don't 
>>> >>>>> agree
>>> >>>>> on
>>> >>>> the
>>> >>>>> national or local level.  We have our policy against dual
>>> >>>>> memberships,
>>> >>>> and
>>> >>>>> I
>>> >>>>> believe it is a sound policy.  On the other hand, we need to be a
>>> >>>>> welcoming
>>> >>>>> organization, not treating everybody with suspicion.  The 
>>> >>>>> important
>>> >>>> thing
>>> >>>>> is
>>> >>>>> that we have a huge amount of work in front of us to change what 
>>> >>>>> it
>>> >>>> means
>>> >>>>> to
>>> >>>>> be blind.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, Maryland
>>> >>>>> Home:  http://lras.home.sprynet.com
>>> >>>>> Work:  http://www.loc.gov/nls
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> >>>>>> Behalf Of S Farwaneh
>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:51 PM
>>> >>>>>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] ACB members in NFB
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I have a question about how to best accommodate active ACB 
>>> >>>>>> members
>>> >>>> who
>>> >>>>>> try
>>> >>>>>> to join the NFB. My understanding is that NFB policies prohibit
>>> >>>> ACB/NFB
>>> >>>>>> dual membership. We have an ACB member in our midst who was
>>> >>>>>> informed
>>> >>>>>> about
>>> >>>>>> the policy, whereupon she denied her affiliation with ACB. We 
>>> >>>>>> have
>>> >>>>>> philosophical differences concerning this issue: Some members
>>> >>>>>> believe
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>> that
>>> >>>>>> we should take her word for it and allow her to participate fully
>>> >>>>>> in
>>> >>>> NFB
>>> >>>>>> activities in the hopes that she will ultimately become a
>>> >>>>>> functional
>>> >>>>>> member; others request that her terminated affiliation with ACB 
>>> >>>>>> be
>>> >>>>>> verified
>>> >>>>>> to  ensure that our chapters are not infiltrated by ACB members
>>> >>>>>> who
>>> >>>>>> believe
>>> >>>>>> that their mission is to 'reform' the NFB.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I wonder if you have a similar experience to report, and what the
>>> >>>> best
>>> >>>>>> strategy is to expand our membership without jeopardizing our
>>> >>>> philosophy
>>> >>>>>> and policies.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Thanks,
>>> >>>>>> Samira Farwaneh
>>> >>>>>> Tucson Chapter, NFBA
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Samira Farwaneh
>>> >>>>>> Assistant Professor, Arabic Language and Linguistics
>>> >>>>>> Department of Near Eastern Studies
>>> >>>>>> Department of Linguistics
>>> >>>>>> Second Language Acquisition and Teaching Program
>>> >>>>>> Louise Foucar Marshall Building
>>> >>>>>> 845 N Park Avenue, Room 440
>>> >>>>>> PO BOX 210158B
>>> >>>>>> University of Arizona
>>> >>>>>> Tucson, Arizona  85721-0158B
>>> >>>>>> Phone: (520) 621-8629 Or 621-8012
>>> >>>>>> Fax: (520) 621-2333
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> >>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> -- 
>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> >>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> >>>>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/409 - Release Date:
>>> >>>> 8/4/2006
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> -- 
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>>> >>>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/409 - Release Date:
>>> >>>> 8/4/2006
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> >>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> >>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
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>>> >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> >>>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/409 - Release Date:
>>> >>>> 8/4/2006
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -- 
>>> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>> >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> >>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/409 - Release Date:
>>> >>> 8/4/2006
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> >>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -- 
>>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> >>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date:
>>> >>> 8/5/2006
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> >> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nfb-talk mailing list
>>> > nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -- 
>>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date:
>>> > 8/5/2006
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/414 - Release Date: 8/9/2006
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/415 - Release Date: 8/9/2006
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/415 - Release Date: 8/9/2006
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk
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