[gui-talk] One number to ring them all
Nimer
nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
Mon Mar 16 13:33:13 UTC 2009
I will also look at AOL's mail page.
Thanks
Nimer J
albert griffith wrote:
> When I have the time to take I'll look at the AOL mail page. It's now
> keyboard driven where none of the others can say that.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Nimer
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:51 AM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>
> Hello,
> While it is true that access keys are not present in the html view, the
> information is presented in a more accessible format, IE links instead
> of graphics, etc. Some of the features are not there, but being able to
> check emails is easily done using this layout. Not every site out there
> has accessibility hotkeys, and indeed,, not every screen reader permits
> these access keys to be used. I understand what you're getting at
> though, and outlook express works. As long as you have found your own
> solution that works, then it doesn't matter how you get there in the end.
>
> Thanks
> Nimer J
>
> Joel Deutsch wrote:
>
>> hi Nimer,
>>
>> I can tell you that I know. So does Albert, probably. I understand that
>>
> you
>
>> believe the HTML view of the page allows for easier screen reader
>>
> navigation
>
>> and accessibility, but actually it doesn't, and it denies you the ability
>>
> to
>
>> use the shortcut key commands. So to use Gmail with a screen reader
>>
> requires
>
>> some good workaround savvy. I'm not familiar with the other programs you
>> mention using. I just use outlook express for email and a telephone for
>> phone calls. It's okay. honest.
>>
>> Joel
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nimer"<nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List"<gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>>
>>
>> I am not sure if you guys know, but there is a basic html link on the
>> gmail site that makes it a little bit more usable. I personally don't
>> hop on the site, preferring instead to use seamonkey and IMAP, but if I
>> did, I would definitely use the basic html interface.
>>
>> Thanks
>> nimer J
>>
>> On 15/03/09 19:51, Joel Deutsch wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I know. I mean I know that's why the shortcuts make a lot of things
>>> possible
>>> that would be too much trouble, otherwise, even though I pride myself,
>>> somewhat absurdly, I guess, on taking the time to explore interfaces and
>>> menus and so forth before getting hooked on short cuts. So if I were
>>> thinking more screen-reader-clearly, I'd probably have to conclude that
>>> the
>>> problem really does boil down to what you say about hotkeys. I mean
>>> shortcuts. if they don't work,we're kind of sdrewed at this site. At
>>>
> least
>
>>> I
>>> feel I am, and believe me, I know I'm a dummy sometimes but I found a
>>>
> page
>
>>> on Fred's Head about how to syncrhonize the gmail with my Outlook Express
>>> using the POP server, and followed everything step by step, but that did
>>> not
>>> work right and neither can I traverse the gmail pages and feel like I
>>>
> know
>
>>> what I'm doing. Now, I know a lot of screen reader people do use gmail,
>>> and
>>> I don't know how they deal with it. But for me, I just don't have any
>>>
> more
>
>>> time for it, just to get a purple heart from some organization for
>>>
> perfect
>
>>> self-sufficiency despite losing my mind in the process. I've just gotta
>>> let
>>> it go.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "albert griffith"<albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'"<gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:31 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>>>
>>>
>>> I won't be using it either. For most of us navigating web sites is
>>> problematic and that's why the shortcuts.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:09 PM
>>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>>>
>>> okay. Well, my problem with Gmail wasn't about keyboard shortcuts. I
>>>
> never
>
>>> got that far. I was just trying to use it straight up and didn't care
>>> about
>>> that convenience yet. or the lack of it. I just had too hard a time
>>> figuring
>>>
>>> out the layout of the pages, understanding how to get from message to
>>> message, not sure why all the links that Jaws announced as "this page"
>>> links
>>>
>>> seemed to actually be opening another page when I clicked on them, and a
>>> million things. I spent hours trying to acclimate myself to the
>>>
> landscape,
>
>>> so to speak. And managed to figure out only a couple of things. You
>>> wouldn't
>>>
>>> even want to hear how many years of being an Amazon shopper it took me to
>>> learn how to skip around an Amazon Web page of this sort or another and
>>> find
>>>
>>> the page elements and controls I needed, although I'm glad I've hung in
>>> there because I've visited that supposedly screen reader friendly version
>>> of
>>>
>>> the Amazon site and find it seriously inadequate in a number of ways.
>>>
>>> But Gmail, I did give it a try but finally gave up. I didn't really need
>>>
> a
>
>>> gmail address, just wanted to have one to have one. I mean, say I wanted
>>> to
>>> subscribe to an email list and flame people and remain incognito. Just
>>> kidding. But anyway, I don't really understand everything about your
>>> obviously pretty good explanation below, and it all sounds pretty
>>> complicated to me. Plus I don't make many long distance calls on my land
>>> line, already get the cheapest blind monthly rate, don't have much a
>>> problem
>>>
>>> with voice mail or anything else, and am only annoyed by the occasional
>>> call
>>>
>>> from a marketing boiler room operation that chooses to disregard the
>>> National Do Not Call list. So I guess I'll just set aside my curiosity
>>> about
>>>
>>> this obviously nifty and innovative set of services. For now, at least.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "albert griffith"<albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'"<gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:31 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>>>
>>>
>>> You're not the only one who finds Gmail difficult to use.
>>> While they have a full complement of short cuts jaws won't work in the
>>> mode
>>> Google requires to display them. I reread the article and most features
>>> can
>>> be accessed via phone, however, you would have to access the in box and
>>> address book from the web. Now that the web navigation keys for jaws are
>>> more robust it won't be difficult because you won't be covering the vast
>>> amount of real-estate needed to handle quantities of messages. With
>>>
> those
>
>>> limitations in mind you would be able to hear mail messages, access the
>>> answering machine, accept phone calls and call conference style. You
>>> could
>>> also integrate calls from your home and cell phones plus make real cheap
>>> long distance calls. At a minimum this will allow users to scale their
>>> land
>>> line services back to their minimums saving many quite a bit of cash. I
>>> particularly like two features: never having to hear from another
>>> telemarketer and the ability to assign a different greeting to each of my
>>> contacts. P.S. I think I'll enjoy the ability to record conversations
>>> I'm
>>> having. This will make driving directions and appointment information
>>> easier to capture. Now that AOL has used this accessibility tool kit to
>>> develop keyboard shortcuts for their e-mail program Google will do the
>>> same.
>>> They might use the same short cuts. I hope others reading the article
>>> will
>>> have more input.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:58 PM
>>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>>>
>>> Albert,
>>>
>>> I was wondering the same thing as the lister to whom you're responding.
>>>
> In
>
>>> my case, my question would be, does anyone have an idea whether the
>>> controls
>>>
>>> for all this would be easy to use with Jaws? By the way, I'm speaking as
>>> someone who doesn't bother using my one gmail account because even though
>>> I
>>> took a lot of time to learn the interface, and I know other screen reader
>>> users do all right with it, I just could not get comfortable or skillful
>>> with it, myself. So I figure that if you're good with Jaws or another
>>> screen
>>>
>>> reader when using Google Mail or Gmail, this stuff will be manageable,
>>> too.
>>> if I understand David Pogue's description of the service interface
>>> correctly.
>>>
>>> But what do you mean by answering that it ought to be accessible because
>>> it's all tied to your phone? Do you mean the whole function works through
>>> the keypad of either your land line or your cell phone, or both? Did I
>>> miss
>>> that? The star key and so forth? Because so much of Pogue's explanation
>>> was
>>> about how you could manage your voice mail and text messages online. In
>>> fact, I was left with the understanding that if you signed up for this,
>>> you
>>> could never again just use your land line's answering machine or your
>>>
> cell
>
>>> phone's voice mail in the normal way. I think I am a little confused.
>>>
>>> Please explain more if you have the time and patience.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Joel
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "albert griffith"<albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'"<gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:57 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>>>
>>>
>>> Since it's controlled by your phone I don't expect problems.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Bill Spiry
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 11:27 AM
>>> To: 'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>>>
>>> How's the accessibility going to be with this service? Anyone have a
>>>
> sense
>
>>> of that yets?
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Sherri
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 5:26 AM
>>> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>>>
>>> This sounds great!
>>> Tech Update of the N Y Times, Washington Post, and MIT's Tech Review
>>> State of the Art
>>>
>>> One Number to Ring Them All
>>>
>>> By DAVID POGUE
>>>
>>> If Google search revolutionized the Web, and Gmail revolutionized
>>> free e-mail, then one thing's for sure: Google Voice, unveiled
>>> Thursday, will revolutionize telephones.
>>>
>>> It unifies your phone numbers, transcribes your voice mail,
>>>
> blocks
>
>>> telemarketers and elevates [10]text messages to first-class
>>> communication citizens. And that's just the warm-up.
>>>
>>> Google Voice began life in 2005 as something called GrandCentral.
>>> It
>>> was, in its own way, revolutionary.
>>>
>>> It was intended to solve the headaches of having more than one
>>> phone
>>> number (home, work, cellphone and so on): Having to check
>>>
> multiple
>
>>> answering machines. Missing calls when people try to reach you on
>>> your
>>> cell when you're at home (or the other way around). Sending
>>>
> around
>
>>> e-mail at work that says, "On Thursday from 5 to 8:30, I'll be on
>>> my
>>> cell; for the rest of the weekend, call me at home." And having
>>>
> to
>
>>> change phone numbers when you switched jobs or cities.
>>>
>>> GrandCentral's solution was to offer you a new, single, unified
>>> phone
>>> number, in an area code of your choice. Whenever somebody dialed
>>> your
>>> uni-number, all of your phones rang at once.
>>>
>>> No longer did people have to track you down by dialing multiple
>>> numbers; no matter where you were, your uni-number found you. And
>>> all
>>> voice mail messages landed in a single voice mail box, on the
>>>
> Web.
>
>>> (You
>>> could also dial in to hear them as usual.)
>>>
>>> On the Web, you could play back your messages or even download
>>>
> them
>
>>> as
>>> audio files to preserve for posterity. You could even ask to be
>>> notified of new voice mail by e-mail.
>>>
>>> But wait, there was more. Each time you answered a call, while
>>>
> the
>
>>> caller was still hearing "one ringy-dingy, two ringy-dingies,"
>>>
> you
>
>>> heard a recording offering four ways to handle the call: "Press 1
>>> to
>>> accept, 2 to send to voice mail, 3 to listen in on voice mail, or
>>>
> 4
>
>>> to
>>> accept and record the call." If you pressed 3, the call went
>>> directly
>>> to voice mail, but you could listen in. If you felt that the
>>>
> caller
>
>>> deserved your immediate attention, you could press * to pick up
>>>
> and
>
>>> join the call. This subtle feature saved time, conserved cellular
>>> minutes and, in certain cases, avoided a great deal of
>>> interpersonal
>>> conflict.
>>>
>>> GrandCentral also let you record a different voice mail greeting
>>> for
>>> each person in your address book: "Hey, dollface, leave me a
>>>
> sweet
>
>>> nothing" for your love interest, "Hi, boss, I'm out making us
>>>
> both
>
>>> some
>>> money" for your employer.
>>>
>>> You could also specify which phones would ring when certain
>>>
> people
>
>>> called. (For the really annoying people in your life, you could
>>> even
>>> tell GrandCentral to answer with the classic, three-tone "The
>>> number
>>> you have dialed is no longer in service" message.)
>>>
>>> Also very cool: Any time during a call, you could press the * key
>>> to
>>> make all of your phones ring again, so that you could pick up on
>>>
> a
>
>>> different phone in midcall. If you were heading out the door, you
>>> could
>>> switch a landline call to your cellphone.
>>>
>>> GrandCentral also offered telemarketing spam filters, off-hour
>>>
> call
>
>>> blocking ("never ring my BlackBerry on weekends"), and a dizzying
>>> number of other functions. For people with complicated lives,
>>> GrandCentral was a breath of fresh air. It felt like a secret
>>>
> power
>
>>> that nobody else had.
>>>
>>> Then, in 2007, Google bought GrandCentral. It stopped accepting
>>>
> new
>
>>> members, ceased any visible work on it, and, apparently, forgot
>>> about
>>> it completely. The early adopters, several hundred thousand of
>>> them,
>>> were able to keep using GrandCentral's features. But as time went
>>> on,
>>> their hearts sank. In January, Salon.com summed it up in an
>>> editorial
>>> called, "Will the Last One to Leave GrandCentral Please Turn Out
>>> the
>>> Lights?"
>>>
>>> As it turns out, the joke was on them. Google was quietly working
>>> on
>>> GrandCentral all along. Starting Thursday, existing GrandCentral
>>> members can upgrade to Google Voice. In a few weeks, after
>>> debugging
>>> the system, Google will open the service to all.
>>>
>>> Google Voice starts with a clean, redesigned Web site that looks
>>> like
>>> an in box, a la Gmail. It maintains all of those original
>>> GrandCentral
>>> features - but more important, introduces four game-changing new
>>> ones.
>>>
>>> FREE VOICE MAIL TRANSCRIPTIONS From now on, you don't have to
>>> listen
>>> to
>>> your messages in order; you don't have to listen to them at all.
>>>
> In
>
>>> seconds, these recordings are converted into typed text. They
>>>
> show
>
>>> up
>>> as e-mail messages or text messages on your cellphone.
>>>
>>> This is huge. It means that you can search, sort, save, forward,
>>> copy
>>> and paste voice mail messages.
>>>
>>> No human effort is involved; it's all done with software. As a
>>> result,
>>> the transcriptions are rarely perfect. For one thing, Google's
>>> software
>>> doesn't seem to have discovered punctuation yet. ("ohh hi it's
>>> michelle
>>> i just wanted to let you know that i really had fun last night
>>>
> and
>
>>> it's
>>> really great to see you okay talk to you later bye bye.")
>>>
>>> There are errors, of course; it's hard enough for people to
>>> understand
>>> cellphone conversations, let alone computers. Cleverly enough,
>>>
> the
>
>>> Web
>>> site displays transcribed words more faintly (light gray) when it
>>> is
>>> less confident about the transcription. Fortunately, it generally
>>> nails
>>> numbers -- phone numbers, arrival times, addresses. And the rest
>>>
> is
>
>>> accurate enough to convey the gist.
>>>
>>> Companies like PhoneTag, Callwave and Spinvox already transcribe
>>> voice
>>> mail, complete with punctuation. They're great, but they cost
>>> money.
>>> Google Voice is free.
>>>
>>> FREE CONFERENCE CALLING Never again will you pay for a conference
>>> call,
>>> or require a special dial-in number, or mess around with access
>>> codes.
>>> All you do is tell your friends to call your GrandCentral at the
>>> specified time -- and boom, you can conference them in as they
>>>
> call
>
>>> you. No charge.
>>>
>>> DIRT-CHEAP INTERNATIONAL CALLS If you dial your own Google Voice
>>> number
>>> from one of your phones, you're offered an option to call
>>>
> overseas
>
>>> at
>>> rates even lower than Skype's (and much lower than your cellphone
>>> company's): 2 cents a minute to France or China, 3 cents to Chile
>>> or
>>> the Czech Republic. Sweet.
>>>
>>> TEXT MESSAGE ORGANIZATION Google Voice's last feature is its most
>>> profound. The old GrandCentral wasn't great with text messages
>>>
> sent
>
>>> to
>>> your uni-number. In fact, it ignored them. They just disappeared.
>>>
>>> Google Voice, however, does the right thing: it sends text
>>>
> messages
>
>>> to
>>> whichever cellphones you want -- even multiple phones
>>> simultaneously.
>>>
>>> Even more important, it collects them in your Web in-box just
>>>
> like
>
>>> e-mail. You can file them, search them and, for the first time in
>>> cellphone history, keep them. They don't vanish forever once your
>>> cellphone gets full.
>>>
>>> You can also reply to them with a click, either with a call or
>>> another
>>> text; your back-and-forths appear online as a conversation.
>>>
>>> Google Voice eliminates some of the annoyances of its
>>>
> predecessor.
>
>>> You
>>> can, if you wish, turn off that "press 1, press 2" option, so
>>>
> when
>
>>> the
>>> phone rings, you can just pick it up and start talking. Google
>>>
> has
>
>>> also
>>> done some Googlish integration; for example, your Gmail and
>>>
> Google
>
>>> Voice address books are the same.
>>>
>>> Nitpicks? Sure. The service has vastly beefed up its selection of
>>> available uni-numbers, but there are still some area codes you
>>> can't
>>> get (212 is especially rare). As a side effect of Google Voice's
>>> ring-all-phones-at-once technology, you sometimes find fragments
>>>
> of
>
>>> Google Voice error recordings on the answering machines of the
>>> phones
>>> you didn't answer. (Solution: make your voice mail greeting at
>>> least
>>> 15
>>> seconds long.) There's a learning curve to all of this, too.
>>>
>>> Still, you can't imagine how much the game changes when you have
>>>
> a
>
>>> single phone number, voice mail transcriptions and nondeleting
>>>
> text
>
>>> messages on every phone. Suddenly, your communications are not
>>>
> only
>
>>> unified, but they're unified everywhere at once -- the cellphone,
>>> the
>>> Web and the e-mail program. And all of it free -- even ad-free.
>>>
>>> There mthe cay be some fallout as a result; I'd hate to be a
>>> company
>>> that
>>> sells voice mail transcription or conferencing calling services
>>> right
>>> about now. But that's life, right? Every now and then, a little
>>> revolution is good for us.
>>>
>>>
>>> E-mail: pogue at nytimes.com
>>>
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--
Nimer M. Jaber
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