[NAGDU] Uber Service Animal Self ID Program
Al Elia
al.elia at aol.com
Thu Apr 10 13:47:52 UTC 2025
JAnine – do you have any suggestions as to how a private company is
supposed to lawfully produce media that addresses cultural biases that
other cultures ahve against people with disabilities? Keep in mind that
our laws also protect against discrimination based on national origin,
so companies would have to produce largely the same media in all
languages, and not target drivers based on their background or language.
Imagine how the community would react to companies messaging drivers
that while they may have been brought up to believe that people with
disabilities must be protected from themselves and always accompanied by
a family member, the laws protect their right to live independently, and
that sometimes they do that by using a helper animal called a service
animal. Everyone would pile on the company for that messaging:
Disability advocates and progressives would cry foul at the notion that
the company was paying even lip-service to regressive ideas , while
disability advocates and conservatives would berate the companies for
coddling beliefes that go against the law.
For better or worse, we delegate lawmaking to lawmakers. We then require
people to comply with the law. One of the first things we learned in law
school was that ignorance of the law is no excuse. That rule is one of
the reasons why laws and regulations must be publicly available, so that
no one can claim that they had no notice of a law they are accused of
breaking. The rideshare companies are providing additional notice to
drivers that they must not only comply with the law generally, but that
they must specifically comply with the specific laws protecting our
right to travel with a service animal. They are doing that in the
languages that the drivers are most commonly using to ensure that the
drivers cannot claim a lack of notice. There is no cultural issue I am
aware of regarding obligations of contracts or violations of
tcontractual terms. If a driver agreees to those terms, and then
doesn’t so comply, they should swiftly be removed from the platforms,
not be educated based on cultural differences before or after the fact.
I suggest that the best way to address a cultures bias against people
with disabilities is to take a hard stance against that bias. We don’t
attempt to address other cultural biases with gentle education. We
would not attempt to educate a white contractor who refused to hire or
do business with non-white people by telling them that, notwithstanding
the beliefs they may have regarding the work ethics or
trustworthiness of non-white people, they can’t rfuse to hire or do
business with them. In fact, if we did, we would ourselves be guilty of
perpetuating those discriminatory beliefs. The same goes for cultural
biases against us as people with disabilities.
That said, if you have ideas for how to address cultural biases in a
manner that does not discriminate based on national origin and does not
perpetuate discrimination against us, I welcome discussion of those
ideas.
Yours,
/Æ
On 9 Apr 2025, at 16:39, Jenine Stanley wrote:
> That’s great that the notification is in different languages but
> that doesn’t address people’s culture. If people with disabilities
> are never seen and have no agency in their culture, how can we expect
> them to recognize the phrase “service animal”?
>
> I’ll say it again, not making excuses for denials. Just trying to
> give some advocacy ideas because the current scheme isn’t working as
> well as we thought or it should.
>
>
>> On Apr 9, 2025, at 4:18 PM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Leslie thanks this is interesting.
>>
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Leslie Hamric via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 4:05 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org <mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Leslie Hamric <lhamric930 at comcast.net
>> <mailto:lhamric930 at comcast.net>> ; nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Uber Service Animal Self ID Program
>>
>> According to Brianna, the service animal notification has been
>> translated into the 10 most spoken languages.
>> Leslie Hamric
>> Cello and Braille Music Teacher
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 9, 2025, at 12:33 PM, Jenine Stanley via NAGDU
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org <mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>
>> The only thing I can add to this discussion is a question about
>> potential training for drivers. Are we as “service animal” groups
>> enlisting allies within the driver community of various ethnic
>> groups, who speak various languages? Sometimes the message comes over
>> better from someone in your peer group.
>>
>> Not to make excuses at all for denials but I had one recently like
>> yours, Julie, in which the person had no idea what service animal
>> meant, what guide dog meant, what Seeing eye Dog meant. I had to tell
>> him I was blind and this was my helper dog before he understood. Then
>> he was fine and we had a lovely trip but prior to that we were at a
>> standstill.
>>
>> I’m wondering if we’re assuming too much and not factoring in our
>> own cultural sensitivity when it comes to the training ride share
>> companies provide.
>>
>> Otherwise, I’m incredibly frustrated on your behalf, Julie as I
>> keep reading accounts of denials like yours.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 9, 2025, at 9:35 AM, Melissa Allman via NAGDU
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org <mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Julie. I’m so frustrated on your behalf. The driver should get a
>> notification that says “rider has a service animal.” If they hit
>> cancel at that point, the app reminds them that it’s against the
>> law and Uber’s policy to deny access. If they still hit cancel,
>> then it’s supposed to trigger a streamlined complaint process
>> available to you in the app or through a link in your email. If the
>> drivers ignore the pop-up and just arrive and see you and then decide
>> they don’t want to take you and cancel, I would think that the
>> pop-up in your app about filing a complaint should still pop up. What
>> was your experience? Were you easily able to file complaints either
>> with the link in your email or the prompt in the app, or did you have
>> to dig around in the menus like we normally had to do and file a
>> complaint that way? This of course assumes that people just have time
>> to monitor what they’re getting in the app and file complaints
>> somewhat contemporaneously, but I still wanted to ask what your
>> experience was on that front.
>>
>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Julie A. Orozco via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 9:34 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org <mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>> Cc: Julie A. Orozco <kaybaycar at gmail.com
>> <mailto:kaybaycar at gmail.com>>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Uber Service Animal Self ID Program
>>
>> Good evening fellow guide dog users,
>>
>> I hope all of you are doing well. I am *finally* working my third
>> guide dog, a male chocolate lab from The Seeing Eye, called Xavier.
>> He’s a wonderful dog and a joy to work.
>>
>> Of course, working a dog brings about the inevitable Uber denials.
>> I’ve gotten three so far, and we’ve only been home a couple of
>> weeks. (Uber and Lyft are really terrible in the DC area.)
>>
>> For some reason, Sunday was just a bad day for me and Uber. I have
>> self ID turned on, so drivers should be notified when they arrive
>> that they are picking up someone with a service animal and that they
>> are required by law to allow us in their car. At least, that was my
>> understanding. But these drivers seem unable to understand the self
>> ID notification. Either that, or they are not being notified
>> properly.
>>
>> I had three drivers on Sunday going to and from a friend’s house.
>> The first driver took me, only when I pointed to my eyes and told him
>> I was blind and that my dog was working. (Sometimes, looking blind
>> has its advantages.) He did not understand when I asked him if the
>> app told him I was traveling with a service animal.
>>
>> The second driver, the one who was set to take me home, refused us
>> access. He did not speak English, but even when my friend and I
>> pulled out Google translate, he would not budge. He said no dogs in
>> his car and even canceled the ride. I am not sure if he received the
>> notification, but he seemed totally clueless about the whole service
>> animal thing. I don’t think he was faking it either because if so,
>> he wouldn’t have wanted to cancel the ride himself.
>>
>> The third driver didn’t want to take me at first either. I had to
>> explain to him what my dog was for, and once I did, he got it. I
>> asked him if he received the notification, and he said yes but that
>> he didn’t get a chance to read it. He said he could just get passed
>> it without reading it.
>>
>> So, my questions follow. Are drivers being notified and trained about
>> their requirements under law to take service animal teams in their
>> language of choice? Second, what does the notification system look
>> like? I imagined something that would pop up and force them to read
>> before proceeding with the trip. How are so many of my drivers
>> seeming confused about me and my guide dog? Is this still happening
>> to anyone else? Or do I live in the land of Uber access denials?
>>
>> I was hesitant about self ID, but I am happy with it because it
>> doesn’t alert the drivers until they arrive. It’s like Uber
>> telling them for me when I’m right there that the driver has to
>> follow the law and take me with my service animal. But it’s not
>> effective if drivers can just ignore the notifications.
>>
>> Apologies for the long email, and thank you for any perspective you
>> can provide.
>>
>> Julie
>>
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