[gui-talk] A glitch in the righteous posture? (was ReadingRights Coalition Denounces Random House)

Fri May 22 17:24:35 UTC 2009

Coffee is bad for headaches. LOL!
Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 8:19 AM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] A glitch in the righteous posture? (was
ReadingRights Coalition Denounces Random House)

Dave,

I have just woken up with a major headache and am sipping my way through
a first mug of coffee, so I'm not sure I can respond as coherently to
your explanation as I'd like to. But I'll take a chance with saying
that there's something in the logic of it that seems oddly like a case
of apples and oranges. The copyright issue seems to be about something
novel (the Kindle and other e reader devices) and not related to any
other aspects of blind exceptions to copyright law. Through which we
already have the right to have NLS recorded books without anyone being
in violation of a book's copyright protection or having to pay a fee for
the privilege of recording it for those unable to read print.

As for commercial recorded books, we already have them, on CD and audio
files such as those sold by audible.com, and there's no hassle about
those, as recording rights are bought when they're produced. Now, I
would not mind if . audible books all had markers in them that pertained
to useful divisions like chapters rather than arbitrary sectioning-- a
precious few audible books actually have chapter markers, which makes me
pathetically grateful since someone taught me how to jump among them on
my Sansa M230-- and I wish the portable CD players and the.mp3 players
could navigate these files at least minimally. Like by chapter. But
nobody's going after the Sony Discman or the multitude of .mp3 players
that are deemed audible ready by audible. It's a wonder that I was able
to be taught a rudimentary way to navigate my Sansa even so, by one
person on the blind Audible list combined with the on site (hah! I mean
3-D) assistance of a stalwart sighted friend who teaches me to use many
of the devices around my home by touch and memory.

I'm just rambling, I'm afraid. But buried in here is a real question
about the copyright issue. Leaving blind users out of it for the moment,
it has sounded to me as if the basic problem is that Amazon, seemingly
thinking themselves exempt from the usual business model where a
publisher has to sell the rights for audio in order for a book to be
recorded, thinks that because they're accomplishing this with
synthesized speech instead of using human readers,, they don't have to
mess with the licensing arrangements. If it weren't for their
synthesized  speech thing,they'd have to pay the publishers for the
right to sell recorded editions of books. I'm sure they felt this was
clever of them, but we see that it's caused an uproar, understandable.
But my first impression, and still my impression, that however
unfortunate this is for blind readers, and that the blind should indeed
protest, it's the publishers and authors who are getting shaftted
fundamentally, and why the NFB is lobbying for *them* to shut up, lie
down and take it like good soldiers for the sake of the disabled is a
little confusing to me. It seems to me that Amazon has invented a new
scenario because of being able to use synthesized speech, and they
shouldn't get away with it for free. I guess I can't see all the way
down the line to where it's supposedly a problem between the blind and
American copyright law. I think a lot of steps are being skipped.

But maybe that's just me. Maybe I simply never have had enough coffee to
raise my consciousness to the point it needs to be to get the logic of
this.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 2:56 AM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] A glitch in the righteous posture? (was Reading
Rights Coalition Denounces Random House)

Joel:  I would say there are three reasons for the protest.  First,
there are groups in the Reading Rights Coalition who are directly
impacted now -- persons with disabilities besides blindness.  Secondly,
it is my understanding that Amazon has said that they intend to make the
device accessible to blind persons at some point, so we are working for
the future, and third, I think we are trying to stop something by the
authors before something worse happens.  If we loose the right to use
text to speech here -- what is next?

Dave

At 11:00 AM 5/21/2009, you wrote:
>I have seen a lot of discussion on this issue about the Amazon Kindle 
>and the juggling of copyright law in regard to speech output. I don't 
>wish to address the legal issues, either from the copyright side or the
ADA side.
>But what I do wonder, repeatedly, is what all this can matter, 
>practically speaking, for someone like me lacking central (macular) 
>vision or totally blind, as the controls that allow use of this device 
>are said to be inaccessible, I believe because they're touch-screen 
>controls and not mechanical buttons whose use can be memorized by an 
>enterprising person with a little help from a sighted tutor, meaning a 
>friend who will patiently teach the skill.
>
>For whose benefit is protest being made at this point? The partially 
>sighted who can read visually given enough text size and contrast, but 
>who for some reason can't locate and identify the control buttons? if 
>so, I can say fine, no problem. But If the stated objection is without 
>regard to the possible ironies and contradictions and, as such, is 
>actually just a first step in an anticipated battle to inspire yet a 
>further upgrade to the Kindle that will, this time, include 
>blind-operable controls, that too I could understand.
>Hassle them about the copyright thing first, then, while they're busy 
>fighting the NFB over that, hit them with the control inaccessibility 
>thing.
>Never having been entirely serious about the copyright issue while it 
>was still moot for practical reasons to do with nonoperability.
>
>Personally, if I were to purchase a Kindle, I'd have to do all my 
>reading on it aided by a sighted person who could change the page 
>display for me, like the page turner who stands beside the bench of a 
>concert pianist as the pianist plays from his or her score. This isn't 
>practical for me, as I have neither a slave or a paid assistant. So I 
>continue to buy my commercial recorded books from audible. com and play

>the files either on my computer with the Jaws-friendly Audible Manager 
>software or on my .mp3 player, which required two people, one blind via

>email and a second sighted and here with me, to teach me how to use 
>well enough despite the unit's reliance on a menu window.
>
>I hope I've posed this seeming contradiction clearly enough.
>
>thanks.
>
>
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