[gui-talk] Voiceover

Mike Arrigo n0oxy at charter.net
Sun Jul 26 13:26:39 UTC 2009 

Another great advantage of having the screen reader built in is, it  
allows developers to test for themselves the accessibility of their  
applications.
On Jul 25, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Ray Foret jr wrote:

> You need only walk in to a store selling the Mac and press command f  
> 5 to
> turn on Voice Over and play with it for yourself.
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>
> "Old friend, what are you looking for?  After those many years  
> abroad you
> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your  
> own land"
> George Seferis
>
> Phone or Fax::
> +1 (985) 360-3614
> Cell:
> +1 (985) 791-2938
> e-mail:
> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "albert griffith" <albertgriffith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List'" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>
>
> Hi Ray,  I've yet to read the NFB article but I plan to soon.  We'll  
> benefit
> from all the access points it should illuminate. Do you know if  
> Apple is
> offering their screen reader as a demo anywhere?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk- 
> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:24 PM
> To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>
> Granted, Voice over is well worth serious consideration; but, Kevin,  
> there's
>
> no need to get unpleasant about it.  The NFB's perspective was  
> written from
> a Windows users point of view because that's what most blind  
> computer users
> are familiar with.  Like it or not, this is so.  I always hear Voice  
> Over
> users say "You can't compare the Mac to Windows.".  Fair enough.   
> So, in
> that case, why not truly help us Windows users get to know Voice  
> Over better
>
> instead of just criticizing us just because we do what it is human  
> nature to
>
> do; compare one thing to another.  I grant you that the Mac is worth  
> serious
>
> consideration; and, If I wasn't still paying for this lap top, I would
> indeed very seriously look at Voice Over.  Let me give you an  
> example of how
>
> Voice Over users can be more helpful.  In the NFB article, it is  
> stated that
>
> when you press the space bar to check or uncheck items on a web  
> page, Voice
> Over does not tell you whether an item is checked or unchecked.  I   
> believe
> this is true; however, there is another factor.  The article then  
> goes on to
>
> incorrectly state that there is no way without fumbling around, to  
> determine
>
> whether an item is checked or not.  As I understand it, there is a  
> special
> Voice over key command which is used to check or uncheck items on  
> web pages.
>
> When this key stroke is used, Voice over will tell you at once  
> whether an
> item is checked or unchecked.  Now, it's quite clear to me that the  
> fellow
> reviewing Voice Over for the NFB did not know this fact.  but, I ask  
> you,
> why did not some voice over users help him with the trouble he was  
> having?
> Why did the NFB not seek help from Voice Over users?  Well, I think  
> I can
> answer that one.  He wanted to deal with Voice Over from the stand  
> point of
> a strictly out of the box experience.  IN other words, his logic was  
> this.
> "Let me see what I can learn about Voice Over strictly from the help  
> and
> what ever documentation I can access on my own.".  Fair enough; but,  
> let's
> think a bit.  How many Windows users do you know who rely just on  
> the built
> in help and what documentation they can read on their own?  Well, I  
> sure
> don't know too many myself.  Most Windows users go to one another  
> for help
> and we help each other.  Why, therefore, did the NFB fellow not seek  
> help in
>
> the same way from Mac users?  A fair question I think.  Frankly, I am
> perfectly willing to take a look at Voice over, not so much from the  
> NFB
> stand point; nor from a Voice Over defense point of view.  My look  
> will be
> based a bit on both and I will be wanting to get very objective  
> information.
>
> I don't think I can count on either the NFB or Voice Over devotees  
> to be
> truly objective; and, therefore, the best strategy I can think of is  
> to take
>
> the best of both and make your own decision.
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>
> "Old friend, what are you looking for?  After those many years  
> abroad you
> come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from your  
> own land"
> George Seferis
>
> Phone or Fax::
> +1 (985) 360-3614
> Cell:
> +1 (985) 791-2938
> e-mail:
> rforetjratcomcastdotnet
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Fjelsted" <kfjelsted at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Voiceover
>
>
> VoiceOver is absolutely awesome. A superb resource for reading details
> from a community perspective is http://www.lioncourt.com.
> I thhink that the exciting thing about VoiceOver is that the stars are
> aligned for us. 1) Apple is making record profits and is applying
> resources in support of  VoiceOver access across there entire product
> line including mobile devices. The fact that the NFB technology center
> chooses to publish inaccuracies and propaganda
> which is so misleading must mean that the existing companies like
> Freedom Scientific are running scared and trying to rally resources to
> quash VoiceOver usage. When ever we see established organizations
> becoming defensive it is time to really dig under the covers and ask
> the reasons why. In my opinion every blind person who relies on
> accessibility technology for computers and mobile devices needs to
> look at VoiceOver as well as the other technologies and proactively
> push the envelope so that we can create momentum for transparency. My
> question is, why aren't  all of the vendors  emulating the approach of
> VoiceOver, which is to have built in accessibility to the device out
> of the box without charging extra? WHen I can pay $190 for a cell
> phone that has built in accessibility I find that amazing compared to
> spending money for a cell phone and then having to turn around and buy
> a 3rd party access solution that in many cases only works half baked.
> Not only do I get a cell phone for $190 but I get all the built in
> apps talking clock, calculator, maps, weather forecasting, text
> messaging, address book management, calendaring including syncing with
> other calendars. For years blind people have taken the position that
> touch screens are the enemy and that we can't use them. Yet the IPhone
> with VoiceOver is totally dependent on the touch screen. I do
> everything with the touch screen look at email, update my calendar,
> make phone calls,....   -Kevin Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 10:26 AM,
> tunecollector<tunecollector at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> This subject was discussed when Voiceover first came out but has  
>> anyone
>> used
>> it more intensively since then? Is it ready for prime time? What  
>> are its
>> drawbacks.
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Kevin Fjelsted
> B Harris, Inc.
> http://www.bharrisinc.com
> kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted
> Phone:   612.424.7333 EX. 301
> Direct:  612.424.7332
>
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