[gui-talk] Updating Adobe Flash Player
Jude DaShiell
jdashiel at shellworld.net
Tue Dec 10 22:25:42 UTC 2013
Smaller issues? Jaws 12 users can't read pdf files any more with adobe
reader since all of the files open in protected mode and then you have
to find a mouser to click the enable all features button on each
document you read. My employer is using its own version of jaws 12 with
windows 7 and used jaws 10 with windows xp and before this protected
craziness came down we were not only able to read with windows xp, we
could do accessibility checks on pdf files too. The signature panel is
another location where a mouser has to click stuff so us jaws users can
digitally sign documents when that becomes necessary too. As things
stand with Adobe two jaws users got more disabled with the latest
version upgrade and my employer does have a Section 508 co-ordinator
too who is well aware of what is going on with Adobe too. Both of the
jaws users keep the co-ordinator updated when our tech refreshed
computers don't turn into tech refresh rebooters. Happened to me twice
since October 8, first time was a dead hard drive and we get to find out
what the second problem is by tomorrow if field services makes it out to
look at the computer.
On Tue, 10 Dec 2013, Hoffman, Allen wrote:
> Personal opinion only:
> Adobe is a combination of frustrating problems and unique successes. Adobe Reader works pretty well, but has annoying issues all at once. Adobe flash player does a pretty good job of rendering accessible content if coded correctly, yet fails some basic issues still. The installer for Adobe flash should be an easy thing to keep fully accessible, but gets overlooked time and time again. For enterprise customers the installer often gets rolled in to packages so end-users don't even see it, while home users get the annoying installer. Adobe does have the knowledge to test for accessibility very very well, has shown ability to really make things accessible, but continues to miss some obvious and public facing issues, like this flash installer issue. I'd still give them a high score, or B+ as they do more than almost anyone else in this software business for accessibility and we have to acknowledge the good with the bad. It ain't a perfect world and Adobe is far far from o
ne of your worst offenders out there so you might think about constructive ways to engage them on these smaller issues. I understand any inaccessibility for the item you are using at the time is not a small issue, but just as with everything else, accessibility is part of the puzzle. Adobe deals with so many security issues it's amazing they can even support accessibility at the same time.
>
> Allen Hoffman
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:49 PM
> To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Updating Adobe Flash Player
>
>
> The NFB decided ten years ago to single out Target and sue them because
> their web site was not blind-friendly even though there were plenty of other
> shopping sites that were more accessible and thus offered reasonable
> alternatives to Target.com. So if the NFB had the wherewithall to sue
> Target, then they could certainly sue Adobe. Unlike the Target case, blind
> computer users who want to access web sites that contain flash content have
> no alternatives to Flash Player. Because Flash Player is so widely used,
> not being able to update it regularly to protect our computers against
> hackers and malicious attacks, to me, violates our civil rights under the
> ADA.
>
> Gerald
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List'"
> <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 11:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Updating Adobe Flash Player
>
>
> >I am not sure what legal basis we could use for a suit since Adobe is nbot
> >a
> > municipality and its website isn't necessarily used for e-commerce alone,
> > i.e., isn't necessarily subject to Title III of the ADA, nor does Adobe
> > receive funding (other than Federal contracts) from the Federal
> > government.
> > However, I'll start working on a resolution to submit to our 2014 national
> > convention to put NFB on record condemning and deploring some of these
> > shoddy practices. Perhaps we can allege that Adobe is discriminating
> > against
> > the blind by not ensuring that all "opt-out" provisions on its website are
> > accessible equally to blind and sighted.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerald
> > Levy
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 4:12 AM
> > To: Lloyd Rasmussen; Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk
> > Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Updating Adobe Flash Player
> >
> >
> > Which is why the NFB should seriously consider taking legal action against
> > Adobe Systems to force it to make its web site more blind friendly.
> >
> > Gerald
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lloyd Rasmussen" <lras at sprynet.com>
> > To: "Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List"
> > <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 9:14 PM
> > Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Updating Adobe Flash Player
> >
> >
> >>I didn't have a reader handy when I ran into this situation. So after the
> >>Flash update was completed, I used Add/Remove Programs to remove the
> >>Google
> >
> >>toolbar and Google Chrome before they had a chance to run. In each
> >>instance, they popped up a survey asking why I was uninstalling those
> >>Google programs. I told them that it was because their programs had
> >>become
> >
> >>a default installation with Adobe Flash updates, and that there didn't
> >>seem
> >
> >>to be an accessible way of preventing those defaults from taking effect.
> >>The technology exists, and even a few weeks ago you could uncheck those
> >>programs. I don't feel kindly to Adobe these days, in addition to Oracle.
> >> I am concerned about this situation also, because when my wife gets rehab
> >> to buy a PC for someone, they will inevitably make their systems less
> >> useable when these security upgrades come along, or they will expose
> >> their
> >
> >> state-bought equipment to security problems that could be prevented. A
> >> lot of people are getting computers but have minimal training in the
> >> level
> >
> >> of problem-solving we are discussing.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD
> >> http://lras.home.sprynet.com
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Mike Freeman
> >> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 1:12 PM
> >> To: 'Discussion of the Graphical User Interface,GUI Talk Mailing List'
> >> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Updating Adobe Flash Player
> >>
> >> And here's where a reader comes in handy.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerald
> >> Levy
> >> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 3:47 AM
> >> To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Updating Adobe Flash Player
> >>
> >>
> >> For your information, Adobe Flash Player has not been available for
> >> download
> >>
> >> on the Ninite site for a few months, so the only option is to download it
> >> from the Adobe site.
> >>
> >> Gerald
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
> >> To: "Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List"
> >> <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 7:00 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Updating Adobe Flash Player
> >>
> >>
> >>> It's never a good idea to use the adobe website to update software.
> >>> Your better option is to use http://www.ninite.com/ and that will
> >>> download an appropriate installer for your hardware and software. You
> >>> run the installer and ninite.com installs the adobe products for you
> >>> without all that extra garbage. That's how ninite.com installs
> >>> everything that's available on ninite.com and if you buy the pro
> >>> version, ninite.com will check the manufacturer's sites for you and let
> >>> you know when it's time to install the next updates. I'm surprised
> >>> ninite.com isn't known about and used more widely on those other blind
> >>> tech lists. I don't even want to write about adobe reader with jaws 10,
> >>> but that ninite.com site is well worth a visit.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2013, David Andrews wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I have forwarded your message to several influencial people within the
> >>>> NFB.
> >>>> Adobe, in my opinion is one of the worst main-line companies out there,
> >>>> in my
> >>>> opinion. In addition to the kinds of things you mention below, many of
> >>>> their
> >>>> tools for producing PDF's do a terrible job at producing accessible
> >>>> documents.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dave
> >>>>
> >>>> At 04:59 PM 12/5/2013, you wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> >There has been a lot of discussion over the past few days on a few
> >>>> >blind
> >>>> >tech-related mailing lists about the difficulty of updating Adobe
> >>>> >Flash
> >>>> >Player without also installing unwanted software such as Google Chrome
> >>>> >and
> >>>> >Tool Bar as well as McAfee Security Scan Plus. A lot of people have
> >>>> >been
> >>>> >complaining that the check boxes on the Flash Player download page to
> >>>> >unselect the installation of Google Chrome or McAfee Security Scan
> >>>> >Plus,
> >>>> >which are checked by default are either totally inaccessible or
> >>>> >uncheckable
> >>>> >, regardless of which screen reader is used. Other people have
> >>>> >reported
> >>
> >>>> >that
> >>>> >the Adobe web site is so inaccessible, that they can't install Flash
> >>>> >Player
> >>>> >at all without sighted help. This is not an insignificant problem, in
> >>>> >view
> >>>> >of the fact that updates to Flash Player are released pretty
> >>>> >frequently
> >>>> >and
> >>>> >need to be installed to patch security flaws in this highly-vulnerable
> >>>> >program, which is used by many web sites, including the popular
> >>>> >Youtube.com.
> >>>> >Can anything be done to force Adobe to make the download page for
> >>>> >Flash
> >>>> >Player more accessible for us blind computer users. Must we be forced
> >>>> >to
> >>>> >install unwanted software because there is no accessible means of
> >>>> >unselecting
> >>>> >it? Is there anything the NFB can do , such as taking legal action
> >>>> >against
> >>>> >Adobe to force it to make its Flash Player web site more blind
> >>>> >friendly?
> >>>> >Thanks for any feedback.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >Gerald
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
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jude <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
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