[Mt-blind] Mt-blind Digest, Vol 8, Issue 2
Al Tompkins
tompkinsplace at earthlink.net
Sat Feb 3 16:59:05 CST 2007
Dan:
Voting in the last election was an exciting experience and I would hate to
give it up. If mail ballots are approved I hope that they leave the option
of voting by machine at least at the Clerk and Recorder offices.
Myrle
> [Original Message]
> From: <mt-blind-request at nfbnet.org>
> To: <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Date: 2/1/2007 8:30:48 PM
> Subject: Mt-blind Digest, Vol 8, Issue 2
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: sb358 (Daniel Burke)
> 2. Re: sb358 (Jim Marks)
> 3. Re: sb358 (dmgina)
> 4. Re: sb358 (James Aldrich)
> 5. Re: sb358 (Rik James)
> 6. SB 358 (Jerry Hutch)
> 7. Re: SB 358 (dmgina)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:23:10 -0700
> From: "Daniel Burke" <burke.dall at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] sb358
> To: "'Montana Association for the Blind List'" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <01e001c7462e$0872a700$6501a8c0 at upstairs>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"
>
> Carl,
>
> The MAB's policies are determined by the membership during conventions in
> the form of resolutions. The MAB's only policy on voting, therefore, is
for
> nonvisual access in voting. I don't think we specified what kind of
voting
> system or procedure, but that electronic voting systems give us
independence
> in voting, privacy and we need to be able to verify our own votes in that
> system.
>
> Jerry's points are excellent ones, but they have no bearing on blindness
or
> the MAB, nor do they reflect the policy laid out in our resolutions. My
> first inclination is for the MAB to remain neutral on this issue.
However,
> as I think about the comments Joy and Dar bring up I wonder if we might
not
> have a stand on this -- as opposed to the idea. But I will think on that
> some more. And I would be curious to hear from more members and from the
> Board.
>
> Thanks guys -- and thanks for bringing this to our attention Carl! It's
> good to have you at the Capitol tracking these kinds of things.
>
> Dan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mt-blind-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:mt-blind-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of dmgina
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 9:04 PM
> To: Breslauers; Montana Association for the Blind List
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] sb358
>
> Joy,
> I have to agree with you here.
> We have worked so hard to get the machines so we can vote.
> I sure wouldn't want to loose what we worked for.
> I thought the voting went quite well.
>
> --Dar
> wishing a
> backTpack
> call me at
> 406-259-1124
> Every Saint has a past,
> Every sinner has a future ,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Breslauers" <bjb5757 at bresnan.net>
> To: "mab" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 8:04 PM
> Subject: [Mt-blind] sb358
>
>
> >I wouldn't trust something as important as my vote to the mail system.
> > Besides, I'd have to have someone else fill out the ballot and there
would
> > go my privacy. I would prefer to use a voting machine, either on
election
> > day or by voting absentee. You can vote absentee before the deadline at
> > your convenience.
> >
> > Joy
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mt-blind mailing list
> > Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
1/30/2007
>
> > 11:30 PM
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mt-blind mailing list
> Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:43:44 -0700
> From: "Jim Marks" <blind.grizzly at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] sb358
> To: Breslauers <bjb5757 at bresnan.net>, "Montana Association for the
> Blind List" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <eb22d8830702011343off381adl94d0857cffbc767 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I agree with Joy. A mail ballot would create some accountability
> problems. Something as important as voting should be done the right
> way, which means either going to the polls or voting absentee. Mail
> ballots may be more convenient, but what our state needs is more
> pro-active participation, not convenience. Our existing system
> excludes no one, even those who are house-bound. Who are the main
> people behind the mail ballot? What do they hope to achieve?
>
> One last thing to mention is that the MAB elects its board members
> through a mail ballot. I've never like this system because it gives
> the power to those who never show up to conventions or chapter
> meetings. Our mail ballot also never gives members a chance to get to
> know who the candidates are. A better system would be for votes to
> occur at convention. Candidates could speak there and be interviewed
> by the members. Then we could vote on how our leaders would be. I
> realize this would exclude those who could not attend conventions, but
> this problem is less of a factor than the denial of choice to those
> who do show up. We ought to reward those who show up, not those who
> do not even when the reasons for not showing are valid. For example,
> I've heard many a potential member say they do not want to join the
> MAB because our election process does not empower active members and
> because the mail ballot is passive. People want to know that their
> participation is valued, and the mail ballot actually values those who
> do not participate over those who do. Besides that, voting at
> convention would be easier to administer, less expensive, and far more
> fun than mail ballots. We could celebrate the election process rather
> than waiting on the unpredictable mail ballot turnout.
>
> Jim Marks
> blind.grizzly at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> On 1/31/07, Breslauers <bjb5757 at bresnan.net> wrote:
> > I wouldn't trust something as important as my vote to the mail system.
> > Besides, I'd have to have someone else fill out the ballot and there
would
> > go my privacy. I would prefer to use a voting machine, either on
election
> > day or by voting absentee. You can vote absentee before the deadline at
> > your convenience.
> >
> > Joy
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mt-blind mailing list
> > Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
> >
>
>
> --
> Jim Marks
> blind.grizzly at gmail.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 15:03:04 -0700
> From: "dmgina" <dmgina at qwest.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] sb358
> To: "Montana Association for the Blind List" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <01f401c7464c$bfbb2400$642da8c0 at DMGina>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> This is Dar,
> How can we change the process, so voting would just be done by members at
> convention?
> Also if folks don't have a way to get to convention, is there any way
that
> they could get assistance?
> As happens with national?
> If they asked in their chapters to go to convention at a set time?
> So it could be voted on by the board?
> I know what I am thinking,
> but can't find the correct words to use?
> I hope you understand what I am trying to ask?
> Thanks,
>
>
> --Dar
> wishing a
> backTpack
> call me at
> 406-259-1124
> Every Saint has a past,
> Every sinner has a future ,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Marks" <blind.grizzly at gmail.com>
> To: "Breslauers" <bjb5757 at bresnan.net>; "Montana Association for the
Blind
> List" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] sb358
>
>
> >I agree with Joy. A mail ballot would create some accountability
> > problems. Something as important as voting should be done the right
> > way, which means either going to the polls or voting absentee. Mail
> > ballots may be more convenient, but what our state needs is more
> > pro-active participation, not convenience. Our existing system
> > excludes no one, even those who are house-bound. Who are the main
> > people behind the mail ballot? What do they hope to achieve?
> >
> > One last thing to mention is that the MAB elects its board members
> > through a mail ballot. I've never like this system because it gives
> > the power to those who never show up to conventions or chapter
> > meetings. Our mail ballot also never gives members a chance to get to
> > know who the candidates are. A better system would be for votes to
> > occur at convention. Candidates could speak there and be interviewed
> > by the members. Then we could vote on how our leaders would be. I
> > realize this would exclude those who could not attend conventions, but
> > this problem is less of a factor than the denial of choice to those
> > who do show up. We ought to reward those who show up, not those who
> > do not even when the reasons for not showing are valid. For example,
> > I've heard many a potential member say they do not want to join the
> > MAB because our election process does not empower active members and
> > because the mail ballot is passive. People want to know that their
> > participation is valued, and the mail ballot actually values those who
> > do not participate over those who do. Besides that, voting at
> > convention would be easier to administer, less expensive, and far more
> > fun than mail ballots. We could celebrate the election process rather
> > than waiting on the unpredictable mail ballot turnout.
> >
> > Jim Marks
> > blind.grizzly at gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/31/07, Breslauers <bjb5757 at bresnan.net> wrote:
> >> I wouldn't trust something as important as my vote to the mail system.
> >> Besides, I'd have to have someone else fill out the ballot and there
> >> would
> >> go my privacy. I would prefer to use a voting machine, either on
> >> election
> >> day or by voting absentee. You can vote absentee before the deadline
at
> >> your convenience.
> >>
> >> Joy
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Mt-blind mailing list
> >> Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Marks
> > blind.grizzly at gmail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mt-blind mailing list
> > Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
1/30/2007
> > 11:30 PM
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 16:08:20 -0700
> From: "James Aldrich" <jkaldrich at qwest.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] sb358
> To: "Montana Association for the Blind List" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <006901c74655$ddb157a0$6a2da8c0 at aldrich1bf20d9>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I certainly second this notion. Of course, we would need to determine
> whether districts should be retained or done away with in favor of
getting
> the best possible candidates for office no matter where they'd be from.
I
> guess the question is how can this change be implemented!
>
> Jim Aldrich
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Marks" <blind.grizzly at gmail.com>
> To: "Breslauers" <bjb5757 at bresnan.net>; "Montana Association for the
Blind
> List" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] sb358
>
>
> I agree with Joy. A mail ballot would create some accountability
> problems. Something as important as voting should be done the right
> way, which means either going to the polls or voting absentee. Mail
> ballots may be more convenient, but what our state needs is more
> pro-active participation, not convenience. Our existing system
> excludes no one, even those who are house-bound. Who are the main
> people behind the mail ballot? What do they hope to achieve?
>
> One last thing to mention is that the MAB elects its board members
> through a mail ballot. I've never like this system because it gives
> the power to those who never show up to conventions or chapter
> meetings. Our mail ballot also never gives members a chance to get to
> know who the candidates are. A better system would be for votes to
> occur at convention. Candidates could speak there and be interviewed
> by the members. Then we could vote on how our leaders would be. I
> realize this would exclude those who could not attend conventions, but
> this problem is less of a factor than the denial of choice to those
> who do show up. We ought to reward those who show up, not those who
> do not even when the reasons for not showing are valid. For example,
> I've heard many a potential member say they do not want to join the
> MAB because our election process does not empower active members and
> because the mail ballot is passive. People want to know that their
> participation is valued, and the mail ballot actually values those who
> do not participate over those who do. Besides that, voting at
> convention would be easier to administer, less expensive, and far more
> fun than mail ballots. We could celebrate the election process rather
> than waiting on the unpredictable mail ballot turnout.
>
> Jim Marks
> blind.grizzly at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> On 1/31/07, Breslauers <bjb5757 at bresnan.net> wrote:
> > I wouldn't trust something as important as my vote to the mail system.
> > Besides, I'd have to have someone else fill out the ballot and there
would
> > go my privacy. I would prefer to use a voting machine, either on
election
> > day or by voting absentee. You can vote absentee before the deadline at
> > your convenience.
> >
> > Joy
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mt-blind mailing list
> > Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
> >
>
>
> --
> Jim Marks
> blind.grizzly at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Mt-blind mailing list
> Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.19/663 - Release Date: 2/1/2007
> 2:28 PM
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 17:08:26 -0700
> From: "Rik James" <d28rik at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] sb358
> To: "'Montana Association for the Blind List'" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY132-DAV11BD54E263E0D2B70771FFDB9B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks, Jim, for drawing the parallels about mail balloting.
> I think it would take an act of the state legislature to override the
> multitude of arguments from the ain't broke don't fix it, and besides what
> about the folks too old and poor to go to convention so why can't they
vote
> defense. Attempts there have been to revise the MAB's constitution to
change
> the election process.
>
> But hey, I think it would mean more than the SB 358 would.
> On the proposal, I really have to read it before I form any opinion. And
so
> far I have not. Has anyone? Likely as not I would not support it for
> reasons already stated by others.
>
> Have a happy day everyone. And stay out of the wind!! They don't call it
> wind chill for nothing. I just got in from my hour walk, Drifted over
> sidewalks, and breezes that like to creep right through my good wool get
up.
> My cane plum froze to my mitten. Maybe I shoulda not put my hand in the
> minner net when I was fishing. (smile.) No. I was not fishing. Just
> hunting snow snakes.
>
>
> Rik
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mt-blind-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:mt-blind-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of James Aldrich
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:08 PM
> To: Montana Association for the Blind List
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] sb358
>
> I certainly second this notion. Of course, we would need to determine
> whether districts should be retained or done away with in favor of
getting
> the best possible candidates for office no matter where they'd be from.
I
> guess the question is how can this change be implemented!
>
> Jim Aldrich
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Marks" <blind.grizzly at gmail.com>
> To: "Breslauers" <bjb5757 at bresnan.net>; "Montana Association for the
Blind
> List" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 2:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] sb358
>
>
> I agree with Joy. A mail ballot would create some accountability
> problems. Something as important as voting should be done the right
> way, which means either going to the polls or voting absentee. Mail
> ballots may be more convenient, but what our state needs is more
> pro-active participation, not convenience. Our existing system
> excludes no one, even those who are house-bound. Who are the main
> people behind the mail ballot? What do they hope to achieve?
>
> One last thing to mention is that the MAB elects its board members
> through a mail ballot. I've never like this system because it gives
> the power to those who never show up to conventions or chapter
> meetings. Our mail ballot also never gives members a chance to get to
> know who the candidates are. A better system would be for votes to
> occur at convention. Candidates could speak there and be interviewed
> by the members. Then we could vote on how our leaders would be. I
> realize this would exclude those who could not attend conventions, but
> this problem is less of a factor than the denial of choice to those
> who do show up. We ought to reward those who show up, not those who
> do not even when the reasons for not showing are valid. For example,
> I've heard many a potential member say they do not want to join the
> MAB because our election process does not empower active members and
> because the mail ballot is passive. People want to know that their
> participation is valued, and the mail ballot actually values those who
> do not participate over those who do. Besides that, voting at
> convention would be easier to administer, less expensive, and far more
> fun than mail ballots. We could celebrate the election process rather
> than waiting on the unpredictable mail ballot turnout.
>
> Jim Marks
> blind.grizzly at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> On 1/31/07, Breslauers <bjb5757 at bresnan.net> wrote:
> > I wouldn't trust something as important as my vote to the mail system.
> > Besides, I'd have to have someone else fill out the ballot and there
would
> > go my privacy. I would prefer to use a voting machine, either on
election
> > day or by voting absentee. You can vote absentee before the deadline at
> > your convenience.
> >
> > Joy
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mt-blind mailing list
> > Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
> >
>
>
> --
> Jim Marks
> blind.grizzly at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Mt-blind mailing list
> Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.19/663 - Release Date: 2/1/2007
> 2:28 PM
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mt-blind mailing list
> Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:19:12 -0700
> From: Jerry Hutch <modrepro at mt.net>
> Subject: [Mt-blind] SB 358
> To: Montana Association for the Blind List <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <45C2ADB0.3070208 at mt.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
>
> Information from the State of Oregon on the Vote by Mail process and
> public acceptance of that method of voting. Look at the 5 year study of
> the process. Follow the links.
>
> Jerry
>
> http://www.sos.state.or.us/executive/votebymail.htm
> -------------- next part --------------
> Information from the State of Oregon on the Vote by Mail process and
public acceptance of that method of voting.? Look at the 5 year study of
the process.? Follow the links.
> Jerry
> http://www.sos.state.or.us/executive/votebymail.htm
http://www.sos.state.or.us/executive/votebymail.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 20:30:21 -0700
> From: "dmgina" <dmgina at qwest.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mt-blind] SB 358
> To: "Montana Association for the Blind List" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <05cc01c7467a$7846d190$642da8c0 at DMGina>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-8859-15";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi there,
> No matter what any other state does, it is ok to change something that
has
> happened for years.
> We as totals would love to have freedom.
> We don't get it, when everything has to be done by print,
> and we have to get someone to write it out for us.
> I feel more totally blind persons would join our chapters if they knew
they
> could vote on anything privately.
> The more we can use the machines, the better the machine will become.
> This is a dream I have had for years.
> to be able to vote on anything privately.
>
>
> --Dar
> wishing a
> backTpack
> call me at
> 406-259-1124
> Every Saint has a past,
> Every sinner has a future ,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry Hutch" <modrepro at mt.net>
> To: "Montana Association for the Blind List" <mt-blind at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:19 PM
> Subject: [Mt-blind] SB 358
>
>
> > Information from the State of Oregon on the Vote by Mail process and
> > public acceptance of that method of voting. Look at the 5 year study of
> > the process. Follow the links.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > http://www.sos.state.or.us/executive/votebymail.htm
> >
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mt-blind mailing list
> > Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
> >
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
1/30/2007
> 11:30 PM
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mt-blind mailing list
> Mt-blind at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/mt-blind
>
>
> End of Mt-blind Digest, Vol 8, Issue 2
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