[gui-talk] One number to ring them all
Joel Deutsch
jdeutsch at dslextreme.com
Mon Mar 16 03:33:45 UTC 2009
hi Nimer,
I can tell you that I know. So does Albert, probably. I understand that you
believe the HTML view of the page allows for easier screen reader navigation
and accessibility, but actually it doesn't, and it denies you the ability to
use the shortcut key commands. So to use Gmail with a screen reader requires
some good workaround savvy. I'm not familiar with the other programs you
mention using. I just use outlook express for email and a telephone for
phone calls. It's okay. honest.
Joel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nimer" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
I am not sure if you guys know, but there is a basic html link on the
gmail site that makes it a little bit more usable. I personally don't
hop on the site, preferring instead to use seamonkey and IMAP, but if I
did, I would definitely use the basic html interface.
Thanks
nimer J
On 15/03/09 19:51, Joel Deutsch wrote:
> I know. I mean I know that's why the shortcuts make a lot of things
> possible
> that would be too much trouble, otherwise, even though I pride myself,
> somewhat absurdly, I guess, on taking the time to explore interfaces and
> menus and so forth before getting hooked on short cuts. So if I were
> thinking more screen-reader-clearly, I'd probably have to conclude that
> the
> problem really does boil down to what you say about hotkeys. I mean
> shortcuts. if they don't work,we're kind of sdrewed at this site. At least
> I
> feel I am, and believe me, I know I'm a dummy sometimes but I found a page
> on Fred's Head about how to syncrhonize the gmail with my Outlook Express
> using the POP server, and followed everything step by step, but that did
> not
> work right and neither can I traverse the gmail pages and feel like I know
> what I'm doing. Now, I know a lot of screen reader people do use gmail,
> and
> I don't know how they deal with it. But for me, I just don't have any more
> time for it, just to get a purple heart from some organization for perfect
> self-sufficiency despite losing my mind in the process. I've just gotta
> let
> it go.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "albert griffith"<albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'"<gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>
>
> I won't be using it either. For most of us navigating web sites is
> problematic and that's why the shortcuts.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:09 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>
> okay. Well, my problem with Gmail wasn't about keyboard shortcuts. I never
> got that far. I was just trying to use it straight up and didn't care
> about
> that convenience yet. or the lack of it. I just had too hard a time
> figuring
>
> out the layout of the pages, understanding how to get from message to
> message, not sure why all the links that Jaws announced as "this page"
> links
>
> seemed to actually be opening another page when I clicked on them, and a
> million things. I spent hours trying to acclimate myself to the landscape,
> so to speak. And managed to figure out only a couple of things. You
> wouldn't
>
> even want to hear how many years of being an Amazon shopper it took me to
> learn how to skip around an Amazon Web page of this sort or another and
> find
>
> the page elements and controls I needed, although I'm glad I've hung in
> there because I've visited that supposedly screen reader friendly version
> of
>
> the Amazon site and find it seriously inadequate in a number of ways.
>
> But Gmail, I did give it a try but finally gave up. I didn't really need a
> gmail address, just wanted to have one to have one. I mean, say I wanted
> to
> subscribe to an email list and flame people and remain incognito. Just
> kidding. But anyway, I don't really understand everything about your
> obviously pretty good explanation below, and it all sounds pretty
> complicated to me. Plus I don't make many long distance calls on my land
> line, already get the cheapest blind monthly rate, don't have much a
> problem
>
> with voice mail or anything else, and am only annoyed by the occasional
> call
>
> from a marketing boiler room operation that chooses to disregard the
> National Do Not Call list. So I guess I'll just set aside my curiosity
> about
>
> this obviously nifty and innovative set of services. For now, at least.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "albert griffith"<albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'"<gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>
>
> You're not the only one who finds Gmail difficult to use.
> While they have a full complement of short cuts jaws won't work in the
> mode
> Google requires to display them. I reread the article and most features
> can
> be accessed via phone, however, you would have to access the in box and
> address book from the web. Now that the web navigation keys for jaws are
> more robust it won't be difficult because you won't be covering the vast
> amount of real-estate needed to handle quantities of messages. With those
> limitations in mind you would be able to hear mail messages, access the
> answering machine, accept phone calls and call conference style. You
> could
> also integrate calls from your home and cell phones plus make real cheap
> long distance calls. At a minimum this will allow users to scale their
> land
> line services back to their minimums saving many quite a bit of cash. I
> particularly like two features: never having to hear from another
> telemarketer and the ability to assign a different greeting to each of my
> contacts. P.S. I think I'll enjoy the ability to record conversations
> I'm
> having. This will make driving directions and appointment information
> easier to capture. Now that AOL has used this accessibility tool kit to
> develop keyboard shortcuts for their e-mail program Google will do the
> same.
> They might use the same short cuts. I hope others reading the article
> will
> have more input.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Joel Deutsch
> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:58 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>
> Albert,
>
> I was wondering the same thing as the lister to whom you're responding. In
> my case, my question would be, does anyone have an idea whether the
> controls
>
> for all this would be easy to use with Jaws? By the way, I'm speaking as
> someone who doesn't bother using my one gmail account because even though
> I
> took a lot of time to learn the interface, and I know other screen reader
> users do all right with it, I just could not get comfortable or skillful
> with it, myself. So I figure that if you're good with Jaws or another
> screen
>
> reader when using Google Mail or Gmail, this stuff will be manageable,
> too.
> if I understand David Pogue's description of the service interface
> correctly.
>
> But what do you mean by answering that it ought to be accessible because
> it's all tied to your phone? Do you mean the whole function works through
> the keypad of either your land line or your cell phone, or both? Did I
> miss
> that? The star key and so forth? Because so much of Pogue's explanation
> was
> about how you could manage your voice mail and text messages online. In
> fact, I was left with the understanding that if you signed up for this,
> you
> could never again just use your land line's answering machine or your cell
> phone's voice mail in the normal way. I think I am a little confused.
>
> Please explain more if you have the time and patience.
>
> Thanks,
> Joel
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "albert griffith"<albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'"<gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>
>
> Since it's controlled by your phone I don't expect problems.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Bill Spiry
> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 11:27 AM
> To: 'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>
> How's the accessibility going to be with this service? Anyone have a sense
> of that yets?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Sherri
> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 5:26 AM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: [gui-talk] One number to ring them all
>
> This sounds great!
> Tech Update of the N Y Times, Washington Post, and MIT's Tech Review
> State of the Art
>
> One Number to Ring Them All
>
> By DAVID POGUE
>
> If Google search revolutionized the Web, and Gmail revolutionized
> free e-mail, then one thing's for sure: Google Voice, unveiled
> Thursday, will revolutionize telephones.
>
> It unifies your phone numbers, transcribes your voice mail, blocks
> telemarketers and elevates [10]text messages to first-class
> communication citizens. And that's just the warm-up.
>
> Google Voice began life in 2005 as something called GrandCentral.
> It
> was, in its own way, revolutionary.
>
> It was intended to solve the headaches of having more than one
> phone
> number (home, work, cellphone and so on): Having to check multiple
> answering machines. Missing calls when people try to reach you on
> your
> cell when you're at home (or the other way around). Sending around
> e-mail at work that says, "On Thursday from 5 to 8:30, I'll be on
> my
> cell; for the rest of the weekend, call me at home." And having to
> change phone numbers when you switched jobs or cities.
>
> GrandCentral's solution was to offer you a new, single, unified
> phone
> number, in an area code of your choice. Whenever somebody dialed
> your
> uni-number, all of your phones rang at once.
>
> No longer did people have to track you down by dialing multiple
> numbers; no matter where you were, your uni-number found you. And
> all
> voice mail messages landed in a single voice mail box, on the Web.
> (You
> could also dial in to hear them as usual.)
>
> On the Web, you could play back your messages or even download them
> as
> audio files to preserve for posterity. You could even ask to be
> notified of new voice mail by e-mail.
>
> But wait, there was more. Each time you answered a call, while the
> caller was still hearing "one ringy-dingy, two ringy-dingies," you
> heard a recording offering four ways to handle the call: "Press 1
> to
> accept, 2 to send to voice mail, 3 to listen in on voice mail, or 4
> to
> accept and record the call." If you pressed 3, the call went
> directly
> to voice mail, but you could listen in. If you felt that the caller
> deserved your immediate attention, you could press * to pick up and
> join the call. This subtle feature saved time, conserved cellular
> minutes and, in certain cases, avoided a great deal of
> interpersonal
> conflict.
>
> GrandCentral also let you record a different voice mail greeting
> for
> each person in your address book: "Hey, dollface, leave me a sweet
> nothing" for your love interest, "Hi, boss, I'm out making us both
> some
> money" for your employer.
>
> You could also specify which phones would ring when certain people
> called. (For the really annoying people in your life, you could
> even
> tell GrandCentral to answer with the classic, three-tone "The
> number
> you have dialed is no longer in service" message.)
>
> Also very cool: Any time during a call, you could press the * key
> to
> make all of your phones ring again, so that you could pick up on a
> different phone in midcall. If you were heading out the door, you
> could
> switch a landline call to your cellphone.
>
> GrandCentral also offered telemarketing spam filters, off-hour call
> blocking ("never ring my BlackBerry on weekends"), and a dizzying
> number of other functions. For people with complicated lives,
> GrandCentral was a breath of fresh air. It felt like a secret power
> that nobody else had.
>
> Then, in 2007, Google bought GrandCentral. It stopped accepting new
> members, ceased any visible work on it, and, apparently, forgot
> about
> it completely. The early adopters, several hundred thousand of
> them,
> were able to keep using GrandCentral's features. But as time went
> on,
> their hearts sank. In January, Salon.com summed it up in an
> editorial
> called, "Will the Last One to Leave GrandCentral Please Turn Out
> the
> Lights?"
>
> As it turns out, the joke was on them. Google was quietly working
> on
> GrandCentral all along. Starting Thursday, existing GrandCentral
> members can upgrade to Google Voice. In a few weeks, after
> debugging
> the system, Google will open the service to all.
>
> Google Voice starts with a clean, redesigned Web site that looks
> like
> an in box, a la Gmail. It maintains all of those original
> GrandCentral
> features - but more important, introduces four game-changing new
> ones.
>
> FREE VOICE MAIL TRANSCRIPTIONS From now on, you don't have to
> listen
> to
> your messages in order; you don't have to listen to them at all. In
> seconds, these recordings are converted into typed text. They show
> up
> as e-mail messages or text messages on your cellphone.
>
> This is huge. It means that you can search, sort, save, forward,
> copy
> and paste voice mail messages.
>
> No human effort is involved; it's all done with software. As a
> result,
> the transcriptions are rarely perfect. For one thing, Google's
> software
> doesn't seem to have discovered punctuation yet. ("ohh hi it's
> michelle
> i just wanted to let you know that i really had fun last night and
> it's
> really great to see you okay talk to you later bye bye.")
>
> There are errors, of course; it's hard enough for people to
> understand
> cellphone conversations, let alone computers. Cleverly enough, the
> Web
> site displays transcribed words more faintly (light gray) when it
> is
> less confident about the transcription. Fortunately, it generally
> nails
> numbers -- phone numbers, arrival times, addresses. And the rest is
> accurate enough to convey the gist.
>
> Companies like PhoneTag, Callwave and Spinvox already transcribe
> voice
> mail, complete with punctuation. They're great, but they cost
> money.
> Google Voice is free.
>
> FREE CONFERENCE CALLING Never again will you pay for a conference
> call,
> or require a special dial-in number, or mess around with access
> codes.
> All you do is tell your friends to call your GrandCentral at the
> specified time -- and boom, you can conference them in as they call
> you. No charge.
>
> DIRT-CHEAP INTERNATIONAL CALLS If you dial your own Google Voice
> number
> from one of your phones, you're offered an option to call overseas
> at
> rates even lower than Skype's (and much lower than your cellphone
> company's): 2 cents a minute to France or China, 3 cents to Chile
> or
> the Czech Republic. Sweet.
>
> TEXT MESSAGE ORGANIZATION Google Voice's last feature is its most
> profound. The old GrandCentral wasn't great with text messages sent
> to
> your uni-number. In fact, it ignored them. They just disappeared.
>
> Google Voice, however, does the right thing: it sends text messages
> to
> whichever cellphones you want -- even multiple phones
> simultaneously.
>
> Even more important, it collects them in your Web in-box just like
> e-mail. You can file them, search them and, for the first time in
> cellphone history, keep them. They don't vanish forever once your
> cellphone gets full.
>
> You can also reply to them with a click, either with a call or
> another
> text; your back-and-forths appear online as a conversation.
>
> Google Voice eliminates some of the annoyances of its predecessor.
> You
> can, if you wish, turn off that "press 1, press 2" option, so when
> the
> phone rings, you can just pick it up and start talking. Google has
> also
> done some Googlish integration; for example, your Gmail and Google
> Voice address books are the same.
>
> Nitpicks? Sure. The service has vastly beefed up its selection of
> available uni-numbers, but there are still some area codes you
> can't
> get (212 is especially rare). As a side effect of Google Voice's
> ring-all-phones-at-once technology, you sometimes find fragments of
> Google Voice error recordings on the answering machines of the
> phones
> you didn't answer. (Solution: make your voice mail greeting at
> least
> 15
> seconds long.) There's a learning curve to all of this, too.
>
> Still, you can't imagine how much the game changes when you have a
> single phone number, voice mail transcriptions and nondeleting text
> messages on every phone. Suddenly, your communications are not only
> unified, but they're unified everywhere at once -- the cellphone,
> the
> Web and the e-mail program. And all of it free -- even ad-free.
>
> There mthe cay be some fallout as a result; I'd hate to be a
> company
> that
> sells voice mail transcription or conferencing calling services
> right
> about now. But that's life, right? Every now and then, a little
> revolution is good for us.
>
>
> E-mail: pogue at nytimes.com
>
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