[Mt-blind] Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 10
Nancy Cormier
nanecor at bresnan.net
Tue Jul 24 12:47:18 CDT 2007
From:
Nancy Cormier, COMS
Billings, Montana
R.E. Street crossing at Euclid and Benson
Jim,
Kayla stopped at the Montana Association of the Blind Summer
Orientation Program in Helena to introduce her puppy that she is
raising to Russell Smith and his guide dog. There were 4
orientation and mobility specialists who would have been happy to
orient Kayla with a safe route to the grocery store. There is also a
CVS drug store, coffee shop, and a Ben Franklin store in that
shopping complex.
Being one of the 4 orientation and mobility instructors for the SOP I
am very familiar with the intersection at Euclid/ Lyndale and
Benton. An auditory signal would be one solution. But in my
opinion it would be best to learn to cross with the sound of the
appropriate surge of traffic. Even without pushing the pedestrian
walk button there is adequate time to cross the 3-4 lanes on Benton.
But needless to say that intersection is complicated and I would
highly recommend some instruction with an orientation and mobility
instructor. Another solution is to locate the protected crosswalk
mid street crossing on Benton immediately west of the statue of Mary
at the main pedestrian entrance of Carroll College. This would be a
good place to put an auditory signal because it is designed for
pedestrians but there is no light and it is difficult to hear some of
the quieter cars stop and many stop quite a distance from the crosswalk.
A greater concerns at the intersection of Lyndale/Euclid and Benton
is that it diagonally intersects. When large trucks turn right off
of Lyndale onto Benton or from Benton tuning right onto Euclid, the
truck beds or trailers cut into sidewalk. I have observed trailers
of some trucks cut into the corner of the sidewalk almost 5 feet.
Because Lyndale (which becomes Euclid at that particular
intersection) is also highway 12, there will be many trucks, campers,
fire engines, etc., on both of those streets.
Another concern is the bicyclists who ride their bikes on the
sidewalk on the east side of Benton. The sound of the busy street
occludes the sound of a bicycle coming from behind or in front. The
sidewalk seems wide because the cement covers from the edge of the
street to the hedge But there is only about 4 feet walking space
because the inside 5 feet are obstructed by trees, light poles and
street signs. So the cyclists take the same route and pedestrians. I
am supposing there are many more cyclists when school is in session.
Thanks to Carl Schweitzer for bringing Kayla’s concern forward and
the person to contact. I will pass on my recommendations to the
district engineer, Michael Johnson. If Kayla would like to contact
me, I can give her the name of a local O & M who may be able to
address her concerns. She can contact me at mailto:nanecor at bresnan.net.
Nancy Cormier
On Jul 24, 2007, at 11:00 AM, mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
> Send Mt-blind mailing list submissions to
> mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> mt-blind-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Mt-blind digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Interesting update (Jim Marks)
> 2. Re: Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9 (teresa leese)
> 3. Re: Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9 (dmgina)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:28:50 -0600
> From: "Jim Marks" <blind.grizzly at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] Interesting update
> To: "'Montana Association for the Blind List'" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <005801c7cd78$d8d425a0$1280fc0a at gs.umt.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Both the MAB and NFB have a clear stand on audible pedestrian
> signals. If I
> can find some relevant resolutions, I will post them here.
> However, to
> summarize, we favor only vibro-tactile signals, the kind that make
> very
> little noise. And we want them only in places where they serve a
> verifiable
> purpose, a purpose beyond someone merely wanting them. There
> should be
> reasonable logic behind their installation.
>
> The trouble with audible pedestrian signals is that they are an answer
> looking for a question. We assume the signals are beneficial when
> they are
> often not helpful at all and sometimes even harmful to blind
> people. Blind
> and visually impaired people are almost always better off relying
> on their
> own blindness skills, which depend on listening well. The chirps
> and beeps
> of audible pedestrian signals can create barriers to those who are
> paying
> attention to the vehicle traffic by listening to the traffic. They
> add
> unhelpful and sometimes harmful noise. In some rare instances, the
> signals
> provide information that can be obtained in no other way. For
> these, we
> strongly urge the use of the kind of signals that are unobtrusive
> such as
> the vibro-tactile type. But then we also recommend getting good, high
> quality rehab. If the question is, how do blind people cross the
> street,
> then the first and best answer is they do it with good blindness
> skills. As
> mentioned, there are intersections that might be appropriate for
> vibro-tactile signals. These would be multi-lane crossings with short
> durations or high-speed, low traffic type of crossings. I've not
> crossed at
> Benton and Euclid, but I do not understand why this intersection
> would be
> difficult. And I do not understand how the signals would make a
> difference
> there. The devil would be in the details, but it's the details
> that are
> necessary to make sure we are doing the right thing.
>
>
>
> Jim Marks
> blind.grizzly at GMail.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mt-blind-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:mt-blind-
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Carl Schweitzer
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:28 PM
> To: blind
> Subject: [Mt-blind] Interesting update
>
> Everyone: Kayla is back on campus at Carroll College and yesterday I
> stopped to visit with her. In our conversation she asked if I
> could look
> into see if a auditory signal could be put in on the corner of
> Benton and
> Euclid in Helena. She has to cross that street to get to the
> grocery store
> and it is very difficult for her to tell when traffic is stopped.
> So I
> called a friend at the Department of Transporation and ask how or
> who we
> should talk to about getting an auditor traffic signal on that
> corner. He
> talked with the district manager for the Helena district and evidently
> Helena is about to get all new traffic signals all over the town.
> But the
> traffic engineers had not thought about auditory signals, but they are
> interested in learning and considering them. Kayla said that when
> she was
> in Poland that all of the intersection had auditory signals that
> make a low
> clicking sound that was not obnoxious like the one on Eleventh and
> Roberts
> in Helena (by the mall). So with the new traffic systems coming to
> Helena
> and the district engineer interested in the possible, the
> association has an
> opportunity to get something positive accomplished regarding
> traffic. Since
> the summer school is in Helena now, it would be great to have all
> of the
> traffic signals working for the blind as well as everyone else. The
> district engineer suggested that I write him a letter telling him
> about what
> I would like to happen. If any one else would like to write him or
> call
> him, his name is Michael Johnson and his address and phone number
> are: 200
> Smelter Avenue NE; PO Box 1359; Great Falls, MT 59403-1359; Phone:
> 406.454.5880 | 888.730.0898
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:01:31 -0600
> From: "teresa leese" <tsatt at sofast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
> To: <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <001301c7cd86$15d46020$f136e404 at your4105e587b6>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hello Dar,
>
> I am sorry if my message was a bit confusing to you. I am looking
> for those
> interested in my topic to be talking with others during the convention
> itself. There are many interests/hobbies individuals have to talk
> about
> other than their loss of sight. I am in hopes those interested will
> bring
> their topics to the convention for others to gain insight on. The
> plan is
> for the discussion groups to happen on Friday afternoon following
> the Board
> meeting and lunch.
>
> If you are planning to attend the convention and would still like
> to share
> your experiences with others, I will be happy to discuss things
> further with
> you. Thanks for the interest.
> Teresa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org>
> To: <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 11:00 AM
> Subject: Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
>
>
>> Send Mt-blind mailing list submissions to
>> mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> mt-blind-owner at nfbnet.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Mt-blind digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. is anyone interested (Teresa leese)
>> 2. Re: is anyone interested (dmgina)
>> 3. Hi there, (dmgina)
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:34:05 -0600
>> From: "teresa leese" <tsatt at sofast.net>
>> Subject: [Mt-blind] is anyone interested
>> To: <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
>> Message-ID: <000f01c7cc86$bda3a190$4536e404 at your4105e587b6>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> Hello to all,
>> I am wondering if anyone out there would be interested in leading
>> small
>> group discussions on interests/hobbies for the upcoming 62nd Montana
>> Association for the Blind State Convention. The idea is to share with
>> others
>> in small groups, about your interests/hobbies outside of your loss of
>> sight.
>> Discussing what your interest/hobby is, how you became interested
>> in it,
>> if
>> challenges were faced due to the loss of sight yet overcome, etc.
>>
>> I am in hopes that the convention this year will be one that can
>> inspire/motivate all members to share with others, we may be faced
>> with
>> loss
>> of sight, but life continues and life still holds many interests/
>> hobbies
>> that others like and do. For some that seems a daunting task, but
>> with the
>> sharing of information, others can learn more about and from our
>> statewide
>> membership and what they can do despite loss of sight. I would
>> also like
>> to
>> have those with sight participate in this process.
>>
>> Again, anyone interested please respond to this mailing or mail me at
>> tsatt at sofast.net
>> individually and I will discuss this further with you.
>>
>> Thank you for reading,
>> Teresa Leese
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 12:30:24 -0600
>> From: "dmgina" <dmgina at qwest.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] is anyone interested
>> To: "Montana Association for the Blind List" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
>> Message-ID: <042a01c7cc8e$5f3f3a30$642da8c0 at DMGina>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> Yes,
>> I am Dar,
>> I do knitting, cooking, and much more.
>> If there is anyone in the Billings area, I could help.
>> But if it is over the phone, then I couldn't.
>> You need hands on.
>>
>>
>> --Dar
>> www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
>> Every Saint has a past
>> Every Sinner has a future
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "teresa leese" <tsatt at sofast.net>
>> To: <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 11:34 AM
>> Subject: [Mt-blind] is anyone interested
>>
>>
>>> Hello to all,
>>> I am wondering if anyone out there would be interested in
>>> leading small
>>> group discussions on interests/hobbies for the upcoming 62nd Montana
>>> Association for the Blind State Convention. The idea is to share
>>> with
>>> others
>>> in small groups, about your interests/hobbies outside of your
>>> loss of
>>> sight.
>>> Discussing what your interest/hobby is, how you became interested
>>> in it,
>>> if
>>> challenges were faced due to the loss of sight yet overcome, etc.
>>>
>>> I am in hopes that the convention this year will be one that can
>>> inspire/motivate all members to share with others, we may be
>>> faced with
>>> loss
>>> of sight, but life continues and life still holds many interests/
>>> hobbies
>>> that others like and do. For some that seems a daunting task, but
>>> with
>>> the
>>> sharing of information, others can learn more about and from our
>>> statewide
>>> membership and what they can do despite loss of sight. I would
>>> also like
>>> to
>>> have those with sight participate in this process.
>>>
>>> Again, anyone interested please respond to this mailing or mail
>>> me at
>>> tsatt at sofast.net
>>> individually and I will discuss this further with you.
>>>
>>> Thank you for reading,
>>> Teresa Leese
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Mt-blind mailing list
>>> Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.12/910 - Release Date:
>>> 7/21/2007
>>> 3:52 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:22:50 -0700
>> From: dmgina <dmgina at qwest.net>
>> Subject: [Mt-blind] Hi there,
>> To: mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>> Message-ID: <20070723042250.dmgina at qwest.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> Theresa,
>> I would be happy to help out in any way I could.
>> Count me in.
>> Dar
>>
>>
>> Dar
>> www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
>> every saint has a past
>> every sinner has a future
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Mt-blind mailing list
>> Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>>
>>
>> End of Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
>> ***************************************
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:29:16 -0600
> From: "dmgina" <dmgina at qwest.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
> To: "Montana Association for the Blind List" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <050201c7cd89$ac13a250$642da8c0 at DMGina>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Yes I am interested.
> We will be there at the convention.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Dar
> www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
> Every Saint has a past
> Every Sinner has a future
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "teresa leese" <tsatt at sofast.net>
> To: <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 6:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
>
>
>> Hello Dar,
>>
>> I am sorry if my message was a bit confusing to you. I am looking for
>> those
>> interested in my topic to be talking with others during the
>> convention
>> itself. There are many interests/hobbies individuals have to talk
>> about
>> other than their loss of sight. I am in hopes those interested
>> will bring
>> their topics to the convention for others to gain insight on. The
>> plan is
>> for the discussion groups to happen on Friday afternoon following the
>> Board
>> meeting and lunch.
>>
>> If you are planning to attend the convention and would still like
>> to share
>> your experiences with others, I will be happy to discuss things
>> further
>> with
>> you. Thanks for the interest.
>> Teresa
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org>
>> To: <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 11:00 AM
>> Subject: Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
>>
>>
>>> Send Mt-blind mailing list submissions to
>>> mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> mt-blind-owner at nfbnet.org
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Mt-blind digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. is anyone interested (Teresa leese)
>>> 2. Re: is anyone interested (dmgina)
>>> 3. Hi there, (dmgina)
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:34:05 -0600
>>> From: "teresa leese" <tsatt at sofast.net>
>>> Subject: [Mt-blind] is anyone interested
>>> To: <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
>>> Message-ID: <000f01c7cc86$bda3a190$4536e404 at your4105e587b6>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>> Hello to all,
>>> I am wondering if anyone out there would be interested in
>>> leading small
>>> group discussions on interests/hobbies for the upcoming 62nd Montana
>>> Association for the Blind State Convention. The idea is to share
>>> with
>>> others
>>> in small groups, about your interests/hobbies outside of your
>>> loss of
>>> sight.
>>> Discussing what your interest/hobby is, how you became interested
>>> in it,
>>> if
>>> challenges were faced due to the loss of sight yet overcome, etc.
>>>
>>> I am in hopes that the convention this year will be one that can
>>> inspire/motivate all members to share with others, we may be
>>> faced with
>>> loss
>>> of sight, but life continues and life still holds many interests/
>>> hobbies
>>> that others like and do. For some that seems a daunting task, but
>>> with
>>> the
>>> sharing of information, others can learn more about and from our
>>> statewide
>>> membership and what they can do despite loss of sight. I would
>>> also like
>>> to
>>> have those with sight participate in this process.
>>>
>>> Again, anyone interested please respond to this mailing or mail
>>> me at
>>> tsatt at sofast.net
>>> individually and I will discuss this further with you.
>>>
>>> Thank you for reading,
>>> Teresa Leese
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 12:30:24 -0600
>>> From: "dmgina" <dmgina at qwest.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] is anyone interested
>>> To: "Montana Association for the Blind List" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
>>> Message-ID: <042a01c7cc8e$5f3f3a30$642da8c0 at DMGina>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>> Yes,
>>> I am Dar,
>>> I do knitting, cooking, and much more.
>>> If there is anyone in the Billings area, I could help.
>>> But if it is over the phone, then I couldn't.
>>> You need hands on.
>>>
>>>
>>> --Dar
>>> www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
>>> Every Saint has a past
>>> Every Sinner has a future
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "teresa leese" <tsatt at sofast.net>
>>> To: <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 11:34 AM
>>> Subject: [Mt-blind] is anyone interested
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello to all,
>>>> I am wondering if anyone out there would be interested in
>>>> leading small
>>>> group discussions on interests/hobbies for the upcoming 62nd
>>>> Montana
>>>> Association for the Blind State Convention. The idea is to share
>>>> with
>>>> others
>>>> in small groups, about your interests/hobbies outside of your
>>>> loss of
>>>> sight.
>>>> Discussing what your interest/hobby is, how you became
>>>> interested in it,
>>>> if
>>>> challenges were faced due to the loss of sight yet overcome, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I am in hopes that the convention this year will be one that can
>>>> inspire/motivate all members to share with others, we may be
>>>> faced with
>>>> loss
>>>> of sight, but life continues and life still holds many interests/
>>>> hobbies
>>>> that others like and do. For some that seems a daunting task,
>>>> but with
>>>> the
>>>> sharing of information, others can learn more about and from our
>>>> statewide
>>>> membership and what they can do despite loss of sight. I would
>>>> also like
>>>> to
>>>> have those with sight participate in this process.
>>>>
>>>> Again, anyone interested please respond to this mailing or mail
>>>> me at
>>>> tsatt at sofast.net
>>>> individually and I will discuss this further with you.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for reading,
>>>> Teresa Leese
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Mt-blind mailing list
>>>> Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.12/910 - Release Date:
>>>> 7/21/2007
>>>> 3:52 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:22:50 -0700
>>> From: dmgina <dmgina at qwest.net>
>>> Subject: [Mt-blind] Hi there,
>>> To: mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>>> Message-ID: <20070723042250.dmgina at qwest.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>>
>>> Theresa,
>>> I would be happy to help out in any way I could.
>>> Count me in.
>>> Dar
>>>
>>>
>>> Dar
>>> www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
>>> every saint has a past
>>> every sinner has a future
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Mt-blind mailing list
>>> Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>>>
>>>
>>> End of Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
>>> ***************************************
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Mt-blind mailing list
>> Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.14/912 - Release Date:
>> 7/22/2007
>> 7:02 PM
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mt-blind mailing list
> Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>
>
> End of Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 10
> ****************************************
-------------- next part --------------
[A]
From:
Nancy Cormier, COMS
Billings, Montana
R.E. Street crossing at Euclid and Benson
Jim,
Kayla stopped at the Montana Association of the Blind Summer Orientation Program in Helena to introduce her puppy that she is raising to Russell Smith and his guide dog.
There were 4 orientation and mobility specialists who would have been happy to orient Kayla with a safe route to the grocery store.
There is also a CVS drug store, coffee shop, and a Ben Franklin store in that shopping complex.
Being one of the 4 orientation and mobility instructors for the SOP I am very familiar with the intersection at [A]
[A]
Euclid/ Lyndale and Benton
.
An auditory signal would
be one solution.
But in my opinion it would be best to learn to cross with the sound of the appropriate surge of traffic.
Even without pushing the pedestrian walk button there is adequate time to cross the 3-4 lanes on Benton.
But needless to say that intersection is complicated and I would highly recommend some instruction with an orientation and mobility instructor.
Another solution is to locate the protected crosswalk mid street crossing on Benton immediately west of the statue of Mary at the main pedestrian entrance of Carroll College. This would be a good place to put an auditory signal because it is designed for pedestrians but there is no light and it is difficult to hear some of the quieter cars stop and many stop quite a distance from the crosswalk.
A greater concerns at the intersection of Lyndale/Euclid and Benton is that it diagonally intersects.
When large trucks turn right off of Lyndale onto Benton or from Benton tuning right onto Euclid, the truck beds or trailers cut into sidewalk.
I have observed trailers of some trucks cut into the corner of the sidewalk almost 5 feet.
Because Lyndale (which becomes Euclid at that particular intersection) is also highway 12, there will be many trucks, campers, fire engines, etc., on both of those streets.
Another concern is the bicyclists who ride their bikes on the sidewalk on the east side of Benton.
The sound of the busy street occludes the sound of a bicycle coming from behind or in front.
The sidewalk seems wide because the cement covers from the edge of the street to the hedge But there is only about 4 feet walking space because the inside 5 feet are obstructed by trees, light poles and street signs. So the cyclists take the same route and pedestrians. I am supposing there are many more cyclists when school is in session.
Thanks to Carl Schweitzer for bringing Kayla’s concern forward and the person to contact.
I will pass on my recommendations to the district engineer, Michael Johnson. If Kayla would like to contact me, I can give her the name of a local O & M who may be able to address her concerns.
She can contact me at
mailto:nanecor at bresnan.net
mailto:nanecor at bresnan.net
.
Nancy Cormier
On Jul 24, 2007, at 11:00 AM, mailto:mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org
wrote:
Send Mt-blind mailing list submissions to
mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
mailto:mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Mt-blind digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Interesting update (Jim Marks)
2. Re: Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9 (teresa leese)
3. Re: Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9 (dmgina)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:28:50 -0600
From: "Jim Marks" < mailto:blind.grizzly at gmail.com blind.grizzly at gmail.com
>
Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] Interesting update
To: "'Montana Association for the Blind List'" < mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
Message-ID: <005801c7cd78$d8d425a0$ mailto:1280fc0a at gs.umt.edu 1280fc0a at gs.umt.edu
>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Both the MAB and NFB have a clear stand on audible pedestrian signals.
If I
can find some relevant resolutions, I will post them here.
However, to
summarize, we favor only vibro-tactile signals, the kind that make very
little noise.
And we want them only in places where they serve a verifiable
purpose, a purpose beyond someone merely wanting them.
There should be
reasonable logic behind their installation.
The trouble with audible pedestrian signals is that they are an answer
looking for a question.
We assume the signals are beneficial when they are
often not helpful at all and sometimes even harmful to blind people.
Blind
and visually impaired people are almost always better off relying on their
own blindness skills, which depend on listening well.
The chirps and beeps
of audible pedestrian signals can create barriers to those who are paying
attention to the vehicle traffic by listening to the traffic.
They add
unhelpful and sometimes harmful noise.
In some rare instances, the signals
provide information that can be obtained in no other way.
For these, we
strongly urge the use of the kind of signals that are unobtrusive such as
the vibro-tactile type.
But then we also recommend getting good, high
quality rehab.
If the question is, how do blind people cross the street,
then the first and best answer is they do it with good blindness skills.
As
mentioned, there are intersections that might be appropriate for
vibro-tactile signals.
These would be multi-lane crossings with short
durations or high-speed, low traffic type of crossings.
I've not crossed at
Benton and Euclid, but I do not understand why this intersection would be
difficult.
And I do not understand how the signals would make a difference
there.
The devil would be in the details, but it's the details that are
necessary to make sure we are doing the right thing.
Jim Marks
mailto:blind.grizzly at GMail.com blind.grizzly at GMail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: mt-blind-bounces at nfbnet.org [ mailto:mt-blind-bounces at nfbnet.org mailto:mt-blind-bounces at nfbnet.org
] On
Behalf Of Carl Schweitzer
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:28 PM
To: blind
Subject: [Mt-blind] Interesting update
Everyone:
Kayla is back on campus at Carroll College and yesterday I
stopped to visit with her.
In our conversation she asked if I could look
into see if a auditory signal could be put in on the corner of Benton and
Euclid in Helena.
She has to cross that street to get to the grocery store
and it is very difficult for her to tell when traffic is stopped.
So I
called a friend at the Department of Transporation and ask how or who we
should talk to about getting an auditor traffic signal on that corner.
He
talked with the district manager for the Helena district and evidently
Helena is about to get all new traffic signals all over the town.
But the
traffic engineers had not thought about auditory signals, but they are
interested in learning and considering them.
Kayla said that when she was
in Poland that all of the intersection had auditory signals that make a low
clicking sound that was not obnoxious like the one on Eleventh and Roberts
in Helena (by the mall).
So with the new traffic systems coming to Helena
and the district engineer interested in the possible, the association has an
opportunity to get something positive accomplished regarding traffic.
Since
the summer school is in Helena now, it would be great to have all of the
traffic signals working for the blind as well as everyone else.
The
district engineer suggested that I write him a letter telling him about what
I would like to happen.
If any one else would like to write him or call
him, his name is Michael Johnson and his address and phone number are:
200
Smelter Avenue NE; PO Box 1359; Great Falls, MT 59403-1359; Phone:
406.454.5880 | 888.730.0898
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:01:31 -0600
From: "teresa leese" < mailto:tsatt at sofast.net tsatt at sofast.net
>
Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
To: < mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
Message-ID: <001301c7cd86$15d46020$f136e404 at your4105e587b6>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hello Dar,
I am sorry if my message was a bit confusing to you. I am looking for those
interested in my topic to be talking with others during the convention
itself. There are many interests/hobbies individuals have to talk about
other than their loss of sight. I am in hopes those interested will bring
their topics to the convention for others to gain insight on. The plan is
for the discussion groups to happen on Friday afternoon following the Board
meeting and lunch.
If you are planning to attend the convention and would still like to share
your experiences with others, I will be happy to discuss things further with
you. Thanks for the interest.
Teresa
----- Original Message -----
From: < mailto:mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org
>
To: < mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 11:00 AM
Subject: Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
Send Mt-blind mailing list submissions to
mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
mailto:mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Mt-blind digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. is anyone interested (Teresa leese)
2. Re: is anyone interested (dmgina)
3. Hi there, (dmgina)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:34:05 -0600
From: "teresa leese" < mailto:tsatt at sofast.net tsatt at sofast.net
>
Subject: [Mt-blind] is anyone interested
To: < mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
Message-ID: <000f01c7cc86$bda3a190$4536e404 at your4105e587b6>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hello to all,
I am wondering if anyone out there would be interested in leading
small
group discussions on interests/hobbies for the upcoming 62nd Montana
Association for the Blind State Convention. The idea is to share with
others
in small groups, about your interests/hobbies outside of your loss of
sight.
Discussing what your interest/hobby is, how you became interested in it,
if
challenges were faced due to the loss of sight yet overcome,
etc.
I am in hopes that the convention this year will be one that can
inspire/motivate all members to share with others, we may be faced with
loss
of sight, but life continues and life still holds many interests/hobbies
that others like and do. For some that seems a daunting task, but with the
sharing of information, others can learn more about and from our statewide
membership and what they can do despite loss of sight. I would also like
to
have those with sight participate in this process.
Again, anyone interested please respond to this mailing or mail me at
mailto:tsatt at sofast.net tsatt at sofast.net
individually and I will discuss this further with you.
Thank you for reading,
Teresa Leese
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 12:30:24 -0600
From: "dmgina" < mailto:dmgina at qwest.net dmgina at qwest.net
>
Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] is anyone interested
To: "Montana Association for the Blind List" < mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
Message-ID: <042a01c7cc8e$5f3f3a30$642da8c0 at DMGina>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Yes,
I am Dar,
I do knitting, cooking, and much more.
If there is anyone in the Billings area, I could help.
But if it is over the phone, then I couldn't.
You need hands on.
--Dar
www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
Every Saint has a past
Every Sinner has a future
----- Original Message -----
From: "teresa leese" < mailto:tsatt at sofast.net tsatt at sofast.net
>
To: < mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 11:34 AM
Subject: [Mt-blind] is anyone interested
Hello to all,
I am wondering if anyone out there would be interested in leading
small
group discussions on interests/hobbies for the upcoming 62nd Montana
Association for the Blind State Convention. The idea is to share with
others
in small groups, about your interests/hobbies outside of your loss of
sight.
Discussing what your interest/hobby is, how you became interested in it,
if
challenges were faced due to the loss of sight yet overcome,
etc.
I am in hopes that the convention this year will be one that can
inspire/motivate all members to share with others, we may be faced with
loss
of sight, but life continues and life still holds many interests/hobbies
that others like and do. For some that seems a daunting task, but with
the
sharing of information, others can learn more about and from our
statewide
membership and what they can do despite loss of sight. I would also like
to
have those with sight participate in this process.
Again, anyone interested please respond to this mailing or mail me at
mailto:tsatt at sofast.net tsatt at sofast.net
individually and I will discuss this further with you.
Thank you for reading,
Teresa Leese
_______________________________________________
Mt-blind mailing list
mailto:Mt-blind at nfbnet.org Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.12/910 - Release Date:
7/21/2007
3:52 PM
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:22:50 -0700
From: dmgina < mailto:dmgina at qwest.net dmgina at qwest.net
>
Subject: [Mt-blind] Hi there,
To: mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
Message-ID: < mailto:20070723042250.dmgina at qwest.net 20070723042250.dmgina at qwest.net
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Theresa,
I would be happy to help out in any way I could.
Count me in.
Dar
Dar
www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
every saint has a past
every sinner has a future
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Mt-blind mailing list
mailto:Mt-blind at nfbnet.org Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
End of Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
***************************************
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:29:16 -0600
From: "dmgina" < mailto:dmgina at qwest.net dmgina at qwest.net
>
Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
To: "Montana Association for the Blind List" < mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
Message-ID: <050201c7cd89$ac13a250$642da8c0 at DMGina>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Yes I am interested.
We will be there at the convention.
Thanks,
--Dar
www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
Every Saint has a past
Every Sinner has a future
----- Original Message -----
From: "teresa leese" < mailto:tsatt at sofast.net tsatt at sofast.net
>
To: < mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
Hello Dar,
I am sorry if my message was a bit confusing to you. I am looking for
those
interested in my topic to be talking with others during the convention
itself. There are many interests/hobbies individuals have to talk about
other than their loss of sight. I am in hopes those interested will bring
their topics to the convention for others to gain insight on. The plan is
for the discussion groups to happen on Friday afternoon following the
Board
meeting and lunch.
If you are planning to attend the convention and would still like to share
your experiences with others, I will be happy to discuss things further
with
you. Thanks for the interest.
Teresa
----- Original Message -----
From: < mailto:mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org
>
To: < mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 11:00 AM
Subject: Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
Send Mt-blind mailing list submissions to
mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
mailto:mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
mailto:mt-blind-owner at nfbnet.org mt-blind-owner at nfbnet.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Mt-blind digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. is anyone interested (Teresa leese)
2. Re: is anyone interested (dmgina)
3. Hi there, (dmgina)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:34:05 -0600
From: "teresa leese" < mailto:tsatt at sofast.net tsatt at sofast.net
>
Subject: [Mt-blind] is anyone interested
To: < mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
Message-ID: <000f01c7cc86$bda3a190$4536e404 at your4105e587b6>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hello to all,
I am wondering if anyone out there would be interested in leading
small
group discussions on interests/hobbies for the upcoming 62nd Montana
Association for the Blind State Convention. The idea is to share with
others
in small groups, about your interests/hobbies outside of your loss of
sight.
Discussing what your interest/hobby is, how you became interested in it,
if
challenges were faced due to the loss of sight yet overcome,
etc.
I am in hopes that the convention this year will be one that can
inspire/motivate all members to share with others, we may be faced with
loss
of sight, but life continues and life still holds many interests/hobbies
that others like and do. For some that seems a daunting task, but with
the
sharing of information, others can learn more about and from our
statewide
membership and what they can do despite loss of sight. I would also like
to
have those with sight participate in this process.
Again, anyone interested please respond to this mailing or mail me at
mailto:tsatt at sofast.net tsatt at sofast.net
individually and I will discuss this further with you.
Thank you for reading,
Teresa Leese
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 12:30:24 -0600
From: "dmgina" < mailto:dmgina at qwest.net dmgina at qwest.net
>
Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] is anyone interested
To: "Montana Association for the Blind List" < mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
Message-ID: <042a01c7cc8e$5f3f3a30$642da8c0 at DMGina>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Yes,
I am Dar,
I do knitting, cooking, and much more.
If there is anyone in the Billings area, I could help.
But if it is over the phone, then I couldn't.
You need hands on.
--Dar
www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
Every Saint has a past
Every Sinner has a future
----- Original Message -----
From: "teresa leese" < mailto:tsatt at sofast.net tsatt at sofast.net
>
To: < mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 11:34 AM
Subject: [Mt-blind] is anyone interested
Hello to all,
I am wondering if anyone out there would be interested in leading
small
group discussions on interests/hobbies for the upcoming 62nd Montana
Association for the Blind State Convention. The idea is to share with
others
in small groups, about your interests/hobbies outside of your loss of
sight.
Discussing what your interest/hobby is, how you became interested in it,
if
challenges were faced due to the loss of sight yet overcome,
etc.
I am in hopes that the convention this year will be one that can
inspire/motivate all members to share with others, we may be faced with
loss
of sight, but life continues and life still holds many interests/hobbies
that others like and do. For some that seems a daunting task, but with
the
sharing of information, others can learn more about and from our
statewide
membership and what they can do despite loss of sight. I would also like
to
have those with sight participate in this process.
Again, anyone interested please respond to this mailing or mail me at
mailto:tsatt at sofast.net tsatt at sofast.net
individually and I will discuss this further with you.
Thank you for reading,
Teresa Leese
_______________________________________________
Mt-blind mailing list
mailto:Mt-blind at nfbnet.org Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.12/910 - Release Date:
7/21/2007
3:52 PM
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:22:50 -0700
From: dmgina < mailto:dmgina at qwest.net dmgina at qwest.net
>
Subject: [Mt-blind] Hi there,
To: mailto:mt-blind at nfbnet.org mt-blind at nfbnet.org
Message-ID: < mailto:20070723042250.dmgina at qwest.net 20070723042250.dmgina at qwest.net
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Theresa,
I would be happy to help out in any way I could.
Count me in.
Dar
Dar
www.mypowermall.com/biz/home/5779
every saint has a past
every sinner has a future
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Mt-blind mailing list
mailto:Mt-blind at nfbnet.org Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
End of Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9
***************************************
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--
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7:02 PM
------------------------------
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End of Mt-blind Digest, Vol 13, Issue 10
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