[gui-talk] [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet

[Susan Kelly]

David -

Thanks for checking.  Yes, I have many complaints over changes that the COA has made.  It used to be a relatively usable site, but they have gotten stuck on the "pretty visual image" trend, without continuing to make it functional for folks with visual impairment.  It is likely to become even more of a nightmare once they are forced to abandon their e-filer program and adopt the TurboCourt system utilized by Division One and the Az Supreme Court.

I also think it is the programs that used by the court reporters - we used to be able to at least request the file electronically from the reporter, in ASCII format that we could convert to whichever word processing program we used at the time, but it was always a cost on top of the prepared transcript, and is no longer even an option.

Will keep trying to get some system in place, though!

Susan

-----Original Message-----
From: David Andrews [mailto:dandrews at visi.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 2:45 PM
To: Susan Kelly; Blind Law Mailing List; Blind Law Mailing List; (gui-talk at nfbnet.org)
Subject: RE: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the internet

I went to the web site, and downloaded a file, from decisions link, and viewed it.  The file appeared to be straight text, and I was able to read it without problems.  Technically the file was not completely accessible,  but I would consider it functionally accessible.  There is no way to know if it was produced by the same software that produces the files you have to read.

Your problems are most likely with the software programs that take court documents and output PDF's.  I believe you said they were proprietary programs.  Solution would involve either changing them to produce accessible output, or remediating the PDF's to be more accessible.  In theory some of the remediation could probably be automated, with the right tools, but this would cost money.  My guess is that a lack of funds is ultimately behind many of the problems.  Although, the site I looked at did have accessibility problems.  You could probably use it once you got used to it, but many badly labeled, or inproperly labeled links etc.


Sorry I don't have better answer, if you can find someone to sue them over access, this might get their attention.

Dave

p.s.  Maybe the way to go through this is to request reasonable accommodations, and when they don't deliver use employment stuff instead of accessibility.

DA

At 02:41 PM 7/21/2015, Susan Kelly wrote:
>Not really - they are loaded within the case files on the Court of 
>Appeals website (Arizona Court of Appeals, division 2 
>http://www.apltwo.ct.state.az.us/apl2.cfm  ), but because I have to 
>first log-in to my e-filer account and then select "view case docs"
>to access them, my guess is that they are not.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David Andrews [mailto:dandrews at visi.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:28 PM
>To: Blind Law Mailing List; Blind Law Mailing List; 
>(gui-talk at nfbnet.org)
>Cc: Susan Kelly
>Subject: Re: [blindlaw] dealing with PDF documents posted on the 
>internet
>
>Without seeing one of the pdf's, it is hard to say, are these public files?
>
>Dave
>
>At 12:13 PM 7/21/2015, Susan Kelly via blindlaw wrote:
> >Apologies in advance for this cross-list posting, but I am desperate 
> >to find some workable answers.
> >
> >I am a county public defender whose duties include juvenile appeals.
> >The court websites in our county are of varying levels of 
> >accessibility, and even within those varying levels, more differences 
> >are permitted to exist because the court clerks all have different 
> >methods and standards.  When it comes to transcripts filed in the 
> >court of appeals, individual reporters upload their documents to the 
> >COA in the manner they see fit.  This will generally be in a PDF 
> >format, but it is generated by one of two proprietary programs 
> >available to them through the state office of the courts to generate 
> >written documents from stenographic notes.  These programs contain 
> >bizarre coding that, when the PDF is created within the program (as 
> >opposed to being scanned physically from printed paper) somehow is 
> >embedded in the PDF.  This causes everything from tiny blocks of the 
> >page being read in a non-sensical, patchwork fashion, to reading 
> >halting at the end of each page of the document, despite the settings 
> >within JAWS for a continuous reading experience.
> >
> >So far, the only even semi-effective route around this that we have 
> >found is to physically print out the transcripts, scan them on our 
> >already over-worked scanner, and then to run them through our equally 
> >taxed OCR program, which ironically is also provided by Adobe.  
> >Neither a print-to-PDF followed by OCR of the document nor the OCR 
> >program in JAWS itself is effective on our network for this task, 
> >thanks to peculiarities of the county network environment.  I do not 
> >have the luxury of purchasing any new or different equipment; even if 
> >I did, IT likely would not allow it to be run on "their" network.
> >
> >All that being said, is there a quicker / easier solution that I am 
> >missing?  I have changed the JAWS settings countless times, to no 
> >avail, which may also be a function of our network environment.
>
>          David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
>E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org