[gui-talk] Microsoft Edge

Wed Aug 3 18:34:27 UTC 2016

As someone who has worked with the NFB's resolution committee, I can
share my experience. When it comes to big fishes like Microsoft,
Apple, google etc. the agenda is controled by those in the top of the
NFB's hierarchy. Any resolution trying to criticize Humanware would be
forcefully fought from the establishment side. For instance, you
cannot pass a resolution against humanware who has been claiming
Braillenote to be a fully functional computer, which it is not and is
fairly limited in the specific things it can do. When it comes to
reading daisy books, it is less efficient than their own victor reader
stream. On the other hand, resolutions against Apple are encouraged by
the establishment which does not contribute towards the annual
convention.
Coming back to Microsoft, it is probably true that they are doing
their best to make their product accessible but mindset is still to
give secondary status to the accessibility features. Take for example
Microsoft's latest version of outlook web app. You cannot anywhere
find how to enable light version of outlook which is more accessible.
Google has provided a link on the main screen for "basic html" and you
can make it your default view in gmail. If you look for something
similar with Microsoft, you cannot find it. The first few results you
find on google are how to change from outlook light to outlook
"standard" even when you are searching for how to enable the light
version on outlook web app.
As to the comment that Microsoft has tried to make windows 10
accessible but one should also qualify that by saying to make it work
wit screen readers. They could have been pressurized to make basic web
browsing and document editting possible using their built in screen
reader courtena or whatever they call it. Garry Wunder and James
Ghatial kind of technology experts, for whom I have a lot of respect,
have rightly argued in conventions that Jaws is essential for making
advanced features accessible in windows but not all of us need those
advanced features so why do we have to shell out about a thousand
dollars for a screen reader? So, the fact is that Apple has a lot to
show when it comes to accessibility in comparison to Microsoft but the
former has been targeted much more in the conventions than Microsoft.
I know that conventions are largely democratic in nature but then ...
I think I have said enough and may be straying towards side of off
topic.

On 8/3/16, Hoffman, Allen via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> IN alignment with Doug's comments here, it would not have been bad in my
> view to have a resolution to urge Microsoft to complete ongoing
> accessibility work on Edge in the least time feasible.  However, things like
> Microsoft Project and Dynamics could definitely use a lot more work and
> would be great additions to such a resolution in the future.  Resolutions
> can both praise progress and urge continued expedition of ongoing work in
> relationship to the overall impact and do help provide business need
> definition for providers.
>
>
>
> Allen Hoffman
> Deputy Executive Director
> The Office of Accessible Systems & Technology
> Department of Homeland Security
> 202-447-0503 (voice)
> allen.hoffman at hq.dhs.gov
>
> DHS Accessibility Helpdesk
> 202-447-0440 (voice)
> 202-447-0582 (fax)
> 202-447-5857 (TTY)
> accessibility at dhs.gov
>
> This communication, along with any attachments, is covered by federal and
> state law governing electronic communications and may contain sensitive and
> legally privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
> distribution, use or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  If you
> have received this message in error, please reply immediately to the sender
> and delete this message.  Thank you.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug Lee
> via gui-talk
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 11:58 AM
> To: Wayne Merritt via gui-talk
> Cc: Doug Lee
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Microsoft Edge
>
> I once heard an exec, I forget from which company, speaking at an NFB
> national convention about this. My best
> summary of this part of his presentation goes like this:
>
> At any given moment, I have piles of stuff on my desk. Some are cold, some
> are heating up, and some are on
> fire. The ones that get attention right away, of course, are the ones that
> are on fire. When you file a
> resolution against us on accessibility, you cause accessibility items on my
> desk to catch fire. That gives me
> an excuse to put them at high priority.
>
> I remembered that presentation for all these years as an indication that, at
> least sometimes, and because of
> the way companies are often overstocked with things they could do, what we
> would consider an attack in a
> personal context can be little more than a priority setter at a corporate
> level.
>
> I am not fond of harsh approaches to problems, personally. However, I credit
> Microsoft, Apple and others with
> understanding this priority-setting view of our actions. I think it takes
> wisdom to know when to use this
> approach and to know when it will be interpreted as such; but I make the
> point that this view of resolutions
> is a valid one.
>
> On Wed, Aug 03, 2016 at 10:45:02AM -0500, Wayne Merritt via gui-talk wrote:
> As a result of the NFB's latest convention resolution against Apple, I
> did some research on past NFB resolutions and found 20 since 2009
> which were directed at Google, Amazon and Microsoft regarding issues
> and inaccessible products. This is not meant to drudge up that whole
> debate, but rather to point out that we have accessible Kindle devices
> now thanks to years of the NFB "going after" Amazon through
> resolutions, protests, and other ways. Even Microsoft has said that
> Edge is not accessible, however they have also done great work in
> making Windows 10 accessible and their other products. Let's not give
> up on them just yet. If there were no Windows alternative to Edge for
> web browsing, that would be one thing. As was pointed out though,
> instead of Edge, we can use Internet Explorer, Firefox, Google Chrome,
> and so forth to access the web. We are not bound to Edge and nothing
> else.
>
> Kind regards,
> Wayne
>
> On 8/3/16, Hoffman, Allen via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Frankly, having tantrums should be reserved for those who are not
>> cooperative, and then "going after" folks in an antagonistic fashion is
>> something as last resort.  Microsoft is really turning up the heat
>> regarding
>> accessibility, of late, but does have work to do.  Slapping them when
>> they
>> are doing what we've been asking for now doesn't make a bit of sense.
>> Pushing accessibility is my job, and my experience is that its not an all
>> or
>> nothing game, and that to get what you want you have to be clear,
>> persistent, and escalate when you must, not when you feel like it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Allen Hoffman
>> Deputy Executive Director
>> The Office of Accessible Systems & Technology
>> Department of Homeland Security
>> 202-447-0503 (voice)
>> allen.hoffman at hq.dhs.gov
>>
>> DHS Accessibility Helpdesk
>> 202-447-0440 (voice)
>> 202-447-0582 (fax)
>> 202-447-5857 (TTY)
>> accessibility at dhs.gov
>>
>> This communication, along with any attachments, is covered by federal and
>> state law governing electronic communications and may contain sensitive
>> and
>> legally privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the
>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
>> distribution, use or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.?? If
>> you
>> have received this??message in error, please reply immediately to the
>> sender
>> and delete this message.?? Thank you.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> TaraPrakash
>> via gui-talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 3:35 AM
>> To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
>> Cc: TaraPrakash
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Microsoft Edge
>>
>> Sadly if you sponsor their annual convention they won't be as aggressive
>> toward  you.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Aug 3, 2016, at 3:54 AM, Don H via gui-talk <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The NFB has been known to go after companies that don't make their
>>> product
>>> or services accessible.  Why hasn't the NFB gone after Microsoft for not
>>> making the Edge Browser accessible?
>>>
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>>
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>
>
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> Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org                http://www.dlee.org
> SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
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